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I will try and keep this as brief as poss but I do tend to waffle on a bit.

 

It all started with my daughter passing her driving test last Thursday 5th June. As you can imagine we were all very proud of her and she was exceptionally excited at buying her own car. Unfortunately she was a bit specific to the make, model and colour of her first car. She wanted a Ford Fiesta 1.4 zetec in black. After searching high and low for the specified vehicle we viewed a black Fiesta on the Sunday at a garage. It was perfect. She took it for a test drive and my husband looked it over. All seemed ok. It came with a full years MOT and was recently serviced. We paid the price of £1850 and arranged for the garage to get the vehicle taxed so we could drive it away on the Monday.

 

The vehicle was a Ford Fiesta on a 53 plate.

 

My daughter and I travelled up to the garage on the Monday. Car was there - garage owner was not. We were told by an associate that he was out getting the tax disc. An hour later the garage owner came back. Unfortunately he said he couldn't get the tax disc and would we mind getting it ourselves. We did at the local post office and went back to the garage and collected the car. Obviously, like most car dealerships, it lacked petrol so we pulled into a petrol station to fill it up and made our way home. My daughter drove the car whilst following behind me.

 

When we got home my daughter said it drove funnily. I took it out for a quick test drive and was shocked at how it pulled to the middle of the road and the steering shook violently. Luckily my daughters boyfriend is a mechanic and checked the vehicle over. It turned out that one of the alloys was broken and there were also a few other faults. I asked my daughter if it was like that when she test drove it. She said no.

 

To cut a long story short, we contacted the dealer and he very nicely offered to repair the vehicle at no cost to us. Unfortunately I have been down this road before with a previous car I bought earlier this year and decided not to accept the offer of repair and to have a full refund. The dealer has agreed to this if we bring the vehicle back with the full log book.

 

The vehicle has had a visual health inspection by a Ford garage and we now know it is not legal to drive on the road as it is unsafe. The dealer is 23 miles away from us.

 

Now to my question.

 

As the vehicle is not road legal do we have to fork out the cost of recovering the vehicle to the garage and also do we have to wait up to 4 weeks for the log book to come through,in my daughters name, before can do this in order to get up full refund?

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Well if the man is offering to do any repairs FOC and you aren't going to let him then I'd say it's up to you to get it back to him.

 

 

TBQH a lot of things can change in 4 weeks, I'd let him repair it instead if I were you.

 

 

But I'm not you so the ball's in your court.....

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Thanks for the reply but unfortunately the repairs would exceed the cost of what we paid for the car. Bearing this in mind I feel that any repair would be sub standard. I need to know if we have to wait until the log book come s back from DVLA, that it is if he has sent his part off, I. Order to get the full refund. Also as he has sold us the vehicle as unroadworthy, should we have to pay for it to be returned.

 

When we viewed the vehicle it wasn't at the premises. He turned up in car stating that he had to put 2 new tyres on the front. These tyres were not new and were part worn tyres. Upon later inspection, one of the tyres was worn below the legal tread thread on the inside.

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Stick to guns and get your money back.

as for recovery charges, you can ask, but if they refuse then you may have to take them to court to get it.

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According to the regulations, rejection must be done by letter, so write by recorded delivery letter quoting what has been said and formally reject the car as not roadworthy.

If the damage can be seen, take pictures of it.

 

 

Give the DVLA a ring tomorrow to see if they have received his part of the V5.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update

 

After a few emails back and forth the garage owner arranged collection of the car between 6pm and 7pm tonight. I checked on Wednesday with him to confirm and he confirmed. It got to approx 7.30 and no sign. I called him and he said he was just chatting with the recovery driver to confirm the details. I called at approx 8.30, a different person said he left an hour ago. I called at 9.45 to be told by the garage owner that he was about to call me to say the recovery truck had broken down.

 

We have now had the car for almost 2 weeks and my daughter is not allowed to drive it due to it being unsafe. I have asked the garage owner to arrange collection this weekend. We have him nearly 2 weeks to arrange this and I think it is only fair that he should arrange this for this weekend. We have the car and he still has our money. Also being a driver that has only just passed her test it is exceptionally expensive to insure a car that she cannot drive. The garage owner said he would call tomorrow but I'm not holding my breath. I did state to him that should we have to recover the vehicle to his premises we will go through the courts to recover the cost. I asked him to call back tomorrow morning to which he hung up on me.

 

I have now sent the following email to him:-

 

Further to my telephone conversation with you earlier, to which you hung up on me, I wish to reiterate that I would like the vehicle collected this weekend and our money refunded, this weekend meaning either tomorrow 28th June 2014 or 29th June 2014. I will stress again that if this is not possible, then we will arrange the recovery of the the vehicle to your premises, to which any cost that we incur will be sought by you through the courts together with the insurance costs that my daughter has had to pay and the loss of one months road fund licence. Also you will have to pay the court cost and the interest of which will be charged on a daily rate until the debt is settled. Please note that we will also include in our court claim the cost of the vehicle. We have now had the vehicle here for nearly 2 weeks since we rejected it to which we have not allowed our daughter to drive it. We gave you up until today, being 27th June, to retrieve the vehicle which I think was only fair. You stated it would be collected between 6pm and 7pm tonight. I had to call three times tonight to check on what was going on, only to be told at just before 9pm that your recovery truck had broken down. I would prefer not to go down the legal route in order to settle this matter and that you show me the courtesy of arranging the pick up of the vehicle this weekend to avoid further costs to both.

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Just phoned the garage owner, again, to ask when the vehicle will be collected. Unfortunately the recovery truck is broken and might not be fixed until this Wednesday. He asked if I could give him until Thursday evening to recover the car and even if it isn't recovered by then he will do a bank transfer for the full cost of the vehicle. I very reluctantly agreed to it. I stressed to him that we need the money back. This car was supposed to be my daughters first car since passing her driving test. I also stated that it was unfair to my daughter to keep paying out for insurance on a vehicle that is just sitting on the driveway. The insurance costs are £150 per month and she had to pay out £300 in advance!!!. He told me to just cancel the insurance!!!!! I was quite shocked at his response.

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This trader is messing you about.. broken down, pay by Thursday, etc.

 

 

You need to have a ride up there and get your money, I don't think he'll pay you as promised.. although I hope he does!

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Hi Conniff. If I was to suspend the insurance, surely that would mean the car would be uninsured. What would happen if something happened to the car and it got damaged?

 

Hi Oddjobbob. I also feel like the trader is messing me about, but what can I do?

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What is making your problem more difficult is the use of the phone and not letter. Do they have an email address you can contact him on ?

If he has agreed to take the car back and you have that in writing, then it is his responsibility to insure it.

 

 

There are also more recovery companies than one.

 

 

You should take control. If you can email, tell him the car is on the road and is his property and you will be cancelling the policy as advised by him

Give the DVLA a ring tomorrow and get the garage named as the new RK. Say the letter is in transit but you want that cancelled as the car is not fit for purpose and ownership has been taken back by the garage.

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I only contacted by phone yesterday evening to find out when he was coming to collect the vehicle, also to find out where he was and the last time was again to find out what was going on. This morning I called him again to ask when he was going to collect the vehicle. Once we had agreed on the collection by this Thursday together with the refund, I emailed him with what we had agreed.

 

He is not prepared to pay another company to recover the car.

 

I've looked on the DVLA site in order to get a refund of the tax disc as I don't want to lose another month. Unfortunately I need the V5 and I don't have this. This is so frustrating. I can't see the trader forking out for the tax disc as well so it looks like I will be losing more money on a vehicle my daughter can't drive.

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Ok, then email again agreeing to Thursday and say that if he fails to collect on Thursday, you will get it delivered and bill him for the cost.

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hope he does stick to what was arranged!

as far as the tax disc goes, you can keep it and give him the choice, he can pay you for it and then can claim the money back from the DVLA.

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Well what a surprise, car still not collected and no money refunded. He won't reply to any emails as he prefers to speak on the phone. Called him this morning and he has gone back on his word about refunding the money today. He says that he will refund the money once he has received the car back. Recovery truck is still out of action so I got my local garage to ring him with a quote of £100 to take the car back to him. Garage owner says it is too much and he will try and find a cheaper recovery firm. Of course this means now the car will not be recovery today as promised last Friday.

 

I contacted the DVLA and informed them of the change RK. They said to write a letter of which I said it was on its way to them. I emailed garage owner to inform him that the insurance for the vehicle has now been cancelled and that I had informed the DVLA of changing the RK to his garage company.

 

During my phone conversation with him this morning I also told him verbally that the car insurance has been cancelled and that he should make sure his insurance covers the vehicle. He informed me that his garage insurance would not cover it as it as not on his premises. I told him that he should get it sorted out. I don't think he believed me when I told him that I had informed the DVLA about the change of RK as he tried to inform me that I would need a form in order to do that.

 

I am now currently have a new drive done at my house and therefore cannot have the offending vehicle on the driveway. I have informed the garage owner that it is now parked on the road. I am now worried that when he eventually gets the car back he will try and say that we have done damage to the vehicle and not refund me the money.

 

Should I do a 7 day letter to him giving more time to recover the vehicle and refund the money or can I go straight for his jugular and issue a court summons?

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Ok, then email again agreeing to Thursday and say that if he fails to collect on Thursday, you will get it delivered and bill him for the cost.

 

No, don't give him any more time, you can't continue to let time run on and on. You have already given notice, now act on that notice. There is no point in making threats if you aren't going to keep to them.

 

It really don't go in your favour that you spoke to him on the phone without recording it.

 

Get the company you have had a quote from to come and collect and deliver back to him. Yes you will have to pay the bill, so get a proper company headed receipt so you can claim it back along with your refund.

 

If you fear he will say the car is damaged, go out now and take lots of photos and if you can get a witness to confirm the condition of the car and get the company who come to lift it to sign the receipt that the car has no damage.

 

Unless you take control, you will get nowhere.

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Agree with C.

Time for action.

Once delivered to him it becomes his responsibility and all yu have to do is concentrate on getting your money back, so start proceedings as well and include delivery charge.

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I keep emailing him over and over again and he doesn't reply. The only way I get to know what is happening is by phoning him. I have asked repeatedly for him to reply to my emails but he just says that he prefers to use the phone. I've now got his mobile so I am going to start texting him. Hopefully he will respond.

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Ive just texted him saying:-

 

Just to let you know I have instructed the recovery company to collect the Fiesta and deliver it to your premises tomorrow. This will cost me £100 of which I intend to recover along with the other costs incurred eg road fund license, insurance, health check etc.

 

 

Surprise, surprise....... He responded with:-

 

That's ok.

 

 

What an arrogant beeeeeeeep beeeeeeeep beeeeeeeep!!!!

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Well today is the day (hopefully) where the vehicle is going to be taken back to the garage. I say hopefully as the recovery driver will be contacting the garage owner to let him know when he will be delivering the car. I have a sneaky feeling that the garage owner may say it is inconvenient today and try and arrange another time and then keep fobbing the recovery driver off for further dates. I will send a text the garage later on this afternoon requesting the money to be refunded today. Hopefully he will comply.

 

Now - on to the claim for the costs I have incurred since buying the vehicle.

 

I will be claiming for the £100 recovery charges, 2 months of road tax, 1 month of insurance costs and the cost of the vehicle health check. Is there anything else?

 

In the POC bit, do I just put down what I am claiming for or do I summarise the whole ordeal? It is quite a long tail. Also do I send off copies of all the emails, the vehicle health check sheet, copy MOT results from the DVLA site with the claim?

 

Thanks in advance for any advice given

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You should keep your Particulars of Claim, brief and factual. The time for expanding on each point is when you submit your witness statement at a later date.

 

I will relocate you to the General Legal forum where you will be noticed by those who will be able to advise further.

 

Purely an administrative move.. you need do nothing and you will still be able to see your thread :)

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The court rules say that you should send a 'letter before action' setting out what you are claiming 14 days before issuing a claim, although this is not very well enforced.

 

In the POC you would just put a very brief summary of the nature of your claim and what you are claiming. The number of words you can use on moneyclaimonline is very limited. Something like:

 

1. The Claimant is a consumer. The Defendant is a motor dealer. The Claimant purchased a Ford Fiesta on xxx.

2. It was an implied term in the contract that the car would be of satisfactory quality and fit for its intended purpose under s14 Sale of Goods Act 1979.

3. In breach of that term, the car [briefly describe the faults].

4. As a result of the breach, the Claimant has suffered the following losses: [briefly describe].

5. The Claimant claims [amount] plus interest and costs.

 

You don't include a lot of detail or all the supporting evidence at this stage.

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Hi steampowered. Thanks for the advice. I did email the garage owner on the 27th June informing him that should I have to pay for the recovery of the vehicle back to the garage, I would instigate a claim against him for the costs. I also stated that I would claim for the other costs eg insurance, road tax. Could this count as a LBA?

 

I paid £100 yesterday to a recovery firm to take the car back to him. Unfortunately I forgot to give back the little green slip (part 10 of the v5) so he is still refusing to refund any money. I did propose that he could withhold £100 of our money until I send the slip back. I even said I would send it recorded delivery and text him the tracking number. He refused this proposal and said that until he has the slip back, he will not refund me anything.

 

The vehicle is now back with him and he has put it back on his website for sale. He texted me stating that:-

 

"I am happy to refund you the full £1850. I do not intend to hold on to £100.*

 

Please send the new keeper slip by recorded delivery asap and I'll pay your money into your Account immediately.*

 

It's not in my interest to drag this matter on than necessary.*

 

We've already repaired the car on arrival this afternoon.*

 

If you look on our website you'll see from the photos that the wheels have been replaced.*

 

I am prepared to put you back in the position before you came and bought the car. Regards."

 

Does this mean he is willing to pay for recovery, tax and insurance? I've decided that instead of posting the slip back to him, I am going to drive up to the garage and hand deliver it. Hopefully he will refund the cost of the vehicle straight away. Would it be best to get him to refund me on my debit card or a direct bank transfer? Can he recall the money after he has refunded me?

 

I am also a bit concerned that he has managed to repair the car in such a short space of time and re-advertise it. It was dropped of at approx 3pm yesterday with the following faults:-

 

N/S rear tyre inner tread depth 1.0mm

N/S/F rim dented/distorted inner bead

O/s/R rim dented/distorted inner bead

N/S/R rim buckled badly

 

Front brake disc surface heavily corroded

Various corner/center sections of brake hoses & pipes corroded and insecure

 

Exhaust system surface corrosion. Heat shielding insecure

Steering rack leaking fluid

Both front coil springs broken. NSF ARB link bent

Transmission re-action link bush splitting

 

Also the remote central locking key fob does not work as the OSF door lock is low within handle and the drivers seat tilt release handle does not work.

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Got to the garage this morning and went to find the owner. He was nowhere to be seen so went outside and sat on my car to phone him. I told him I was in town and would drop the slip off to him personally so he can refund my money today. I think he was shocked that I had driven all the way to his garage as he said I was supposed to post it. I asked him if he could arrange a bank transfer today of which he said he couldn't do. I asked if he could refund me via my debit card of which he said he couldn't do either. He asked me to come back on Monday with the slip and he would do a bank transfer. I informed him that I could not do this as I would be working. He did state that he was at the garage.

 

I walked into the garage and asked him again if he could do a bank transfer to which again he refused stating he did not have online banking facility. I said ok, refund me on my debit card. He said he couldn't as the machine was broken. I asked him to prove to me that the machine was broken and he said that he didn't have to. He did however offer me a cheque. After a a while of him talking over me whilst I was trying to talk to him, I gave up and accepted the cheque. Grrrrrr. I then asked for a receipt. He said he didn't do receipts. I explained that all I need is some form of documentation detailing the return of the car and the amount he refunded, preferably on headed paper. He said he didn't have headed paper. I asked if he had a company rubber stamp. Nope was the reply. I had to settle with him writing on a plain bit of paper the information I wanted together with his signature.

 

I was so angry with him I couldn't even bring my self to say thank you whilst a walked out.

 

I really hope for his sake that the cheque doesn't bounce

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