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    • Good evening, My husband and I are looking for some help regarding a faulty car which we have recently purchased from Big Motoring World Enfield. The details are as follows: - Make - Nissan Qashqai 2017 1.2L milage 55,349 miles.  Date purchased -   01/06/2024 Price paid - Deposit £9000, finance £4794 (this includes the 3yr Nissan extended warranty), buyers fee £249.      Total including all fees etc = £ 13794.        Initially, during the test drive, there was no problem with the car at all and this is why my husband bought the car on the day. No problems on the way home from the dealership and up to three days after purchase, the car drove smoothly. However, after day 4, occasionally we would feel a slight shudder during some gear changes (automatic car). Over the next few days these shudders worsened and then on day 5 the car would make very a very loud shudder with every single gear change. It was at this point we contacted Big Motoring World for advice as we are still under the 14 days no questions asked return.  My husband contacted BMW for advice on 06/06/2024 and stated the problems as above. He spoke to a sales person who informed him that he should only take the car to a Nissan dealership (we have now been told that this is false information). We were also promised that a courtesy car would be provided for us after the fault on the car had been identified and confirmed by their mechanic fixing the car. We took the car to the garage that Big Motoring World had told us to go. Upon arrival there we discovered it was a third-party garage, not Nissan. We took the car to the garage on day 9. The mechanic ran a diagnostic test which found no faults, but after the test drove the car and below are his findings...   we scan the car but no faults with the gearbox showing but when I test drove the car it was really juddering and jumping.I spoke to my auto transmission specialist and he said they are very common on these as the CVT belt starts jumping within the box due to pressure loss.  We had this vehicle in for diagnostics for gearbox mate but both the gearbox and battery are faulty.Gearbox supplied and fitted comes to £3500 plus vat   Where we are at now…. My husband spent all of day 10 (11/06/2024) making phone calls between the garage, Warranties2000 and Big Motoring World. He tried, unsuccessfully to find out if the diagnostic reports had been shared between all three. Everyone kept saying the report hadn’t been received and yet the garage assured us it had been sent. Eventually we were told that the courtesy car would be given to us if it was deemed the works to fix the car would take longer than 8 working hours, and that decision would be made after 48hours of receiving the report. Today is day 11 and no decision has been made as nobody is telling us any decisions as people are off sick or on holiday! Today we called the garage and told the mechanic NOT to start any work as we will be returning the car. He said none have been started and we have left the car in his storage as he has deemed the car undrivable. I have sent an email to BMW now formally stating that we want to return the car and I have used the terminology that was suggested.   What can we do next?   Thank you everyone. .  
    • Yes will do thanks Dave, I wonder what will happen at the preliminary hearing no idea what they will ask I assumed once I sent the proof they asked for about my sons condition that I would have just  been given the go ahead to be Litigation friend
    • First the judge will rule on you representing your son, which will be a doddle. After that the full hearing date will be fixed, with WSs exchanged 14 days before. So for the moment just concentrate on getting the right to represent your son.  
    • Thank you, the mediations in a couple of days so hopefully they show up this time. I'll update this thread after how it goes
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Deduction from wages


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Following long term sick I reached the end of my contractual sick pay period last month. As I knew this was ending and I had received no written or verbal confirmation of how the process worked I directly asked the management what pay I would receive in May and June.

 

I was verbally informed my pay ended a few days before the end of May but I would receive a full months pay in May but nothing in June. May payday arrived and I received a normal months pay and a payslip to confirm this.

 

Knowing I had no income for June I requested payment of a considerable amount of outstanding holiday pay from the prior working year. It was agreed this would be paid in my June pay.

 

On receiving my pay for June I discovered that a significant amount had been deducted from my wages. On querying this with payroll I was advised they had overpaid me in May so they decided to recover the wages this month. Payroll stated that my manager should have discussed the overpayment and deduction with me but the manager had made no attempt to do so. I have now been told by payroll it was this manager who authorised the deduction.

 

The manager is well aware that the holiday pay was to be used to cover essential bills and my mortgage so I am very surprised that the manager failed to mention this.

 

My first question is do my employers have a right to make a deduction after telling me I would receive a full months pay for May.

 

The second question is can my employer make a deduction for overpayment without first notifying me or considering my circumstances.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice.

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Easier to answer the second question first. Unfortunately yes, the employer can lawfully recover any salary overpayment without any prior notice to the employee. It isn't exactly 'fair', and is certainly not best practice or conducive to good employee relations, but it is perfectly lawful.

 

The point about your first question though is 'what exactly was the alleged overpayment'? I would certainly challenge the fact that 'X' informed you that you would be paid in full, so why would there have been an overpayment? Did you have anything in writing to the effect that you would receive a full month's pay?

 

So, the answer to Question 1 really depends on exactly what you were told, and whether you can prove it! If not, then it would be deemed that this was a genuine overpayment and the employer is entitled to recover it/ The fact that this leaves you short this month is hugely inconvenient, but the employer would no doubt argue that this is not their problem. You could try to appeal to their better nature I suppose. Challenge the fact that you were assured that you would be paid in the first instance, and if this does not result in the payment being restores, ask whether they might consider recovering it over a longer period perhaps? It may have been that after a period of long term sickness there was a concern over how much longer you would be off and whether this might cause problems in recovering the 'overpayment' at all - if you are now back at work and can make a suitable agreement then they might be sympathetic to your financial needs.

 

Not a huge amount of help, as technically it may be that they have done nothing wrong, although with the manager at least 'misleading' you, one would hope that they will work with you to resolve this. Good luck

Any advice given is done so on the assumption that recipients will also take professional advice where appropriate.

 

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The law

 

Employees and workers are protected from unlawful deductions of wages by section 13 of the Employment Rights Act 1996 (the Act) which prevents employers making deductions unless these are:

 

  • required/authorised by statute,
  • permitted by a provision of the employment contract, or
  • where prior consent has been received from the employee.

Wages are defined in section 27(1) of the Act as any sums payable to the worker in connection with their employment including any fee, bonus, commission, holiday pay or other emolument referable to the worker's employment, whether payable under their contract or otherwise. Whilst other more specific elements such as statutory sick pay are also covered, the majority of payments made by an employer will be caught by this part of the definition.

Recovery

 

Overpayments can occur in a number of ways; genuine payroll errors and miscalculation of bonus/commission schemes to name just a few.

The easiest solution for the employer is if they can rely upon an express provision of the employment contract which permits corrections to be made where sums have been paid in error. However, where this is not available what can an employer do?

Section 14 of the Act provides an exemption to the unlawful deduction regime and permits deductions where there has been an overpayment of wages. This therefore enables an employer to correct any overpayment through the payroll process.

Things to consider

 

Whilst a deduction may be lawful by virtue section 14, employers should exercise caution in relation to the manner in which the deduction is implemented. Although the law imposes no limit in respect of the amount that is to be deducted from any single payment of wages, an overly hasty recovery process, particularly where the amount concerned is significant, could lead to problems.

The employer who fails to acknowledge a mistake and simply proceeds to rely on section 14 to recover without giving notice to the employee could be a breach of the implied term of trust and confidence (entitling the employee to resign and claim constructive dismissal).

An employer should seek to agree the repayment over a period of time and give the individual enough notice to make appropriate arrangements to prepare for the deductions to be made. Employers should not apply a deduction that leaves an individual with insufficient funds for them to be able to satisfy their financial commitments.

Employers should note that this route should not be used to make variations in salary as part of a cost savings exercise. Any unilateral variation in salary by an employer is likely to result in claims for unlawful deductions and/or constructive unfair dismissal.

National minimum wage implications?

 

Perhaps surprisingly, national minimum wage legislation (NMW) permits an employer to make deductions in relation to an accidental overpayment, even in circumstances where the deduction leaves the individual receiving less than the NMW might otherwise permit.

A final word of warning

 

Any employer who seeks to recover funds should note that any unlawful attempt to recover funds will prevent it from taking lawful steps to recover later on. For example, where an employer has made an advance of wages and unlawfully deducts that sum from the last payment following the employee's resignation, it will lose the entitlement to lawfully pursue the same amount at a later date in the civil courts.

Tips for employers

 

 

  • Consider whether there is a clause allowing deductions in the event of a mistaken overpayment?
  • Where this is not available, communicate with the employee as soon as possible to explain that a mistake has been made and agree the deduction with them.
  • Where a mistake has accumulated over a number of years the sums involved are likely to be significant. Consult with the employee to agree a schedule of deductions taking into account the individual's financial obligations and living expenses before making any deductions from future wages.
  • Proceed with caution where there is any potential dispute with the employee as the section 14 exemption from the unlawful deductions regime only applies to genuine overpayments of wages. For example, if the employer is purporting to exercise a claw back clause in the contract in respect of training costs the employee may seek to argue that such a clause is not enforceable.

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Be aware that the "constructive dissmissal" bit will only apply if you are "An Employee" and not a "contractor" AND have 2 years continual service as you would need to enforce through the industrial tribunal

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

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The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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