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2 PCN's received Grandaughter hopping out car scenario!


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Received 2 PCN's along with 'photos which show my me stopping at a narrow road with traffic island in the middle (alongside zig-zag lines to my left) awaiting parents with children crossing the road which gave me the opportunity for my grandaughter to hop out. According to Bromley Council in answer to my appeal 'This is against the law to allow passenger to get out' ..... funny old world! never heard of this one before, is it true ... gonna have to pay if so....If I further appeal with the adjudicator and lose its double the cost !!!

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I suspect they are correct. Giving way to pedestrians is OK, but if you let a passenger out, you could be deemed to be waiting for your own purposes. Heaven knows why they enforce PCNs in these circumstances, but they can if they so decide.

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Bromley's primary evidence is the videos, which will show the exact circumstances. So it's vital you view the video.

 

If, as you say, you were stationary and were prevented from moving by pedestrians crossing the road you would have a good case at adjudication.

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The contravention alleged is: 99J stopped on a pedestrian crossing and/or crossing area marked by zig-zags

and exemption P includes: A vehicle has to stop to avoid an accident (in this case running down children!!)

 

 

The contravention alleged is not: 99J stopped on a pedestrian crossing and/or crossing area marked by zig-zags and allowing passengers to alight

Therefore the contravention did not occur.

 

Alternatively the contravention may be :48 Stopped in a restricted area outside a school etc.

 

But the same argument applies.

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its photos not video and i'm looking to right to allow parents with kids to cross. as i say its a narrow road anyway and little kids are unpreticable...but will do the same again but she can't hop out..

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Are you sure? This sounds like a postal pcn with two stills from a video recording from a cctv car.

 

If so there should be an associated video available to view (details on the pcn)

 

I'll have a look, it was postal and I had to look at the evidence...'photos but i'll check again

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Here's an example of a Bromley postal pcn:

 

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=13807

 

Is yours the same? If so then Bromley are sailing very close to the wind, since they are only making stills available (which obviously are cherry picked) and are not allowing you to see all the evidence, which you maintain will show that you stopped to allow pedestrians to cross the road.

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Apparently although its come from Bexley Council, Bromley deal with it. my letter is from Bexley council (sent original PCN's back with box filled in for the appeal) although when I looked at the stills just now.....it does say further evidence is held...only just spotted that (not address to go to though) might be a good idea to ring them Monday and see if I can look at this further evidence even though they have rejected my appeal. You might be right they are chancing their arm.

Edited by Mollierose8
added a bit
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Sent original pcn's back with appeal....but having looked at the photos again...it does say just above (which I missed) further evidence can be seen. Will ring them Monday to find out where I can view this evidence.

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http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/3482/part/2/made

 

The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) Representations and Appeals Regulations 2007 say this:

(4) A penalty charge notice served under regulation 10 of the General Regulations must, in addition to the matters required to be included in it under paragraph 2 of the Schedule to those Regulations, include the following information—

 

(e)where the penalty charge notice is served by virtue of regulation 10(1)(a) of the General Regulations (evidence produced by an approved device), the effect of paragraphs (5) and (6).

 

(5) The recipient of a penalty charge notice served by virtue of regulation 10(1)(a) of the General Regulations may, by notice in writing to the enforcement authority, request it—

 

(a)to make available at one of its offices specified by him, free of charge and at a time during normal office hours so specified, for viewing by him or by his representative, the record of the contravention produced by the approved device pursuant to which the penalty charge was imposed; or

 

(b)to provide him, free of charge, with such still images from that record as, in the authority’s opinion, establish the contravention.

 

(6) Where the recipient of the penalty charge notice makes a request under paragraph (5), the enforcement authority shall comply with the request within a reasonable time.

 

 

In other words they must include on the pcn how you can view the video, as well as free stills(which they have done). It's both, not one or the other.

 

Bromley haven't done this and that is procedural impropriety.

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Apparently although its come from Bexley Council, Bromley deal with it. my letter is from Bexley council (sent original PCN's back with box filled in for the appeal) .

 

Now I'm really confused. One boroughs pcn's are not dealt with by another borough. Who issued the ticket?

 

Oh and lesson for the future....never, never send original documents.

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bedonwell road school just an island in the middle narrow road.

 

There's quite a bit of road around the school. The only zigzags I can see which look like the ones you describe are beside one of the school entrances. Since it's not a crossing like a zebra crossing, then stopping to let people cross is not allowed. Of course if they were already in the road and you had no choice, that's different, but you don't describe it that way.

 

Sounds like the faulty wording on the letter might be a stronger lead.

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Since it's not a crossing like a zebra crossing, then stopping to let people cross is not allowed.

It might not be a zebra crossing but there are dropped kerbs either side and a central island, which have been put there specifically to make the road safer for schoolchildren and parents to cross.

 

With a narrow road and presumably children and parents and possibly pushchairs waiting on the central island, I would say that it is not only permissable but desirable to give way and stop.

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With a narrow road and presumably children and parents and possibly pushchairs waiting on the central island, I would say that it is not only permissable but desirable to give way and stop.

 

It might be a nice thing to do if it were not for a big yellow sign stating 'no stopping'.

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