Egg Court Hearing.

[Cmdenny]

I had my Egg card cloned and some ****** has been running round Ashford / Romney Marsh/Leyton - (places I have never been)and withdrew a grand in the space of two months - I highlighted this to egg as soon as I found out and 2 months down the line I dont have any returned cash and Egg are saying I am eligable! This is on the grounds that the amounts were £50, 100's and the normal methods of these thiefs is to withdraw as much as possible. Unfortunately it took me a couple of months to realise as the account was on line and not used frequently by myself (concentrating on paying off balance on another card first) - the minimum payment would be taken by direct debit. Egg sent me statements going back a year (on my request) and I querried a couple of other payments which were showing from last year (for several months the a.c had no availiable balance and I was concerned the card was cloned several months ago) when I asked them to look into these showing as "Barclays Woolwich" they then said I would eligable for all the debts - I since realise that this mean Barclays/Woolwich Bank and not a Barclays in Woolwich - the rest of the fraud withdrawls showing in east London and Kent. I have told Egg I only want to claim the payments which were not me, after Decemember 2006 - but they are telling me Im eligable for the entire theft!!

 

I have now spent hours on the phone to their awful call centres and treated like a thief - I am bashing my head against a brick wall.

 

 

 

 

I am on the final Appeal (whole thing started on 27feb when reported) with Egg and getting a triffle concerned - Any advise would be really appreciated. The last thing that they said to me was that I would be eligable to pay the theft amount in entirety even though I can provide statemtns to prove that I was not able to make the withdraws.

 

Cheers

PS -

 

 

The latest laugh is I have requested twice not to be called on my Home number, and on the last occasion yesterday morning I had my home number removed from the system. This is because I am at work during the day, and more importantly one of my family has been ill for some time and doesnt need to answer the phone - I get home and at 4pm one of their cretins has called the same day (home number has never been included on written letters)! I've just been on the phone again and raised another complaint

[Bovvered]

Wow that's really awful - I don't really know what to suggest, but hopefully someone will come by this thread soon and make suggestion(s)...

 

Hope you get it sorted - let us know

[Cmdenny]

thanks Mate - Its causing me no end of grief, plus I really cant afford to lose a grand! The stress, general inefficiency and reudeness from egg has been astounding.

[Bookworm]

Why are they holding you responsible? What are their legal grounds? We need to know more.

[Cmdenny]

I haven't had anything in writting but the person on the phone has informed me its because:

 

1) withdrawls over a year. [i have highlighted to them that I realise my mistake in being over-zealous and querrying the Woolwich/barlcays transaction - but the other payments after late Decemember 2005 are not me]

2) The fact that the card wasnt £300 withdrawn each time.

3) the "transactions look in the norm with you previous card usage" - they shouldnt dom because the card was only used once in around 6 months and this was for a Ryan Air flight.

 

Egg have informed a researcher/produce from the BBC working Lunch show that some of the withdrawls were made at midnight - in response to my claim that I could provide statements that I could provide statements off my whereabouts.

 

 

If required I can scan copies of my online statements and cut and paste them here? Help!

[Bookworm]

Ok, understand that I am not a legal expert here or anything like that, but it seems to me that the only thing that could give them justification to pin the charges on you is the length of time it took you to notify them.

 

The fact that it wasn't £300 each time, or that the transactions look like your normal card usage seem ridiculous, and I doubt that it would be a valid legal argument.

 

Certainly, without all the facts, it seems ludicrous... How did Working Lunch get involved?

[woolfie]

Can I suggest that you insist that from now on every correspondance is in writing. I personally would write to them and deny liability for the money that has been taken. I dont see how they can possibly hold you responsible. Have you spoken to the police regarding the theft from your acccount? Do you have card protection insurance?

[Maxie]

God I love these things. All banks and CC companies fracture laws on a daily basis, but with the break them and jump over the pieces I just can't resist giving them a good left hook.....followed by a right!

 

Send this Special delivery - next dat before 9am. I know it costs but you need to push this big style.

 

Assuming the details are correct, send the letter below - alter it as required:

 

Date

 

ADDRESS

 

Dear sirs,

 

RE: Account Number

 

Despite numerous telephone calls between myself and your call centres, I am unable to accept the responses tendered and now request a formal written reply. You may give your reply as 'final response deadlock letter' if you wish.

 

On {DATE} I noted that various amounts had been debited from my account to which I had no knowledge of. Upon further inspection of my online only account I noted multi debits to which I can unequivocally confirm I was neither part, nor have given authority to any third party to act on. I can further unequivocally confirm that I have never released my card or PIN to any third party or negligently place the same in such a situation that would allow a third party to gain access.

 

I am somewhat alarmed that dispite my attmepts to full co-operate with you and assist in your investiagions you seem determined to hold me perosnally liable for the losses suffered. I understand it is your position that your refusal to treat this matter as a theft or fraud is based on your sole opinion that the 'modus operandi' of the offended does not match the pattern you would 'expect'. please confirm your position on this matter.

 

I note that the contract between us limits my maximum liability to you should unauthorised account activity be of a fraudulent nature. Given my statement of truth in paragraph two, please provide details of the investigation you have conducted to support your current position, and furthermore that you intend to hold me fully liable for the whole of the loss, which amounts to {£xxxx.xx}.

 

Should you fail to furnish me with a satisfactory response within 14 days I shall make a formal complant to the banking ombudsman regarding this matter, or in the alternaitve issues legal proceedings or both. I shall also refer this matter to trading standard, the Office of Fair Trade and the Media.

 

In an proceedings I reserve a right to produce a copy of the letter and will rely upon all correpsondence as to evidence.

 

Finally, given the gravity of the situation and to save as to any potential doubt, I shall only communicate on this matter by written correspondence.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully,

[woolfie]

Damn thats what I was just about to say Maxie!! pmsl if only I was that eloquent.

[Cmdenny]

Thanks ever so much for the template, before I send it can I please ask a couple of points.

 

I am now on the final round of the appeal - the initial claim by me was as detailed above refused - this appeal closes in 10days (they gave 2 week turnaround ) - do you think it would help to send the letter anyway.

 

Secondly I have written to their Head of Credit Cards, though only sent to their address in Derby - as they wont give me any other addresses - I know that Egg have an office near my work (near Chancery Lane Station/Holburn in London) I was going to drop a letter to them by hand in the hope it actually got through.

 

I have contacted BBC Working Lunch, they have been helpful, but were waiting for the final Egg appeal to go through.

 

Would you recomend sending the appeal letter anyway?

 

Thanks

Chris

[Maxie]

The above letter seem straight forward, but is very 'loaded' and tells them you mean business. When inviting them, for example, if reply as a 'deadlock letter if they wish' you are saying you not going to act, tell me so than I can take this to the next stage. eg - I'm not going to put up with your nonscence and I know my rights! The second paragraph is a sttement that you took all reasonable care of the cards and PIN and by using the word 'unequivocally' you are stating it would not be possible and is seen as an coded way of say if this goes to court, this is what I will say under oath - eg you didn't know about the theft and you didn't authorise it and you took care of the card and PIN.

 

I'd take no crap. They are tresting you very badly. You can't even report this to the police as and crime has been committed against egg, not you. If it is theft they should have reported this to the police, if they suspect you are telling porkies eg committing Fraud they should have reported that to the police. The fact is they are trying to get out of their responsbilities.

 

Send the letter to:

 

The Cheif Executive

Egg Bank plc

1 Waterhouse Square

138-142 Holborn

London

EC1N 2NA

 

Remember special next day delivery!

[Cmdenny]

Hi-after 2 months The Head of the Fraud team, Jim Winters from Egg called me yesterday and after 2 calls totaling around 40 minutes he has agreed to refund £1060 (inc interest rate and overlimit charges).

 

He has offered some form of apology compensation, enquiring whether I drink wine (i dont drink, and dont want chocs) - I said I would think about it "though a hundred pounds wouldnt be amiss".

 

My Question: Do you think I should ask for more - I have spent around 6 hours+ on the phone, been called a theif, have to write 4 long letters to egg. I have had to take the advise of my Dad's financial advisor (who I will owe a meal as thanks), had to contact the BBC Working Lunch(THE REAL REASON I SUSPECT THAT THEY CHANGED THEIR RULLING, certainly Eggs Press Department have been mentioned), due to the concern over the thousand pounds I have also not been able to book my holiday and the flights have gone up by around £100.

 

Your advise is appreciated, I expect a call on Friday and would like know what you think I should ask for. At the moment I am thinking of outlining everthing I have mentioned above (and on other threads) and detailing the cash equivalents that I have spent. If Im offered a hundred I will reply "after speaking with financial advisor* this seems low, and I have reappraised this"

 

*this has been told to me

[Cmdenny]

Hi - after a long appeal involving hourse of stress egg have on the phone mentioned offering compensation - Please see "Egg Card Cloned - Im being made Liable" thread for full details.

 

What do you think is a fair thing to ask for. The chap on the phone asked if "I drunk wine" - I dont drink, and frankly I think that as I have spent the time to get the BBC involved this is a bit derisory. I indicated a hundred pounds, but then when considering the time and stress I have gone this isnt enough (once more I detail this on the "Egg Card Cloned - Im being made Liable" thread).

 

Your advise is appreciated.

[Maxie]

DON'T DO THINGS BY PHONE!!!

 

I can't do ti now, but I'll write you another letter later for you to send to him. Put the ball back in his court, on your terms and let egg do the running!

[Bookworm]

Please do not post the same query twice. You have posted on your Egg thread, it will get seen there. By double posting, you are creating more work, and you might miss interesting answers.

[Cmdenny]

Thanks Maxie. I have to say I was a bit caught off guard when he spoke to me on the phone yesterday and I mumbled "hundred pounds wouldnt go amiss" - but frankly this isnt relfective of my stress, time spent on the phone, not being able to book holiday flights, with the case hanging over me, having to get my Dad financial advisor friend involved, calling the BBC (etc...).

 

I did send the first letter template you recomended, this would have got there today, and so shoudl also stir things up. Their main concern is the BBC investigation, as he was certainly aware of the case, as he mentioned on a couple of occassions about Eggs Press Departmetn dealing with this.

[Cmdenny]

Thanks for all your help and support, I am expecting a call from Jim Winters in the fraud team today. If Maxie or anyone coudl provide a letter template that would be ever so helpful. I wil let you know how I get on.

[Maxie]

Sorry, I didn't get back you before - I was suddenly swamped by an action I thought was going to drag out some more.

 

To be honest, I'd wait and see if they reply tothe first letter. I'd get an address or habd delivery a letter to egg addressed to there head of fraud:

 

Dear sirs,

 

I write in relation to your recent telehpone call regarding from and my correspondent of (date you sent first letter), a copy of which is attached hereto.

 

I am pleased by your apparent decision to treat this matter in a correct manner. I do not however feel that such a matter can be resolved informally and as such must request your formal response to the attached.

 

Following your response and subject to my acceptance thereof, I will then be willing to discuss resolution of this matter which I beleive must include a element of compensatory restitution to myself.

 

I must reiterate, as previously stated, although I am eager to co-operate with your investigations, given the gravity of the situation and to save as to any potential doubt, I shall only communicate on this matter by written correspondence.

 

Yours faithfully

 

This should clarify the matter. Don't forget, what they have said isn't worth a bean, get it in writting - insit on it! Oh, and don't forget to include a copy of the first letter you sent a few days ago.

[Cmdenny]

Thanks for your latest help - I received the call today from Jim Winters in the Fraud Department.

He is refunding the fraud amount, sending a written apology and is sending a cheque for £300 as an apology. Its unfortunate to think that Egg maybe treatr many people like this, and possibly/probably their main concern is that I have got the BBC involved.

 

I think I may leave it there as it has been so much stress already - though I will drop the BBC Working Lunch Producers a call on Monday.

 

Your opinion would be interesting and I will certainly log on tommorow to check. have a great weekend. Chris

[JimmyTheOne]

A sad story with a happy ending. I would add, if you don't feel safe with a PIN, or you think that the PIN security devices offer little or no privacy, or you're concerned that chips are being insterted into ATM's by crooks (The Sun 27th April), which reads the cards data and the PIN, then send your PIN back and ask for Chip and Signature cards.

 

Let this thread be a warning, if you've not got a PIN with your credit card, you can't with-draw money from a cash point, but neither can a crook. If you have a disputed transaction you can always say it's not your signature, your prints aren't on the shops copy of the transaction slip, etc. But as proven here, it's difficulty proving you weren't negligent with your PIN.

[Cmdenny]

I have decided to let this lie, as I have an apology, and a cheque for £300 which I will cash tommorow.

The letter mentioned along the lines "full and final settlement, as discused on phone..." (not direct quote), which is to be expected, but was not actually mentioned on the call.

 

I will however be filling a DPA as well. I have cleared my remaining balance from Egg, and will be closing the account when DPA is resolved.

 

PS - thanks for the help.

[Cmdenny]

Saturday's Times Money section had about a guy who chasing Cahoot for 2 years! They just pushed him on to the omnbudsman (sic) - but they refunded his £900 after the Times contacted them - In these type of cases it looks like getting the media and the banks press offices involved can reap rewards.

[insomniac]

Surely this could have been reported to the police, when I worked at Nationwide and someone came into the branch and told us that they had mysterious transactions on their account we told them to report it to the police as it is a CRIME, we would have then stopped their cards and issued new ones.

 

At one point it seemed a local petrol station in the area was to blame for many card clonings, customers flex accounts would show them using the station and paying by card and then a few days later they had transactions happening in all around the world, some up to £6000 a time.

 

Nationwide paid all of this back and helped the customer with anything they needed, i.e any charges caused where cancelled and they where given money from the account etc.

 

If there is a law that states that if an amount owed is in dispute then a default cannot be filed, then surely if you would have paid egg everything you owed minus the fraudulent transactions then told them you wouldn't be paying it off and they couldn't take any action as the amount is in dispute Egg would have no choice to recredit your account.

[Cmdenny]

Filed Papers with Moneyclaim on Friday, am looking forward to this as Egg are the worst firm I have dealt with on several issues. Looking forward to their response.

[angry cat]

Good Luck ! and....Just Keep on Going Kind thoughts from AC:)