Dismissed without disaplinary procedures.

[Browt]

Yesterday morning I went to work without a care in the world. I was told by my manager then at 10am that an 'investigation' was being carried out as I had forgotten to lock a loaded vehicle overnight on Friday, thankfully it had been spotted and wasn't actually left unlocked. Then at 4:30 as I was leaving I was told that I had been dismissed and would be paid until the end of the week.

 

I had no meetings (other than the initial 'we're investigating, did you do it chat), no chance to give my side across, and no letter or anything advising of my right to appeal. My manager had given me a sheet of paper to sign earlier in the day and said 'just sign it, it basically says you've been a numpty and you're sorry'. It basically said I admitted I had left the vehicle unlocked and I was sorry, as I had just had the investigation bombshell dropped on me I didn't question it I just signed it. Then at the end of the day again I was asked to sign a hand written paper and told it says I've told you you'll be paid until the end of the week and you're no longer employed by us. To be honest I was so shell shocked I just signed it without reading it.

 

Some information:

I have worked there for 6 months.

I have a contract however disciplinary procedures are outlined in an employee handbook which I wasn't given and when I just went and asked for a copy I was told no.

I know the same thing has happened by other staff members (and the mistake was not picked up until the next day when the vehicle had actually been left unlocked overnight) and they were basically told off, no formal disciplinary action was taken against them.

When I got home last night I checked the jobcentre and found my job already advertised.

 

I have written a letter of appeal and spoke to the HR person who apologised that I was told in the warehouse around other staff members that I had been dismissed and asked me to go back tonight for a meeting with her and the 2 top bosses.

 

I don't want to take them to court I just want my job back. I made a genuine mistake which I held my hands up for immediately however my punishment is much harsher than anyone else has received.

 

Is there anything I can do or say to encourage them to change their minds and overrule the decision? Have they followed procedures correctly?

 

Thanks in advance for any advise.

[rebel11]

Hi Browt

 

It does sound totally out of order. It does look like they have skipped disciplinary protocols. Are you in a Union?

 

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=3558

 

This s the process that should be followed:-

 

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2177

[Browt]

Hi Browt

 

It does sound totally out of order. It does look like they have skipped disciplinary protocols. Are you in a Union?

 

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=3558

 

This s the process that should be followed:-

 

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2177

 

I am not part of a union. Is there anything I should say today during the meeting?

[rebel11]

Hi Browt

 

Read through the first link, compare that to the way that your dismissal was handled, make notes,

 

Explain that other employees have been treated differently in the same circumstances, but you have been treated differently, why?

 

Explain that the error should have resulted in a 'warning' not 'dismissal' providing that their have been no previous disciplinary issues.

 

What time is the meeting?

 

I am not part of a union. Is there anything I should say today during the meeting?

[BazzaS]

Yesterday morning I went to work without a care in the world. I was told by my manager then at 10am that an 'investigation' was being carried out as I had forgotten to lock a loaded vehicle overnight on Friday, thankfully it had been spotted and wasn't actually left unlocked. Then at 4:30 as I was leaving I was told that I had been dismissed and would be paid until the end of the week.

 

I had no meetings (other than the initial 'we're investigating, did you do it chat), no chance to give my side across, and no letter or anything advising of my right to appeal. My manager had given me a sheet of paper to sign earlier in the day and said 'just sign it, it basically says you've been a numpty and you're sorry'. It basically said I admitted I had left the vehicle unlocked and I was sorry, as I had just had the investigation bombshell dropped on me I didn't question it I just signed it. Then at the end of the day again I was asked to sign a hand written paper and told it says I've told you you'll be paid until the end of the week and you're no longer employed by us. To be honest I was so shell shocked I just signed it without reading it.

 

Some information:

I have worked there for 6 months.

I have a contract however disciplinary procedures are outlined in an employee handbook which I wasn't given and when I just went and asked for a copy I was told no.

I know the same thing has happened by other staff members (and the mistake was not picked up until the next day when the vehicle had actually been left unlocked overnight) and they were basically told off, no formal disciplinary action was taken against them.

When I got home last night I checked the jobcentre and found my job already advertised.

 

I have written a letter of appeal and spoke to the HR person who apologised that I was told in the warehouse around other staff members that I had been dismissed and asked me to go back tonight for a meeting with her and the 2 top bosses.

 

I don't want to take them to court I just want my job back. I made a genuine mistake which I held my hands up for immediately however my punishment is much harsher than anyone else has received.

 

Is there anything I can do or say to encourage them to change their minds and overrule the decision? Have they followed procedures correctly?

 

Thanks in advance for any advise.

 

It sounds "out of order" and potentially unfair if others who have made the same error received less sanction.

 

However you face 2 major hurdles :

a) you signed 2 pieces of paper , apparently without reading them. Even if you claimed "shock" for the first, you would then realise you had done so, so it seems odd that you'd do the same later in the day, even in a new episode of "shock"

b) you only having worked there 6 months severely restricts any ET claim you make from being just for unfair dismissal : you'd have to show their actions were also discrimination of some form.

[honeybee13]

Hello there. The employment guys here usually recommend expressing remorse. I think I might try that before arguing about the procedures. ACAS guidelines are advisory rather than mandatory.

 

HB

[rebel11]

I think, once you've been 'dismissed' showing remorse isn't going to work, especially when the opportunity to show remorse had been taken away as there had been no hearings/meetings whatsoever. I don't think the OP will be arguing, but presenting what is the norm in most companies regarding disciplinary procedures, based on ACAS guidelines.

 

Hello there. The employment guys here usually recommend expressing remorse. I think I might try that before arguing about the procedures. ACAS guidelines are advisory rather than mandatory.

 

HB

[Ell-enn]

Unfortunately as you have only six months service you can't claim unfair dismissal - there's not a lot you can do apart from appeal to their better nature.

[Browt]

Hi Browt

 

Read through the first link, compare that to the way that your dismissal was handled, make notes,

 

Explain that other employees have been treated differently in the same circumstances, but you have been treated differently, why?

 

Explain that the error should have resulted in a 'warning' not 'dismissal' providing that their have been no previous disciplinary issues.

 

What time is the meeting?

 

The Meeting is at 5:15 today.

[rebel11]

Did they give you copies of the documents you signed?.

 

You are barred from going to an Employment Tribunal due to how long you've been employed.

 

The Meeting is at 5:15 today.

[Browt]

Did they give you copies of the documents you signed?.

 

You are barred from going to an Employment Tribunal due to how long you've been employed.

 

I sent them a letter today requesting a copy of the original documents I signed yesterday along with a copy of the employee handbook and was just told to come back at 5:15 to see them.

 

I have received nothing in writing from them at all.

[rebel11]

I think they know they have made a mistake in dismissing you in the way you were dismissed. Ordinarily you should have all that information for your appeal.

 

 

I sent them a letter today requesting a copy of the original documents I signed yesterday along with a copy of the employee handbook and was just told to come back at 5:15 to see them.

 

I have received nothing in writing from them at all.

[Ell-enn]

Do you have a contract of employment and if so does it state that their disciplinary procedure is contractual ?

[Browt]

Do you have a contract of employment and if so does it state that their disciplinary procedure is contractual ?

 

I have a contract but it states 'see employee handbook' for disciplinary procedures.

 

I have just had an answer message telling me I not to go in today and they will send me a letter in the post advising if my right to appeal. They had my job advertised before they even told me I was dismissed with no option to appeal.

[Ell-enn]

Unless the disciplinary procedure is a contractual right then they can dismiss with under 2 years service without going through the process.

[rebel11]

That's fine (bit in red).

 

Wait for the letter, they sound very disorganised, maybe they've been on the phone to ACAS to get some advice.

 

I have a contract but it states 'see employee handbook' for disciplinary procedures.

I have just had an answer message telling me I not to go in today and they will send me a letter in the post advising if my right to appeal. They had my job advertised before they even told me I was dismissed with no option to appeal.

[Browt]

Hi Just and update.

 

I had a phone call to tell me that they had cancelled last nights meeting and they would send me the information I requested in the post.

 

Today I received my termination letter, a letter advising me my appeal hearing would be at 10 on Monday, a copy of both documents I signed and a copy of the employee handbook.

 

I am drafting a letter now to advise of my reasons for appeal. I was wondering if someone could look over it and advise me before I send it if I should add, remove or reword anything in it.

 

Thanks

[rebel11]

Yes we can.

[Ell-enn]

Hi, in the employee handbook what does the disciplinary procedure say about contractual rights ? (it may say that the policy does not give contractual rights)

[Browt]

The employee handbook says I have the right to a hearing and an appeal. However there is a paragraph stating that 'short service staff' (ie me) may not be in receipt of any warnings before dismissal but will retain the right to a hearing and the right to appeal.

 

Is there a way to add a copy of my letter to the page or just copy and paste?

[rebel11]

Dx100 – Instructions on uploading pdfs

 

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets

as a picture file

remove all pers info inc barcodes etc using paint

but leave all figures and dates.

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

convert the image to pdf format.

or ir you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

NB:you can set where it goes in the post by hitting insert inline.

the hit reply button

[Browt]

I tried the above and got very confused.

 

Here is my letter:

 

Thank you for your letteroffering me the chance to appeal the decision to terminate my contract.

I would like to give you thereasoning behind my appeal before the appeal hearing on Monday so that you havethe chance to give it consideration.

I agree that it was extremelycareless of me to have left the vehicles unlocked however this is the firsttime this has happened, and I can assure you it will never happen again. Iappreciate that the fact that I was under pressure to load the vehicle alone isnot by any means a reasonable excuse, however it has happened with otheremployees forgetting to lock a loaded vehicle and the mistake was not picked upuntil the following morning. Those employees received no disciplinary action orsanctions other than a telling off by a manager, yet my mistake was noticedafter I had left and the vehicle was thankfully left secure, and I wasdismissed from employment.

I do not feel a fair disciplinaryprocedure has been followed. I was given no warning of the disciplinary and nodisciplinary hearing. I was just told at 10am I was being investigated andasked informally what had happened, and then told my contract had beenterminated as I was leaving that night. I was advised of the termination of mycontract in a public place with my colleagues around.

I was not advised of my right toappeal when I was told I had lost my job, I then find out that my job hadalready been advertised on the job centre website.

I appreciate that by failing tocheck the vehicle was secured I was extremely careless and as previously statedI can guarantee it will never happen again. I am asking you to considerretracting the decision to terminate my employment and consider putting awritten or final warning in place instead.

I really enjoyed working for ##########and would really like the opportunity to prove my competence to you.

[rebel11]

Hi Browt

 

The letter is good, but end it as follows:-

 

I've learnt a lot in my job, I apply myself fully to all the tasks that I undertake etc. xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxx.

 

I'm enthusiastic, determined and committed to succeeding with xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

 

I really enjoyed working for xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and would like the opportunity to succeed with xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx..

 

Hand it into reception so they get it by Monday.