@curryspcworlduk Manufacturers warranties

[sj001]

What's the fault? You realise that software is not covered by any manufacturers warranty, other than to put it back to factory settings. It's sound like you have a software fault that a recovery would fix but you want to know how to fix it without a recovery. Any manufacturer in the world would not support this.

 

What's the problem with the computer?

 

The fault has not been properly diagnosed. PC World's attempts to do so have been a joke. I do not want to start detailing technical issus here as this is the wrong forum.

 

As I have repeatedly tried to make clear, the purpose of this thread is to publicise Dixon's practice of "buying out" manufacturer's warranties, the consequence of which is that customers do not get what they think they have paid for.

[dx100uk]

hey DM.

 

its p'haps me that's popping this of the purpose

 

sj is simply trying to alert people

that through the DSG group

some items purchased might not have recourse toward the manu

as the warranty rights have been purchased.

 

dx

[dx100uk]

The fault has not been properly diagnosed. PC World's attempts to do so have been a joke. I do not want to start detailing technical issus here as this is the wrong forum.

 

As I have repeatedly tried to make clear, the purpose of this thread is to publicise Dixon's practice of "buying out" manufacturer's warranties, the consequence of which is that customers do not get what they think they have paid for.

 

you don't pay for warranties or guarantees

dx

[sj001]

Unless they refuse to fix a mechanical breakdown, I don't think you have any legal basis for a challenge.

 

Again, that is not the point.

The point is that I believed I had a manufacturer's warranty, I do not. Even if I did not have a problem today, and I experienced a definite hardware fault in 6 month's time, I would not be able to use the manufacturer's warranty as it has been denied to me. Furthermore, this could well apply at a time when SOGA was of no longer applicable.

 

This thread is NOT about my specific technical problem, it is about the practice of Dixons Group of buying out manufacturer's warranties.

[sj001]

you don't pay for warranties or guarantees

dx

 

DX, actually you do. You may pay for these separately or as part of the contract of sale if it is part of the description of what is being sold.

[dx100uk]

Again, that is not the point.

The point is that I believed I had a manufacturer's warranty, I do not. Even if I did not have a problem today, and I experienced a definite hardware fault in 6 month's time, I would not be able to use the manufacturer's warranty as it has been denied to me. Furthermore, this could well apply at a time when SOGA was of no longer applicable.

 

This thread is NOT about my specific technical problem, it is about the practice of Dixons Group of buying out manufacturer's warranties.

 

but you wouldn't use the manu warranty before or after 6mts anyway

you are covered by SOGA

the only diff is after 6mts its down to you to provide a report that the fault is XYZ.

 

this is where I find the whole ethos of thread strange.

 

it doesn't matter if the warranty has been bought out by DGS

or if its still with the manu.

 

they could still tell you to go via the retailer under soga.

 

I don't think there are any legal rules that say the manu MUST repair your product

if you demand they do under the warranty.

 

its a sales gimmick

 

the 1st port of call is still toward the retailer under SOGA.

[sj001]

but you wouldn't use the manu warranty before or after 6mts anyway

you are covered by SOGA

the only diff is after 6mts its down to you to provide a report that the fault is XYZ.

 

this is where I find the whole ethos of thread strange.

 

it doesn't matter if the warranty has been bought out by DGS

or if its still with the manu.

 

they could still tell you to go via the retailer under soga.

 

I don't think there are any legal rules that say the manu MUST repair your product

if you demand they do under the warranty.

 

its a sales gimmick

 

the 1st port of call is still toward the retailer under SOGA.

 

 

DX, Again you are wrong and appear to be fixated by SOGAs provisions for product faults. This is not about getting support for problems under SOGA. This is about the additional protection offered by warranties over and above the provisions of SOGA. The relevance of SOGA is in the description of the product (i.e. it is sold with a manufacturer's warranty).

 

The manufacturer's warranty is for 12 months, so yes it could be used after 6 months and it certainly could provide additional protection that was over and above what SOGA provides. It is not just a gimmick, it is a legal contract between the issuer of the warranty and the consumer.

 

And it absolutely does make a difference if it has been bought out. Firstly, the manufacturer has certain expertise, access to parts, experience and knowledge that is not necessarily available to anyone else. Secondly, different organisations have difference competences: Toshiba has previously demonstrated their competence to me; PC World has demonstrated nothing but incompetence to me.

 

In the same way as you might choose to take your car to a garage you trust for repair and to avoid one that you do not trust, the consumer has the right to decide who provides whatever warranty they choose.

 

If I buy from, say, John Lewis, I get a Toshiba warranty and Toshoiba expertise. If I buy from PC World, I am denied Toshiba's expertise and competence. Had I known this, I would not have purchased from PC World. They solicited and obtained my business and my money under false pretences as they failed to disclose the loss of the manufacturer's warranty.

 

The fact is a simple one. Toshiba warranties do not apply to purchases made from Dixons. The consumer is being misled and is not getting what they pay for. That is all that matters.

[Deadyankee]

The fault has not been properly diagnosed. PC World's attempts to do so have been a joke. I do not want to start detailing technical issus here as this is the wrong forum.

 

As I have repeatedly tried to make clear, the purpose of this thread is to publicise Dixon's practice of "buying out" manufacturer's warranties, the consequence of which is that customers do not get what they think they have paid for.

 

So how do know if the fault is down to hardware or software issues? Are you technical yourself?

 

I don't think it matters who sorts the repairs out as long as they do so when required. I believe toshiba actually acredit any third party they let do warranty work for them, so you might find, if you give it a chance, they can sort it for you. That is if the problem is a hardware issue and not software, in which case it matters not who does the warranty work as you aren't covered. Toshiba would charge you for extra software support.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Deadyankee

[Conniff]

You seem to be getting hot under the collar because you are not getting the responses that you want.

 

It has always been the sellers responsibility to deal with a product that has gone wrong and the BMW comparison is nothing like this at all.

 

Sometimes big stores have an arrangement with the manufacturer whereby they request that a product is returned to them for repair.

Whatever you think you have read in some T&Cs, you have misunderstood.

 

A warranty is an 'extra' to the Sale of Goods Act and never has been or will be an instead of, it never takes the place of or over-rides consumer regulation.

 

 

As said above, if you aren't happy, then take it through the court.

[sj001]

So how do know if the fault is down to hardware or software issues? Are you technical yourself?

 

I don't think it matters who sorts the repairs out as long as they do so when required. I believe toshiba actually acredit any third party they let do warranty work for them, so you might find, if you give it a chance, they can sort it for you. That is if the problem is a hardware issue and not software, in which case it matters not who does the warranty work as you aren't covered. Toshiba would charge you for extra software support.

 

Yes, I am technical. Forget about the fault - that is not the point of this thread.

 

It DOES matter who resolves the problem. What would you prefer - a medical insurance policy where you got surgery from a qualified doctor, or one where you got treated by the high street butcher?

[sj001]

You seem to be getting hot under the collar because you are not getting the responses that you want.

 

It has always been the sellers responsibility to deal with a product that has gone wrong and the BMW comparison is nothing like this at all.

 

Sometimes big stores have an arrangement with the manufacturer whereby they request that a product is returned to them for repair.

Whatever you think you have read in some T&Cs, you have misunderstood.

 

A warranty is an 'extra' to the Sale of Goods Act and never has been or will be an instead of, it never takes the place of or over-rides consumer regulation.

 

As said above, if you aren't happy, then take it through the court.

 

I am not asking for advice and I am not asking for responses.

 

The BMW analogy was intended to represent my point about the competence of who would carry out repairs. The difference between an organisation with relevant expertise, technical knowledge, direct access to genuine parts etc vs. an organisation with none of these staffed by, in Dixon's own words, "amateurs".

 

I have most certainly not misunderstood anything in Terms and Conditions. This is because Dixons and knowingly excluded this from their Terms and Conditions.

 

The point you are making about the warranty is exactly what I am saying. It is an extra I was led to believe that I had, but which Dixons denied to their customers.

[Deadyankee]

Of course the fault matters. It matters as to whether it's covered by your warranty or not. If it's a software problem, then even the experts at toshiba wouldn't touch it, so yep, it matters.

 

If you are technical out of interest, why do you need such expertise help?

 

The bottom line is, if the laptop mechanically breaks down, as long as toshiba or pc world fix the breakdown, you are bleating about nothing. If they don't, then you have a point. If it's software, you have no support in either case.

[sj001]

Of course the fault matters. It matters as to whether it's covered by your warranty or not. If it's a software problem, then even the experts at toshiba wouldn't touch it, so yep, it matters.

 

If you are technical out of interest, why do you need such expertise help?

 

The bottom line is, if the laptop mechanically breaks down, as long as toshiba or pc world fix the breakdown, you are bleating about nothing. If they don't, then you have a point. If it's software, you have no support in either case.

 

Please carefully read my responses above and maybe your will see how your response misses the point.

- What matters is what happens if/when a future fault occurs (regardless of my existing fault) - especially if a hardware fault - that is what a warranty is for - it is insurance

- What matters as well is the competence of who might deal with the fault - an expert or an amateur (who might cause considerable unnecessary damage)

 

I do have considerable technical knowledge (25 years) and that is why I can recognise the difference between competent and incompetent diagnostic approaches.

 

Why does who provides the warranty matter?

Imagine a scanario whereby, 11 months after purchase, a fault developed that might be either software or hardware; after diagnosis it turns out to be a memory (hardware) failure. This most likely would not be covered by SOGA, but it would be covered by a warranty. However, it is first necessary to diagnose the fault.

 

Toshiba would use relevant diagnostic techniques allowing them to identify the problem and replace the memory: problem solved, minimal cost and effort.

PC World's approach would be to carry out no analysis whatsoever but instead perform a factory reset (deleting all software, configuration, data etc.) just to see if it fixed the problem. This would neither identify nor solve the problem, but would have cost hundreds of hours of work with associated costs - all completely unnecessarily and all at your expense.

 

Why does a warranty matter?

When I travel, I take out travel insurance. I also make sure the policy provides for treatment by qualified doctors. If I started a year-long journey and discovered after two weeks that the policy I thought I had, which provided for expert medical care, did not actually exist, but had instead been replaced by a policy that only covered for care by back-street butchers. I would take immediate action and not wait until a butcher had amputated my arms and legs to deal with a headache and then complain later.

As I have repeatedly stated, the point of this thread is to publicise this practice by Dixons. It is not about my specific fault and I am not seeking advice or assistance.

 

If you buy from Dixons (Currys/PC World) and think you have the protection of a manufacturer's warranty, or even something as good as a manufacturer's warranty - you are wrong. If you have a problem, you will be denied the support of the experts and will have to rely on amateurs (PC World's own description). Whatever comfort the assurance of a manufacturer's warranty might give you is false.

 

If you're the sort of person who travels without insurance and then complains when things go wrong, then that's your choice and your risk.

If you're the sort of person who takes out insurance and who cares who might deal with any problems, don't buy from Dixons.

 

If you don't care, then fine, you probably travel without insurance and that is your choice to take that risk, but don't complain if you get sick and have to deal with a butcher rather than a doctor.

 

If, however, you do want the assurance of a warranty that will provide expert care in case something goes wrong, then think again before you buy as the assurance you thought you might get from Dixons does not exist - if you want a genuine manufacturer's warranty you need to shop elsewhere.

Edited June 29, 2014 by sj001

[Deadyankee]

I think you've missed the point, if you look at the responses.

[Conniff]

How long have you had the laptop and what is the problem with it ?

 

 

Going by the complaints, not just on this site, Know How don't have a very good reputation and did come bottom of the pile when tested by Which, they failed to find and repair any of the simple faults introduced by Which.

[sj001]

How long have you had the laptop and what is the problem with it ?

 

Going by the complaints, not just on this site, Know How don't have a very good reputation and did come bottom of the pile when tested by Which, they failed to find and repair any of the simple faults introduced by Which.

 

I don't want to go into specifics of the fault as it will likely just attract advice that I do not need and this is not the point of the thread.

 

What you say about KnowHow (that's a misnomer if ever I heard one) back's up my own experience. Some of the comments I have heard from PC World are laughable (e.g. suggesting it is possible to run Microsoft Office on a standalone monitor). It is specifically because I know just how bad they are that I checked that my laptop came with a genuine manufacturer's warranty before I purchased from them. PC World denied me that warranty and failed to disclose that fact. To me, that is dishonest and disreputable and, according to Trading Standards, possibly a criminal offence.

[Deadyankee]

If you don't need advice, what's the problem? Why are you trying to seek it from toshiba?

 

There's no criminal offence here, you are over reacting.

 

Quick question, before you purchased, did you ask them if it came with a toshiba owned warranty or not? Have you asked them if their engineers are toshiba accredited?

[labrat]

Yes, I am technical. Forget about the fault - that is not the point of this thread.

 

It DOES matter who resolves the problem. What would you prefer - a medical insurance policy where you got surgery from a qualified doctor, or one where you got treated by the high street butcher?

 

right if you are technical then im going to be blunt and ask a simple question - what is the fault?

 

if its the basic one of poor wifi signal then you are right a reset wont solve it, update your drivers and live with the fact you have had bad advice

 

if not then do the reset - it solves 99% of software issues, if you dont want to do a reset do a restore and then re-install your apps

 

the issue of farming out warrenties is common if companies can prove they can do repairs at the same or less cost than the manufacturer

[sj001]

If you don't need advice, what's the problem? Why are you trying to seek it from toshiba?

 

There's no criminal offence here, you are over reacting.

 

Quick question, before you purchased, did you ask them if it came with a toshiba owned warranty or not? Have you asked them if their engineers are toshiba accredited?

 

How many times do I need to say that I am just trying to publicise a practice?

 

I did not say there was a crimiinal offence, I said there may be. See post #19. Unless you are a qualified lawyer in possession of all the facts, you cannot determine if an offence has or has not been committed.

 

As to prior to purchase, yes I did check the Toshiba web site which provides a description of the product and this includes the statement that all machines are sold with a manufacturer's warranty. I am entitled to rely upon the manufacturer's description of a product and there is is duty by the seller to advise me of any changes to that description.

 

1. Toshiba should have honoured the warranty (as they publicly offer this but do not exclude purchases made from PC World).

 

2. PC World should have notified me in advance of the change to the description of the product (i.e. that the warranty has been 'bought out'). They did not.

 

3. The product I received was not as described, so contravenes SOGA.

[sj001]

right if you are technical then im going to be blunt and ask a simple question - what is the fault?

 

if its the basic one of poor wifi signal then you are right a reset wont solve it, update your drivers and live with the fact you have had bad advice

 

if not then do the reset - it solves 99% of software issues, if you dont want to do a reset do a restore and then re-install your apps

 

the issue of farming out warrenties is common if companies can prove they can do repairs at the same or less cost than the manufacturer

 

This is the level of technical 'expertise' I would expect from PC World - none! I wonder if you work for PC World?

Besides, I do not need technical advice, especially advice that is irrelevant to both the technical problem and the purpose of this entire thread.

Edited June 30, 2014 by sj001

[Deadyankee]

So it's a software problem.

 

Good luck in court trying to prove that one.

[labrat]

How many times do I need to say that I am just trying to publicise a practice?

 

I did not say there was a crimiinal offence, I said there may be. See post #19. Unless you are a qualified lawyer in possession of all the facts, you cannot determine if an offence has or has not been committed.

 

As to prior to purchase, yes I did check the Toshiba web site which provides a description of the product and this includes the statement that all machines are sold with a manufacturer's warranty. I am entitled to rely upon the manufacturer's description of a product and there is is duty by the seller to advise me of any changes to that description.

 

1. Toshiba should have honoured the warranty (as they publicly offer this but do not exclude purchases made from PC World).

 

2. PC World should have notified me in advance of the change to the description of the product (i.e. that the warranty has been 'bought out'). They did not.

 

3. The product I received was not as described, so contravenes SOGA.

 

 

I'm going to be completely blunt again if you stood up in front of a judge and claim it's not as described as it has no Toshiba warranty u would be laughed out of court

 

You were offered a repair therefore the retailer has filled their duties under the sakes of goods act

[sj001]

So it's a software problem.

 

Good luck in court trying to prove that one.

 

And it is not, in fact, a software problem. Regardless, this is not about the problem and never was. Try reading before posting.

[sj001]

I'm going to be completely blunt again if you stood up in front of a judge and claim it's not as described as it has no Toshiba warranty u would be laughed out of court

 

You were offered a repair therefore the retailer has filled their duties under the sakes of goods act

 

Are you saying it is as described? Are you saying that simply 'offering' a repair (without actually repairing) satisfies SOGA obligations? Are you saying being incompetent is acceptable?

 

What was offered was the unnecessary desctruction of 100 hours of work without any analysis of the fault. I also now know this would not have solved the problem. This was a an amateurish approach (as agreed by Toshiba), would not have solved the fault, would have cost me a lot, and PC World refused to agree to take responsibility for any damage they would have caused.

 

This is about what I believed I had purchased vs I was actually sold - it is not about any fault that occurred.

PC World's dangereous and amateurish attempts to deal with the fault simply demonstrate the vast difference between a Toshiba waranty and a PC World 'warranty'.

Edited June 30, 2014 by sj001

[Conniff]

Toshiba has the following in their warranty:

 

 

TOSHIBA IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR (1) DAMAGE TO OR LOSS OF ANY PROGRAMS, DATA, OR INFORMATION ON THE PRODUCT BEING SERVICED, OR (2) THE RESTORATION OR REINSTALLATION OF ANY PROGRAMS OR DATA OTHER THAN SOFTWARE INSTALLED BY TOSHIBA WHEN THE PRODUCT WAS MANUFACTURED.