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    • Hi All, before I start I know there are similar threads of the topic I am raising, and each, of course, has its own unique scenario, which may benefit others. My case is as follows: 1. I saw a gumtree ad on the 16th of Oct 2020 for a Mercedes E220 CDI, priced at 7,500 2. I called the seller and said I will come over on the 17th of Oct 2020 to view. 3. On the 17th of Oct 2020 I went to his place where he is working and viewed the car. He is working for a major car rental company. I checked the car and of course asked the normal things to ask e.g. any insurance write-offs, loans, accidents, etc. The seller said the car is clean etc.no loan, he had a loan but all is paid off etc. and he has the papers. 4. I negotiated the car price to 6,800 because the rims were showing some signs of damage, the rear light had a small burst, cosmetics, etc. I checked all but did not see any sign of damage to the car (it's a black car, the car was a bit dirty, and the sun was already setting in) 5. We agreed on 6,800 and decided to purchase the car. We went into his office, where I paid cash, and also got a Car Sales Invoice with all details of the seller, and a V5C green slip 6. I purchased car insurance and drove off. I asked him about Road Tax and he said Road tax is paid so I have not to worry, just need car insurance. 7. On 18th of Oct 2020 I cleaned the car interior because it was really dirty inside - it took me a few hours so decided to clean the exterior the next day 8. On the 19th of Oct 2020 I went to clean the exterior and after the car was clean I noticed some parts were resprayed. I became a bit suspicious; so on the 19th of Oct 2020 in the eve, I went on the internet and run an HPI check. The outcome from the HPI did not show any accidents, insurance write-off but an outstanding Loan with Moneybarn. At this point, I thought maybe the database is not updated, etc. 9. On the 20th of Oct 2020, morning, things were going through my mind; the seller said the car is clean, no issues, no loan since he settled all etc. but the HPI reports say there is still some outstanding loan. So what I did, I called Moneybarn, and explained the situation, and gave them the contract number as well (since it was displayed on the HPI report). They said they will send me a form by email, but they cannot share any information due to Data Protection (GDPR). fair enough I thought, but what made me boil, they said they OWN the car! So, I took the car and drove to the seller where he is working. I confronted him. He said don't worry, I will handle it, he has no time, he is very busy and bla bla bla. I said what reasons do I have to trust you, you lied, and now you say you still have a debt, etc. So I said I will not leave until he has settled the debt, or repay me my money. I also asked what is outstanding, he said around 7,000. Well, since I confronted him at his workplace he may have felt the heat, he assured he will settle all soon, I said sorry, I need a date, so I said you will settle the debt with Moneybarn by 23 Oct 2020, if not, you will refund me my money. He said Ok he will do it, so I said, since I don't trust you, you will sign a piece of paper, and sign it. On the paper, he wrote "I will clear the debt for the Mercedes by Friday" and signed it. I said I am not happy and added the debt details with contract number, and also a clause that if he fails to settle the debt with Moneybarn by Friday the 23rd of Oct 2020, he will refund me my money, 6,800, and sales of the car Mercedes, license plate, will be void. Also, I said to put an initial on each amendment I made with signature. He did, and I left. 10. On 22 Oct I sent him a message, to remind him to settle the debt by Friday 23 Oct 2020 noontime and also I outlined some legal jargon I had to sent that I received from citizensadvice. 11. On 23 Oct, morning time, I received a message from the seller, he said he will not/cannot refund me the money, not to visit him at his office or place, and that he feels threatened by me. 12. Now, the dilemma/headache; a). I received the form from Moneybarn on the 20th of Oct 2020 and I have to send it back within 7 days b). the seller send me a message he will not refund the money c). is the seller holding the title with Moneybarn or did he also buy and not knowing there is an outstanding loan on it d). did he sent the V5C to DVLA since I have the green slip? e). Shall I fill in the form and sent it to Moneybarn? f). If Moneybarn has all my details they may send someone to repossess the car? 13. I decided, I will not undertake anything yet, because my mind said, go there, confront him, park the car in front of the company since I purchased it there and signed all paperwork in their office, they will call the police, the police will come and surely will not do anything but will force me to remove the car and park somewhere else, record all on camera, take all evidence, sent to Moneybarn and at the same time to the seller's employer (when I asked him to sign a letter he will settle the debt by Friday 23rd of Oct 2020, he used a paper of the car rental company, and on the back, the logo of the rental company is displayed clearly and he may have acted on behalf of the company to sell me the car, after all, I don't know if he holds the title with Moneybarn - well, this is an excuse for me to even sue the car rental company, or blacklist him with the company he is working for since it seems he is some type of manager there and he may have acted in the capacity as a sales person to sell the car to me on behalf the company....). 14. So on the 23rd of Oct 2020, I didn't do anything like described under 13....it's not my style as such I called AWH solicitors, explained all, and they said one person is specialized in dealing with such cases and will call me back after studying my case and inform me if it is something they can fight or not. So they will call me Monday the 26th of Oct 2020. I also said I want to go now and confront the seller, but she said better wait till Monday, and if they can fight the case, they will tell me the next course of action - but my funds are limited and cannot afford a lengthy battle, because if no case against Moneybarn means I will have to sue the seller to the court which will cost me. The car has comprehensive insurance and with all this saga I added on the 20th of Oct 2020 also legal insurance on top. Lengthy story, but I am trying to be as detailed as I can, and yes I should have done an HPI before buying the car, but I am from Holland and car sales work there a bit different, and this is my first time I buy from a private seller. Well, once I have sent the form to Moneybarn, I will park the car in a garage, and at this stage, I am renting a room in a house (there is one more tenant). Since I am from Holland, I am planning a trip within 2 weeks to visit my family and I will drive down with the car and in the meanwhile wait if the solicitor can be of any help. I need some advice though, I am still planning to drive down to the seller on Tuesday after I talked with the solicitor, park the car in front of the company, and confront the seller, and try to record all. I will also try to make him sign a letter that I purchased the car in good faith from him (regardless if he holds the title with Moneybarn or not but at least I purchased in good faith from him). Evidence that I have: 1. Car sales invoice 2. Paper that I made him sign 3. Gumtree ad; I could retract this from google history, but the original add removed from gumtree. At least I can show it was advertised 4. I tried to create a history of past owners, total owners including me are 5. It seems the car was also posted on gumtree before by a company in Essex (I saw on google). The reason for doing this, it is very likely that the seller purchased the car from someone else with an outstanding loan. Since then I read a lot on the internet, so please any advice is welcome to pursue my case, I paid a lot and at least I want my money back. Also what I read so far, Moneybarn is not easy to deal with...thanks in advance for any advice I can use for my case.
    • Hi   I think you need to check not just the serial number but what Meter Point Reference Number (MPRN) as the MPRN is what is registered and energy supplier go off as well as the serial number.   So you need to see what the MPRN is as well as the energy supplier it is registered with.   If you look at this Ofgem link: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/connections-and-moving-home/who-my-gas-or-electricity-supplier   In the above link to do this check it gives a link to:   Find My Supplier: https://www.findmysupplier.energy/webapp/index.html (note you may have to complete a captcha, then input your postcode only and click find my address, when the list comes up click on your exact address, you will then see you actual MPRN and the energy supplier linked to your address)   With the above make sure and take the details of the MPRN and the Energy Supplier, better still take a screenshot/pdf the webpage.   Please let use know if on doing the above it matches your current supplier?  
    • I had exactly the same issues.   Grossly over estimated bills from January onwards.  Despite what they claim, they are effectively taking an interest free loan from their customer base to keep the company in business.   They can dress it up how they like.  It’s irrelevant if they reconcile the bills the following month because they just over bill again thus keeping a rolling interest free loan.   it took two months of constant badgering to be finally moved to a fixed DD.   Once that was done I didn’t care how much they over-estimated by.   I had raised a query with the ombudsman over the billing fiasco and they readied a complaint should I wish to proceed.   I thought everything was sorted until May/June whereby I was allegedly more in debt then I was expecting to the tune of an extra months DD.   On querying it, it transpired that even though I was on a fixed monthly DD, because the bill was generated less than 5 days before the DD was due to be taken they didn’t take the DD.   They offered £5 compensation by way of apology but wanted to take two months DD in June.  I told them where to get off.   With appalling customer service,  bills that you need a Maths degree to follow, and I do have one and still struggled, inability to follow through on any agreements, constant gross over-estimation, the missed DD was the final straw and I proceeded with complaint to ombudsman.   Prior to getting to that stage I had to quote Symbio’s own complaints procedure to them to get any sort of response.   Their final offer to me was £25 goodwill and to waive an exit fee. The offer was derisory given the time it had taken to get things sorted and the continuing ineptitude.  Also, the whole thing has dragged on so long (5 months) I was already in the final 49 days of my contract and therefore there were no exit fees to pay and therefore nothing to waive.   Anyway, upshot is, ombudsman found in my favour.  Ordered an apology and a goodwill payment. Symbio appealed but were told the decision stood.   This week I received the goodwill payment.   I promptly left an honest and truthful review on trustpilot.   The next morning I received an email from Symbio with an apology.   This was followed an hour later with an email from trustpilot saying Symbio had replied to the review.  On reading the response they have accused me of not following procedure and of cyber bullying.   The company is a complete joke.
    • why not simply tell you supplier they have the wrong meter number you been paying for usage , and ofcourse you can view this online too so its not as if you'll owe anything you might get a nice surprise and find you are owed a refund.
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Egg card and Mortimer Clarke CCJ application


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Dear Caggers,

I live in Indonesia, and have done so since 2006.

I had an Egg card taken out in 2000, which fell into arrears in 2008, and despite CCA 78 request the documentation received did not appear to satisfy the four corners rule.

I have made no payments since late 2008,but would have to try and check when this was exactly.

I have written to Egg many times to explain the account is in dispute, but as per many fellow unfortunates, it seems the account has simply been passed to Barclaycard and Marlin Capital, and finally Mortimer Clarke.

On a brief holiday to the UK, I found mail piling up at my flat( rented out) including letters from Mortimer Clarke.

I emailed them on 19th June to explain I do not live in the UK, and the account was in dispute.

I have now received a County Court claim form dated 20th June, asking for 12k credit card arrears and nearly 5k interest.

I intend to acknowledge the service initially, but my questions are:

Should I mount a defence based on the fact that I do not live here, and will be unable to attend court to speak in my defence.

Was Mortimer Clarke able to lodge this claim knowing this..?Unless timing was purely coincidental..

Should I apply for another CCA 78 or SAR, and to whom..EGG or MC..?

What is the current feeling regarding pre 2007 CC agreements-are they unenforceable, as was thought a couple of years ago, when I was last in the UK..

Any advice kindly received, and I will buy a scanner in order to load any copy documents required..

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  • 2 weeks later...

Dear Caggers,

 

I have emailed and sent a CPR letter to Mortimer Clarke with the following response:

' We are currently taking instructions from our client regarding your document request and will come back to you as soon as we can. We can confirm that your account will remain on hold until we are able to respond.

We confirm that our client is willing to agree to an extension of 28 days, for you to file your defence. Pursuant to CPR 15.5(2) please notify the court of the agreement.

We have received the copy letter from Egg dated 22/06/09. We do not believe that this confirms the agreement is unavailable. The letter states that 'enquiries are continuing'.

If you have any further correspondence, please provide us with documentary evidence of this within the next 7 days.

Further, you advise that you are currently residing in Indonesia. Please provide us with documentary evidence of your current residence. We will then refer to our client for further instructions in relation to this matter.'

A couple of questions:

Should I send in my defence regardless of the above...

I believe the agreement does not follow the 'four corners' rule and when I raised a CCA letter to egg in 2009, they raised a DN and a termination whilst also writing to me to say they were still looking for my agreement, and I could report my case to the Ombudsman due to this breach..

I do have a reasonable amount of correspondence from Egg, but am I obliged to show all to MC at this stage?

Am I also required to give my address in Indonesia to MC when they haven't even shown they have a legal right to this information yet?

Please help me, since this is a huge amount of money we are talking of...

Regards

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Give your address to the court ...give them an email address..and yes submit your defence on time irrespective of the above nonsense.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks Andy,

 

Should my defence be that the agreement was terminated by Egg whilst they were searching for my agreement, or that the agreement does not comply with the four corners rule, or that the claimant has not shown they have a legal right to pursue me...or all of the above..?

 

Regards

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Impossible to comment on your defence not knowing anything of the debt or the claim...if you could read and complete the following posting your responses here...then we can take a look.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.-**UPDATED-April-2014**

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks Andy,

 

Date of issue: 20th June

 

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? Please type out their particulars of claim(verbatim) less any identifiable data and round the amounts up/down. I don’t have the document to hand, but willfind it and add the info.

 

What is the value of the claim? Around 12,000 GBP plus 5k interest

 

Has the claimant included section 69 interest(8%)within the total claim or is it shown separate within theParticulars but not added to the debt? Believe separate

 

Is the claim for a current or credit/loan account or mobile phoneaccount? Credit card

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after 2007? Oct 2000

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assignedand it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. I guess debt assigned to Marlin,since they are applying for judgement.

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice ofAssignment? Possibly fromEgg to Barclaycard but do not remember from Barclaycard to Marlin

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Yes, but I had raised a CCA requestfor a copy of my agreement, and at the same time Egg both defaulted andterminated my agreement.

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Defaultsums” – at least once a year ? No

 

Why did you cease payments:- unable to pay at the time, in (Jan ?) 2009

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? Egg failed to provide a copy of any agreement forat least a year. The copy I was eventually sent does not comply with the ‘fourcorners’ rule.

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and makeany attempt to enter into a plan? Originally wrote and explained I was unable tomake payments but Egg went ahead and defaulted me anyway.

 

Regards

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I hope you have completed your acknowledgement of service? Defence is due 22nd JUly.

 

Andy

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I hope you have completed your acknowledgement of service? Defence is due 22nd July.

 

Andy

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Defence ready to go 22nd then ?

We could do with some help from you.

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Hi Andy and Caggers

 

Particulars of claim shown below:

By an agreement between Egg Banking Plc and the Defendant on or around 31.10.2000 "the agreement" Egg agreed to issue the defendant with a credit card upon the terms and conditions set out therein. In breach of the agreement the Defendant failed to make the minimum payments due and the agreement was terminated. the agreement was assigned to the Claimant on 31.01.2013.

The Claimant therefore claims :

1. 12k

2. Interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 namely 5k and continuing until judgement or sooner payment at the rate of 2.73

 

Just drafting my defence now and will post it on CAG before submitting on the Govt portal.

 

Cheers

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Dear All

1. Itis admitted that I the defendant have held an account with Egg. It isdenied that an account was held with Egg under Account NumberXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX which is referredto in a letter from Mortimer Clarke Solicitors dated 19.05.14

2. Thedefendant requested information pertaining to this claim by way of a CPR 31.14request on 02.07.14. The claimanthas failed to respond within the deadline set.

 

3. Without clarification of the claimants claim, the defendant is extremelydisadvantaged and the claimants claim appears to be without merit. Thedefendant asks to be allowed to submit a complete defence should the claimantprovide copies of the original documents he will rely on.

 

4. The particulars of claim are vague and unsubstantiated with regards to theDefendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strictproof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement or contract with theClaimant; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equityto issue a claim.

 

5. As per CivilProcedureRule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that themoney is owed.

 

6. Furthermore, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that theClaimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136and 196 of the Law of Property Act 1925 and Section 82 (a) of the ConsumerCreditAct 1974.

 

7. The claimant has failed to comply with sections 111 AND 1V of the pre actionconduct "practice directions". And the defendant has no knowledge ofthe Claimants assertion that they have complied.

8. For avoidance of doubt,the defendant is unable to plead effectively, or at all, to the particulars ofclaim without furtherclarification/disclosure.

 

9. By reason of thefacts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled tothe relief claimed or any relief.

Hopefully this is enough for now,

 

 

 

Edited by Andyorch
Account number removed
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  • 2 weeks later...

Dear All,

 

A brief update...have received a letter from the Court acknowledging my defence,and stating that the claimant has 28 days or the case will be stayed..

 

I have also CCAd Marlin and will wait to see if they respond within the 12 plus 2...

 

Cheers all

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Well done wellington...now see if they wish to proceed.

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Dear All,I received a letter from the Court acknowledging receipt of my defence dated 22 July.The Court also stated Claimant has 28 days to respond before the case is stayed. I guess with postage time we are now upon that, and I have heard nothing.Mortimer Clarke however have sent a letter to my old address, which fortunately my neighbour found and called me. They also claimed this had been emailed to me, but when I asked for evidence of this, all has gone quiet again.They also claim they are still asking their Client for further instructions, which is hilarious since they are in the same building...Having checked the Govt Portal there is no further action shown, so do I need to:1. Request the stay?2. Will this stop the clock on the 6 year statute barred, since I am getting closer and closer to this, and by March next year it will be statute barred?3. Should I instead insist they put up or shut up, and ask the Court to throw the case out..?As ever, any advice kindly received...Thanks

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Hi.

 

The claim will be automatically stayed. You just have to wait and see, but you can no longer use MCOL.

 

The statue barred clock already stopped on the day the claim was issued so it matters not about next March creeping ever closer. It is no longer SB.

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Thanks Ganymede,I believe the advice is normally to leave sleeping dogs lie, and not request set aside due to some risks involved..do you think this is true in my case?I have also sent a CCA request to Marlin, and expect that to be unanswered as well. Are there any other actions I should be taking at this time, do you think?Many thanks

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Hi, I think you mean "strike out" and not "set aside". That's up to you but probably safer to leave it.

 

It's only just at the 28 days so the Claimant might still be continuing, I'd call the Court to see if they have anything yet.

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