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@ oldbill, looks like Collecticarp are out of control, they are becoming very naughty again threatening third parties with losing their goods even if it is a magistrates fine.

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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When this is over, I will complain. My son has been very stupid. I fully understand why bailiffs are involved, and all I ask is a professional and sensible way that he can agree to pay what he owes to get out of this mess. I'm sure they have a difficult job, but shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush. I deal with the public - at times it can be difficult - but I wouldn't get away with lying to them.

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When this is over, I will complain. My son has been very stupid. I fully understand why bailiffs are involved, and all I ask is a professional and sensible way that he can agree to pay what he owes to get out of this mess. I'm sure they have a difficult job, but shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush. I deal with the public - at times it can be difficult - but I wouldn't get away with lying to them.

 

Still doesn't give Collecticarp the right to threaten and misrepresent their powers to you, as in claiming that they can have your property away for anothers debt and you would have to go to court (interpleader which would involve £155 fee plus the £110 sales fee, storage fees the value of the goods they seize into court) to get them back oldbill i'm surel will provide you with detals of how to escalate this if they carry on being silly, just btry to relax as you can sort this out. As you have proofs of ownership and can do a stat dec, they would have the whole thing blow up in their face if they were silly enough to even try to take your goods and push you to interpleader.

We could do with some help from you.

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PhaedraUK,

 

Which HMCTS Area is stated on the letter left by Collectica-ca-ca?

 

It doesn't state the HMCTS area, it just says: Debt Type - HMCTS

 

The client name is "Lincs"

 

The only letter we have is the "removal visit" which was delivered by someone who lives at my son's old address - probably because it was hand delivered by an Enforcement Agent.

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It doesn't state the HMCTS area, it just says: Debt Type - HMCTS

d try the HMCS website :

 

The client name is "Lincs"

 

The only letter we have is the "removal visit" which was delivered by someone who lives at my son's old address - probably because it was hand delivered by an Enforcement Agent.

 

Have you contacted the court that sentenced him? he is potentially vulnerable on income grounds, but sadly under the new rules it is the EA who decides on vulnerability as he is on JSA the court could attach to his benefit, and indeed that would be the best option.

 

Either way for anyone to suggest that they can have your stuff away for his debt is a tissue of lies sadly even under the new rules Bailiffs, oops Enforcement Agents still lie..

We could do with some help from you.

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Have you contacted the court that sentenced him? he is potentially vulnerable on income grounds, but sadly under the new rules it is the EA who decides on vulnerability as he is on JSA the couurt could attach to his benefit, and indeed that would be the best option.

 

Either way for anyone to suggest that they can have your stuff away for his debt is a tissue of lies sadly even under the new rules Bailiffs, oops Enforcement Agents still lie..

I dont know whether we have established whether he is on JSA yet brassy, but this would be the way to go if he is. All the OP would need to do is to tell the court and they should then set this up, the bailiff company should be able to do this also, but I doubt they will as they know they wont get their money quick enough.

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I assumed JSA seanamarts, as OP said son doesn't work in post#5 but marstons would not back off unless court pulled the warrant. Wonder if that bit here about means of the debtor might be useful

 

http://www.taxpayersagainstpoverty.o...-and-bailiffs/

 

As in quoted from the above link:

 

The fines officers in the Magistrates Courts and the bailiffs enforcing fines seem not to know that there is a new law in the Legal Advice Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 that allows them refer cases back to the magistrates when;

1. a person was not in court when fined and has a disproportionate fine

2. there is a change of circumstances after the Magistrates’ original decision

3. there is financial hardship

We could do with some help from you.

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Thats an interesting bit of kitty there brassy, worth the OP to look into.

 

Hope there is something in there to help, as HMCS and EA's seem to be more belligerent and inflexible since the new TCGA came in in April.

We could do with some help from you.

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It doesn't state the HMCTS area, it just says: Debt Type - HMCTS

 

The client name is "Lincs"

 

The only letter we have is the "removal visit" which was delivered by someone who lives at my son's old address - probably because it was hand delivered by an Enforcement Agent.

 

If the court staff continue to be unco-operative, escalation to the HMCTS Lincoln Area Enforcement Team is a possibility. I would only advocate this where there is a likelihood of contracted EAs causing harm or an innocent person suffering unlawful loss of possessions or injustice. The other instance in which I would advocate escalation is where contracted EAs are ignoring statutory provisions and warrant conditions (including attempting to seize third-party goods) and court staff refuse to act.

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If the court staff continue to be unco-operative, escalation to the HMCTS Lincoln Area Enforcement Team is a possibility. I would only advocate this where there is a likelihood of contracted EAs causing harm or an innocent person suffering unlawful loss of possessions or injustice. The other instance in which I would advocate escalation is where contracted EAs are ignoring statutory provisions and warrant conditions (including attempting to seize third-party goods) and court staff refuse to act.

 

Sorry to have only just picked this up.

 

To answer an earlier point first, my son is claiming Jobseeker's Allowance. Therefore, given his circumstances - and after he made a reasonable offer to the Enforcement Agent of £100 immediately to be followed by instalments (which was rejected) - I telephoned the court. They referred me to the Lincoln Enforcement Team who stated they were unable to become involved, and I would need to contact Collectica who were dealing with it. So ..... full circle.

 

Currently, the choice appears to be either settle the debt in full - which he is unable to do - or wait for it to be referred back to the court. I cannot see that there will be any other outcome. I no longer fear the loss of my possessions (thanks to this forum) and my son has little of value, so what other result can there be? This seems a big waste of a court's time, and possibly further fees, when it could all be settled now.

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Onto the link, which is very interesting - thank you for posting it. The problem here is that my son moved without informing anyone. He got a part-time job, which caused problems with his housing benefit and in the end it all got too much for him, and he moved back home. This meant that his fine was no longer being paid from his Jobseeker's. Naturally, he should have started paying it himself, but he didn't, and his problems began. He didn't tell be about his fine, until I found out about the bailiffs - I wish I'd known.

 

So ... the Enforcement Officers were trying to contact him at his old address, and probably issued the warrant as a result of his (perceived) non response, not as a result of ignoring changed circumstances or hardship.

 

There's a moral here regarding heads, sand and burying :-(

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hazving said all that PhaedraUK there is still no excuse for their attitude amd refusal of a reasonable offer of payment. What is also obnoxious and potentially unlawful was their statement both court and collecticarp, that they could have your property away for your sons debt. that is unforgivable, what is also very very naughty was the reference to the new regs under Taking control of Goods Act saying that it allowed them to do that. It is a usual bailiff tactic to get an anxious parent to pay.

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Having read this thread again, including the refusal of the Lincolnshire Area Enforcement Team to intervene - Yes, they can intervene in the circumstances - my instincts tell me that this should be referred to a higher authority. Therefore, I am going to provide the following -

 

[email protected]

 

This is the main email address for the Ministry of Justice. In the Subject Box of your email browser insert "For the attn. of HMCTS Correspondence Complaints and Litigation Unit - URGENT".

 

You will need to include the following details in your email -

 

Your son's full name

His date of birth

Previous home address

Current home address

Court Reference

 

You will need to explain to HMCTS CCLU what has happened, what Collectica are doing and saying and the failure of the court and enforcement teams to observe the Legal Advice Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012. My gut-feeling is that this will be referred to the Head of Criminal Enforcement.

 

Send a letter, containing exactly the same information as the email, to -

 

Correspondence, Complaints and Litigation Unit

H.M. Courts and Tribunals Service

102 Petty France

London

SW1H 9AJ

 

Make sure you send it by Special Delivery so that it arrives the next day and a signature is obtained on delivery.

 

Never have I come across such blatant disregard for the law and the rule of law. I wish you well for a positive outcome PhaedraUK.

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I suppose we can blme it on ill trained staff replacing experienced people as the MOJ close courts and roll out redundancies. Ally that with aggressive enforcement agencies, and there may be trouble ahead. Oops.

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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I suppose we can blme it on ill trained staff replacing experienced people as the MOJ close courts and roll out redundancies. Ally that with aggressive enforcement agencies, and there may be trouble ahead. Oops.

 

I don't think there will be moonlight, dancing or romance, BN, but I can certainly see EAs getting a bloody good hiding if they try to overstep the mark into illegal behaviour. The reality is that an increasing number of people are prepared to push the police out of the way and set up a parallel force of Peace Officers. They have had enough of incompetent, bullish, brutal and corrupt police officers and their civilian support staff singing the "It's a Civil Matter" song and are prepared to do something about it. Those police officers who were made redundant were experienced officers who, like myself, are Old School, where knowledge, commonsense and discretion was the order of the day, not some perverted and twisted political agenda. A number of court staff I have spoken to have admitted, privately, they are becoming increasingly concerned at what is happening and what they are being asked to do.

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Still doesn't give Collecticarp the right to threaten and misrepresent their powers to you, as in claiming that they can have your property away for anothers debt and you would have to go to court (interpleader which would involve £155 fee plus the £110 sales fee, storage fees the value of the goods they seize into court) to get them back oldbill i'm surel will provide you with detals of how to escalate this if they carry on being silly, just btry to relax as you can sort this out. As you have proofs of ownership and can do a stat dec, they would have the whole thing blow up in their face if they were silly enough to even try to take your goods and push you to interpleader.

 

No, I completely agree. We're on the same page, trust me - and I won't let this drop.

 

 

However, as a parent, it's important that I don't allow my son to lose sight of his role in all this. When others behave badly, as they have in this instance, it's easy to forget where something started when feeling, appalled, shocked and angry. I don't want him to be in court again, and need him to learn to face up to responsibility. He's a late (though not hopeless) developer, and I won't always be around to help him. I think that's what I was trying to say (badly!).

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@ old bill

 

I won't quote your entire post. Thank you very much for taking the time to post this. I will definitely be in touch with the Ministry of Justice, although not in quite the same way as originally intended ....

 

We have scraped the money together and paid Collectica. Personally, I was getting puffed up for a fight, but my son was very worried. When I arrived home from work late last night, he sat me down and said that he knew I wanted to do this the "technical" way (I'm not sure what he meant by that!) but it was hanging over his head, and he was worried for me, and knew how horrified I'd be at bailiffs wandering around valuing things. He was also worried about additional fees. I did try and reassure him, but no dice. In addition, my partner has Multiple Sclerosis, and although he works and is as well as can be expected, he's supposed to avoid stress, so people hammering on the door might not be conducive - although, if you asked him he'd probably say it's impossible to avoid stress at the best of times, lol :roll: So ..... between my other son and myself, we put it on a credit card and had done with it.

 

To add insult to injury, even though we paid online at the Collectica website and used my son's account details (to all intents and purposes it was him making the payment), I later received a text from the Enforcement Officer stating that the payment had been received, and "thanks". I don't know why, but this made my blood boil. He clearly assumed that I'd caved in because of his lies, and as he'd hoped, the people who did not owe the debt had paid.

 

Anyway, I shall make a start on a letter to the Ministry of Justice. Fortunately, I have this thread as a time-line - although it's greater purpose was supportive, and informative - I have learnt a lot along the way. Many thanks to all those who contributed. If you would like me to add details of my complaints and responses, I would be happy to do so.

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PhaedraUK,

 

If you get no joy from the MoJ, speak to your MP about pursuing a complaint with the Parliamentary Ombudsman. All complaints to the Parliamentary Ombudsman must be routed through a complainant's MP. Collectica is owned by SERCO who, as many will know, got caught charging the MoJ for tagging people who were in prison or who were dead.

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You should have told the Collictica person that your partner has MS, that renders your family vulnerable, so you could include that in any complaint if you told them about it.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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