DWP claiming from Mum's estate.

[Lincs79]

I lost my mum in Dec 2012.

 

Few weeks back my Aunty (the executor of my mums will) received a letter from the DWP saying they wanted £800 for benefits my mum wasn't entitled too. She replied saying I was dealing with my mums estate. So now I've received the same letter.

 

She was in receipt of DLA. Nobody's called to tell them she was in hospital. She didn't. What with being otherwise occupied by dying of cancer. And I didn't. I honestly didn't know DLA should stop when you're in hospital.

 

Now they want £800 back. They've sent a form for me to fill in saying what my mum had cash wise at the time of her death. A total of £300. And an insurance policy that covered her funeral just about, the £300 I used to pay for flowers for the funeral and food at her wake (I had no income at the time. My carers allowance - which I knew stopped if the person you were caring for was in hospital- had stopped) That all. No other policies etc. Her house was left to me. It's not yet in my name but I live in the house, so no plans to sell. I've filled the form in and sent it back.

 

Does anyone know what happens now? I can't afford to pay this back. I can't afford to pay my own debt (okay I only have one. With Argos and StepChange are helping with that) never mind my late mothers.

 

I'm honestly at my wits end. My only income is ESA. My StepChange budget shows I have £36 per month after bills (Gas. Electricity. Council tax. TV licence etc) are paid for food, toiletries and cleaning stuff.

 

If anyone has any advice I'd be grateful.

[essexmat]

I am sorry to hear your bad news.

 

How long was she in hospital for?

 

Take a look at: http://www.turn2us.org.uk/information__resources/benefits/illness,_injury_and_disability/benefits_and_hospital.aspx

 

Benefits that stop being paid if you go into hospital

 

Payments of Disability Living Allowance (DLA), Personal Independence Payment (PIP) and Attendance Allowance (AA) you get will stop after you have been in hospital for 28 days. If your DLA, PIP or AA payments stop, they will be paid again as soon as you come out of hospital. If you come out of hospital, but have to go back in within 28 days your benefit will stop again as soon as you become a patient.

If you were living in a care home before going into hospital and payment of DLA care component, PIP daily living component or AA had stopped, you will not be paid when you go into hospital. Also after 28 days in hospital payment of the mobility component of DLA or PIP will stop.

If you get the mobility component of DLA or PIP and are using it to buy a car under the Motability scheme; if you lose the allowance during your lease, arrangements will be made for the return of the car. However, you will only pay the cost of the lease until the car is returned, not for the remaining length of the lease. If you paid an Advance Payment , this will be refunded to you on a pro rata basis.

[Lincs79]

Thanks for the reply. Will read the link.

 

She was taken into hospital early July 2012. She was in until October at which point she was home for two weeks, then was taken back in end of October and passed away 1st December 2012 in hospital.

 

They said they received a call telling them she was in hospital on November 23rd. Obviously wouldn't tell me who called.

 

I now realise I should have called and told them she was in hospital. I didn't know that at the time. So I don't dispute she received benefits she shouldn't have. But I've no idea how I'm supposed to pay it back.

[abc123def]

You can make arrangements to pay it back. Given you already have a payment plan with step change, contact them and ask them to adjust down the amount you pay Argos (that is not a priority debt) and set an amount that you can pay back to the DWP. If you are keeping to a stringent income and expenditure plan set up by the CAB or step change then the authotiries are far more likely to accept it. If they went to court for the money, they wouldn't get any more from you than you can pay iyswim. The pressure will be on far more with the DWP though rather than Argos, is there anyone you could borrow the money from and pay them back instead to reduce the stress? Your Aunty? Utlinately, talk about it with step change.

 

This is a very common problem, people not realising that the deceased has been overpayed benefits when they die and they do need to be paid back. If you look at advice plans of dealing with a deceased's estate online you will invariably see on the list checking this, but when you've lost someone so close to you it's difficult to think through the grief.

[MadScouser]

But surely it should be the estate that pays the money back, not the OP personally? therefore as there was little money in the estate, the debt would need to be written off?

[RaeUK]

Quite. I'm under the impression this should be handled by the executor.

[Mr.P]

Yes, the overpayment should be paid back from the estate once assets have been liquidated and before they are distributed to the inheritors. As there is a house involved, there would likely be sufficient equity to cover the DWP debt although it would be unlikely that they would force the sale for a (relatively) trivial amount.

 

abc123def has already given good advice on resolving the issue - I would recommend the OP follows the recommendation.

[speedfreek]

The claim from the DWP is against your late mothers estate ...

 

It then falls on the executor of the estate to distribute the funds left to whoever is owed in a pecking order.

 

Once the estate funds are gone then that's it. You have no personal responsibility for your deceased mums debt nor can recovery action be taken against you as they are not your debts.

 

The thing you need to check is what funds/assets there were in your mums estate, how they were distributed and if it was done correctly.

 

If the funds are not distributed correctly then the executor can be come liable. But this is only for the portion of the estate that was incorrectly allocated to somebody/something else.

 

See here for a bit of info

 

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/2582/#10922

[Lincs79]

StepChange have given me a template to offer Argos £1. So no room to offer less.

 

My mums will was made in the 80's when I was a child. Hence my Aunty being the executor. But I've actually dealt with everything besides filling in the probate forms which she had to do because she's the named executor.

 

I don't have anyone I can borrow money off.

 

I honestly don't know how I'm supposed to cope with this. I have less than £30 a month for food as it is.

 

I never realised how expensive dying is in this country.

 

Thanks to everyone for the replies. I appreciate it.

[Lincs79]

The claim from the DWP is against your late mothers estate ...

 

 

 

It then falls on the executor of the estate to distribute the funds left to whoever is owed in a pecking order.

 

 

 

Once the estate funds are gone then that's it. You have no personal responsibility for your deceased mums debt nor can recovery action be taken against you as they are not your debts.

 

 

 

The thing you need to check is what funds/assets there were in your mums estate, how they were distributed and if it was done correctly.

 

 

 

If the funds are not distributed correctly then the executor can be come liable. But this is only for the portion of the estate that was incorrectly allocated to somebody/something else.

 

 

 

See here for a bit of info

 

 

 

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/2582/#10922

 

 

 

 

I closed all my mums accounts etc. there was just under £300 in her Barclays account. And £40 in her post office account. Plus an insurance policy for £3000. That's it.

 

Funeral was £3119. The rest was used for flowers for the funeral and food at the wake.

 

There were no other assets or money to distribute. Just the house. Which was left to me. Probable came through a few months back but I haven't been to the land registry to change the name yet as I don't have the cash for the fees yet.

[antone]

But surely it should be the estate that pays the money back, not the OP personally? therefore as there was little money in the estate, the debt would need to be written off?

 

It is the estate that is liable, yes. But the fact that there's a house involved somewhat complicates matters.

[speedfreek]

It is the estate that is liable, yes. But the fact that there's a house involved somewhat complicates matters.

 

Well yes and no as it's just an asset.

 

Hence my Aunty being the executor. But I've actually dealt with everything besides filling in the probate forms which she had to do because she's the named executor.

 

Give letter to Aunty and point her to this thread.

 

As you are not the executor of the will then this is a fishing exercise by the DWP as you are not liable.

 

Although your Aunty might not be too impressed if as executor she gets the bill whilst you get the house. So a bit of give n take working together would be advisable to keep everything nice.

 

You need to do 2 things really;

 

1; challenge the DWP to produce a full and complete breakdown of the overpayment debt owed.

 

It's not uncommon for them to get this completely wrong!

 

2, work out who the executor of your mums estate was and if they have dealt with everything properly.

 

Then when No1 is sorted make an agreement between yourselves and stick to it.

 

£800 is really feck all in the big scheme of things and as we're dealing with a house they can't force a sale (well not for that amount) so some hard negotiation between you, your aunty and the DWP is really the order of the day.

[Lincs79]

Well yes and no as it's just an asset.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Give letter to Aunty and point her to this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

As you are not the executor of the will then this is a fishing exercise by the DWP as you are not liable.

 

 

 

 

 

Although your Aunty might not be too impressed if as executor she gets the bill whilst you get the house. So a bit of give n take working together would be advisable to keep everything nice.

 

 

 

 

 

You need to do 2 things really;

 

 

 

 

 

1; challenge the DWP to produce a full and complete breakdown of the overpayment debt owed.

 

 

 

 

 

It's not uncommon for them to get this completely wrong!

 

 

 

 

 

2, work out who the executor of your mums estate was and if they have dealt with everything properly.

 

 

 

 

 

Then when No1 is sorted make an agreement between yourselves and stick to it.

 

 

 

 

 

£800 is really feck all in the big scheme of things and as we're dealing with a house they can't force a sale (well not for that amount) so some hard negotiation between you, your aunty and the DWP is really the order of the day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My Aunty isn't interested. I've seen her once since my mum passed. When we went to the probate office and that was only because I couldn't fill the forms in myself, not being the named executor. Whenever she's received a letter about my mums estate she's just replied saying I'm dealing with it and given them my details. She also doesn't have the internet.

 

 

 

Plus she's a pensioner and not in the best of health herself. So doesn't need the stress.

 

£800 is a massive amount to me.

[Mr.P]

The best thing to do (repeating speedfreak's advice) is to write to the DWP challenging the overpayment and asking how they arrived at the final figure - Head the letter "Request for mandatory reconsideration".

 

They may well have got the figures wrong, but if not, it gives you a little breathing space. When the DWP respond, come back here for further advice.

 

 

Note for others: Just because someone is named as an executor in a will, they do not have to accept the role.

[abc123def]

As the Aunty went and signed the probate forms I expect legally she will be deemed as having accepted the role.

 

Lincs, how long was your Mum in hospital for? She was entitled to DLA for the first 28 days of her stay, any DLA received after that would be an overpayment. DLA is paid in arrears.

 

I read elsewhere that legally the executor is responsible and would need to pay back the money. They could then pursue you for the money through the small claims court. If that is the case then legally the DWP should be pursuing her. Morally of course things are different.

[Lincs79]

She was in hospital from Mid/end July 2012 till 1st December when she passed. Minus two weeks in October when she was home. I don't know the exact date she was taken in to hospital.

[GrahamMcLean]

I wouldn't stress too much. Just state exactly how much money was left when your mother passed away. As it was a relatively little amount it is unlikely they will pursue it. If you had a second property and it looked like you were selling the house they may be interested, but as I assumeit was your home prior I imagine they will just go away.

[Lincs79]

I wouldn't stress too much. Just state exactly how much money was left when your mother passed away. As it was a relatively little amount it is unlikely they will pursue it. If you had a second property and it looked like you were selling the house they may be interested, but as I assumeit was your home prior I imagine they will just go away.

 

 

 

 

Thanks.

 

Yes. It was my home, I was my mums carer.

 

I have no plans to sell. I have ready sent back the form stating all that was left. They ask about insurance policy's etc.

 

All I can do is wait to hear back.

 

Thanks for the advice everyone. I appreciate it.

[Mr.P]

Might I enquire as to what rate your mother was receiving for DLA ?

 

This would enable us to check if the DWP is trying to claim back the correct figure - If I make a couple of assumptions: Middle rate DAL of £54.45, a total of fifteen weeks in hospital, the figure of £800 would be about right, but.... If my assumptions are correct, the DWP have not allowed for the first 28 days in hospital which would reduce the overpayment to under £600. Certainly worth asking for a reconsideration, but wait until they respond to the form that you returned.

[Lincs79]

Might I enquire as to what rate your mother was receiving for DLA

 

This would enable us to check if the DWP is trying to claim back the correct figure - If I make a couple of assumptions: Middle rate DAL of £54.45, a total of fifteen weeks in hospital, the figure of £800 would be about right, but.... If my assumptions are correct, the DWP have not allowed for the first 28 days in hospital which would reduce the overpayment to under £600. Certainly worth asking for a reconsideration, but wait until they respond to the form that you returned.

 

She was on middle rate.

 

When she was diagnosed with cancer she was reassessed and the letter saying she's been upped to high rate arrived a few weeks before she died.

 

 

Actually. You've just reminded me about that letter. It actually in the letter stated the higher rate DLA would start after her release from hospital. So they must have known she was in hospital. I think it actually stated her DLA had stopped too. In the letter asking for repayment they state they didn't know she was in hospital.

[antone]

She was on middle rate.

 

When she was diagnosed with cancer she was reassessed and the letter saying she's been upped to high rate arrived a few weeks before she died.

 

 

Actually. You've just reminded me about that letter. It actually in the letter stated the higher rate DLA would start after her release from hospital. So they must have known she was in hospital. I think it actually stated her DLA had stopped too. In the letter asking for repayment they state they didn't know she was in hospital.

 

If they had been informed she was in hospital but continued to pay DLA after 28 days then there may well be a case that this is "official error" and not recoverable. I'd check through all the letters and other documents you have relating to her claim, with a view to lodging an appeal.

[Lincs79]

Sadly I don't have the letters any more.

 

After she passed and I called to tell them and the pension office that she had passed away I didn't keep the letters.

 

I didn't actually remember that letter until I thought about what rate she was on. What a bloody idiot for not keeping them.

[Consumer dude]

Request all copies with a SAR enclosing the ten pound fee.

[antone]

Request all copies with a SAR enclosing the ten pound fee.

 

No need to enclose the £10 fee when sending a SAR to the DWP.

[Consumer dude]

No need to enclose the £10 fee when sending a SAR to the DWP.

 

Ok, thanks for putting me right..