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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.


      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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can an employee record meetings without consent

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Just as a enquiry can anyone tell me can an employee record meetings between ourselves and him, and pass them on to third parties???



or indeed communicate meetings over phones.



either the above without consent

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Not unless they have notified the other party that a recording will be made, that gives the other party the opportunity to withdraw.



A recording can be made without notice but it must be for own use only.

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no they cant


got a manager dismissed for that


transpired he had been routinely doing so to all employees he had been issuing discipline too


he must have your permission.



please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Clearly you physically *can* and I suspect your question is "what are the repercussions"?


It might be helpful to know why you are asking?

Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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It is not illegal to record a conversation which you are party to covertly - but it is unlawful to disclose that recording or a transcript to a third party.



If no one is aware that you are doing it, they cannot complain.




Edited by Conniff
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reason is we are the employer, we have an employee that is on long term sick, he is not fit for duty this has been confirmed by OC and Doctors. however he has broken English (we have always been able to communicate with him before the sickness and other issues started! - for 6 years) over the past 3 he has claimed he doesn't understand. We ask him in for meetings he sits there in the chair hands crossed smirking at us, not answering any questions. we within days will receive a fully itemised letter on the meeting, he takes no notes at all. There is a friend parked in a car outside every meeting. I have not given consent to be recorded or a transmission of the meeting to happen ;-( we have been told by his union rep - if we terminate his contract he has already planned his tribunal claim ! We have really tried hard but I do not know what more I can do.

Edited by Conniff
Corrected typo
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A termination of employment because of capability is a genuine reason for termination. I would do as above, get your meeting either on paper in his language and give that to him and get someone who speaks the language to interpret.

Record the meetings yourself.



If you fear he is using a transmitter to send the meeting to a friend or relative in a car, hold the meeting in a part of the building where it is unlikely the signal can penetrate if possible.



It would seem that the employment law has swung a bit too much in favour of an employee. If a tribunal is held, you have to pay win or lose and that seems unfair to me.

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What adjustments have you made for the employee in light of his limited English?


It sounds as though you potentially have grounds to dismiss him, so it all rests on the procedure. Did you offer him the right to have a friend present to help translate, for example? That would assist your case greatly, as you will need to demonstrate to a tribunal that he could reasonably understand the disciplinary proceedings and you gave him an adequate and fair opportunity to respond to them.


I once saw a case where an employee from Wales who had worked in the UK for a number of years demanded a Welsh translator at his disciplinary hearing because all of a sudden he had started to struggle with English! A ridiculous request, but it certainly strengthened the employers case in allowing it, as it made the employee look rather unreasonable...


Anyway - a failure to respond during the hearing could amount to insubordination. Without his answers, you would have to make the decision to dismiss based on medical evidence which says unfit to return. It might be worth holding a final hearing, offering him a friend to translate, and then dismissing him if he won't cooperate. No tribunal will expect you to carry an employee indefinitely, so you need solid evidence that he has been off for a significant period, that medical evidence says he cannot return and that you cannot continue to employ him (with reasons as to why).


And make sure every meeting is minuted!

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have been off ill and I am sorry for the delay.

we have stopped allowing a friend in with him, for the reason she does and can not translate she talks for him, and he doesn't know whats being said or written ,

We have arranged and interpretor, it really doesn't worry me if he is recording as we have nothing to hide, its more the moral fact and I would expect to be asked

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