Motormile & Pounds Till Payday

[DiscoDav]

Hi Guys,

 

I'd like to start by saying thanks for all the help from everyone here over the past 5 years or so,

as much as i've never posted on here before, i'm an avid reader, and

have managed to get myself from £30k debt to debt free (or so i thought) in that time just by readying this forum.

 

I've had a bit of a weird one come through to me over the past few days

and i've scoured the forum for something similar but have been unable to find it, hence the first post.

 

I've been contacted by MMF with regards to a debt that i know nothing about.

 

They claim that 5 years ago i took out a payday loan and didn't pay it back with Pounds Till Payday.

 

i've gone through everything i have in my emails and everywhere else, and i have absolutely no data about it at all.

i replied to them through email to tell them this and to ask for more information and

 

received the response below:

 

Dear Mr xxxxx

 

Reference: .......

Debt balance: £658.90

Debt: Pounds Till Payday - Payday Loans

 

We refer to your recent communication and detail below the loan that was taken out in your name, together with the bank into which the funds were deposited:

 

Lender: Pounds Till Payday - Payday Loans

Type: Payday loan

 

Bank: abbey

A/c no.: xxxxxxxx

Employer: ndt inspector

Declared income:

 

Loan Date: 17/09/2009

Original Due Date: 25/09/2009

Orig loan value: 500.00

Loan interest: 149.90

Refinance Fee: 0.00

Late Direct Debit fees: 59.00

Amount Paid: 50.00

 

In a very small number of cases, it is possible there has been identity theft.

If after reviewing the information above, you can confirm that you did not apply for the loan

and that the bank account is not yours, then you can report this identity theft to the police.

 

Please visit Action Fraud at actionfraud.police or call them on 0300 123 2040.

 

Once you have reported this to Action Fraud you will be issued with a Crime Reference Number.

 

Upon receipt of this please call us with the information.

 

If, however, these details allow you to recall taking the loan,

we would be happy to talk to you about accepting instalments or offering a lump sum settlement discount.

 

Collections activity has been placed on temporary hold, pending your reply and we look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Collections Department

Motormile Finance UK Limited

Main: 08008 876876

 

I then responded with the following:

 

Sharon,

 

Thank you for your email.

 

Please can you send me some contact details for pounds till payday along with a reference number that they will recognise,

as i need to discuss certain aspects of this with them before anything else.

 

Secondly, please can you advise if your company are acting on behalf of pounds till payday

or if your company has purchased this debt from them permanently and if so, when was it purchased.

 

Once i have the above information i will be able to contact pounds till payday,

following from that i will need to contact Santander (Abbey) and request bank statements to be posted to me.

 

As far as i’m aware, there is a 28 day turn around on statements that are this old.

Then added on to that the postage to Australia (unfortunately Santander will not step in to the 21st century

and use email like the rest of the world).

 

Please be advised that this account with yourselves is now under query,

therefor i would appreciate it if you allow the above investigation to be carried out

before your company considers even thinking about putting a Default on my credit file

as i am very aware that they do without a second thought.

 

Please can you confirm the receipt of this email.

 

Kind Regards

 

 

And received the following back:

 

Good morning David ,

 

Thank you for your email ,

I do not have the contact number for Pounds Till payday

I can give you the reference number please find as follows ......

Also MMF are the legal owners of this Debt and was instructed on the 09/05/2014 .

 

Regards,

 

Sharon

Administration Clerk

Motormile Finance UK Ltd (MMF)

 

The above emails were all on the 15th of May.

 

Since then, i have had 12 emails (maybe automated) threatening doorstep collection, defaults and everything in-between.

they all come through at 1-2 o'clock in the morning, which is fine for me right now,

as i'm away with work in australia, so its mid morning.

 

The thing that i can't quite understand is:

I've never been previously contacted about this by either them or anyone else.

i check my credit file religiously once a month, and this isn't on it and never has been.

 

I no longer bank with santander and haven't for years. so getting hold of a statement from them is going to be pretty difficult.

 

I have no idea where to go from here, i've recently paid motormile my final debt (£950) which was for a wonga loan that definitely was mine.

 

Can they default me for something from 5 years ago that has never been previously reported to a CRA?

 

Long one i know, sorry for the babbling, but this company annoy the life out of me.

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[dx100uk]

moved you to the MMF forum.

 

stop even trying to deal with thtese fleecers

 

they send out 100'00's of these every week

to try and spoof people into paying them.

 

you owe nowt

 

they cant do anything to your CRA file

they are not the original creditor.

 

ignore them!

 

dx

[DiscoDav]

I've tried the ignore them route before with the Wonga thing i mentioned, that turned out disastrously and i now have a nice fat default on my credit file because of it.

 

that will expire in 2 years, and its my newest one, i don't want them to just slap another one on and then it take me months to get it removed

[dx100uk]

why did you pay them and not Wonga, you got done.

I can find no thread on this from you

where did you get the advise to pay MMF from? not from CAG I bet.

 

now they think you are a mug.

 

only the original creditor can default you file.

 

Default notices, litigation and section 127(3) of the Consumer Credit Act

July 2010

For a creditor to enforce a credit agreement against the debtor, he must serve the latter with a default notice, this notice must be served in accordance with section 88 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA).

Generally, the prescribed form of a default notice according section 88 is as follows:

"The default notice must be in the prescribed form and specify

(a) the nature of the alleged breach;

(b) if the breach is capable of remedy, what action is required to remedy it and the date before which that action is to be taken;

© if the breach is not capable of remedy, the sum (if any) required to be paid as compensation for the breach, and the date before which it is to be paid."

Section 127(3) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Should the debtor be sued for the outstanding amount, it may be open to the debtor to raise an argument that the agreement is unenforceable because it does not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations.

Agreements executed before 6 April 2007 are subject to sections 127 (3) & (4) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ('CCA'). Agreements entered into after that date are not by operation of the repeal under the Consumer Credit Act 2006.

The effect of sections 127 (3) & (4) truly displays the paternalistic nature of the CCA, in that where a breach of a prescribed term under regulation 6 and schedule 6 to the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 is found, the agreement as a whole will be irredeemably unenforceable.

In other words, the lender cannot enforce the agreement or realise any surety under that agreement; the debt in effect is written off.

[DiscoDav]

Yeah, i was thinking that too, t

hey think that as i paid them once that i will do it again.

 

I paid the Wonga thing to them as it had been with them for ages,

and as with this same situation,

 

they had bought the debt, and i knew it was mine.

 

I'd already admitted it to them on the phone several times when i was hard up and couldn't afford it.

This all happened before i had discovered that CAG even existed.

 

Reading the above section from the consumer credit act that you have put,

with MMF buying the debt, does that not make them the creditor now?

[dx100uk]

MMF were not around 5yrs ago.!!

so why did you fall foul of paying them

if you say you've read here for 5yrs.

 

telephone admittance of a debt does not count

 

you got fleeced.

 

please don't pay them a penny

 

they cannot default your file

they are not the original creditor

 

if you must

send them a CCA request

 

 

dx

[DiscoDav]

its only a matter of months ago that i paid them for the Wonga thing as i'm clearing everything off ready to try and buy a house.

 

Am i allowed to send the CCA request through email?

[dx100uk]

no as you need to pay the fee

 

can I suggest you await further poster in the morning.

 

.........................

 

as for the Wonga debt

 

why did Wonga sell the debt

 

was it inflated with PENALTY charges?

 

if Wonga sold the debt, theres a very good reason

 

how long ago did you pay MMF fleecers?

 

by a card over the phone?

[DiscoDav]

Yes of course, i can't really do much at the moment anyway as i'm away with work, i'm just trying to get all of my facts straight.

 

I have no idea why they sold the debt, the first i knew about it was when MMF sent me a letter about it.

 

i don't think they added any of their own charges on to it if thats what you mean, i paid £950 which i think was the loan plus the late payment fee from wonga

 

i paid it on the 18th jan this year, over the phone - MMF defaulted me on 30/10/2009

[dx100uk]

I would suggest the Wonga defaulted you

then sold it because they added penalty fees that are unlawful.

 

if mmf have you card details

 

phone your bank

and TELL THEM

 

under the cpa rules to cancel any further demands from mmf

 

mmf WILL drain your card.

 

follow the cpa stuff from this text...

 

GENERAL NOTES ON CHARGEBACK & Continuous Payment Authority & BACS

.....

We have been telling people to put a letter into their bank instructing them not to make any payments under any circumstances to these companies

.

http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/- it works!

.

banks MUST follow written intructions from their customers !

.

This fsa guideicon has now been updated:

.

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/consumer_...ghts_guide.pdf

.

Here's the text:

.

Cancelling a regular

card payment:

.

When you give your credit or debit card details to a company and authorise them to take regular payments from your account,

such as for a gymicon membership or magazine subscription,

it is known as a ‘recurring transaction’ or ‘continuous payment authority’.

.

These are often confused with direct debits, but do not offer the same guarantee if the amount or date of the payment changes.

.

In most cases, regular payments can be cancelled by telling the company taking the payments.

.

However,

you have the right to cancel them directly with your bank or card issuer by telling it that you have stopped permission for the payments.

Your bank or card issuer must then stop them – it has no right to insist that you agree this first with the company taking the payments.

.

Be aware, though, that you will still be responsible for paying any money that you owe.

.

see:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...-Viewing)-nbsp

.

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/consumer...ng/index.shtml

.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/201...?newsfeed=true

..

.

New june 2013

.

Regulator orders Banks and mutuals to review complaints about not cancelling recurring payments from November 2009.

.

Consumers who have set up a regular payment from their account will now be able to successfully cancel that arrangement

by contacting their card provider, the Financial Conduct Authority said.

.

The FCA has been examining how easy it is for customers to cancel Continuous Payment Authorities (CPAs)

due either to payday lendersicon or for other regular payments such as subscriptions or gymicon memberships.

.

CPAs, which are also commonly called recurring transactions or recurring payments,

are relatively easy to set up but can be hard to cancel, causing problems for consumers trying to manage their finances,the FCA said.

.

Now, following the FCA review of how the largest high street banks and mutuals process requests to cancel CPAs, they have agreed that they will ensure that when

a customer asks for a recurring payment to end, that will be sufficient to cancel the arrangement. They have also confirmed that should a payment go through by

mistake following cancellation by a customer the customer will be refunded immediately.

.

In addition to securing this commitment, the largest banks and mutuals have agreed to review every individual complaint they have received about the non-

cancellation of a CPA and to pay redress where payments have continued to be made despite the customer cancelling the arrangement. This applies to all complaints

since November 2009 when the Financial Services Authority, the FCA’s predecessor, began regulating banking conduct.

.

Clive Adamson, the FCA’s director of supervision, said: “It’s important that consumers are confident that banks are meeting their everyday banking needs. Today

customers can be confident that when they ask for a Continuous Payment Authority to be cancelled – it will be cancelled - and that it can be done easily.

.

“We recognise that historically this is an area where some customers have struggled but the banks and mutuals have responded positively to our work on this issue.

From now on we expect them to be getting this right. In addition, they have committed to review past complaints.”

.

http://www.ftadviser.com/2013/06/28/...J/article.html

.

Also mentioned your displeasure that as whomever took your money had obviously attempted this many times

probably activating your banks own anti fraud software - nobody had the decency to inform my you this was going on.?

.In the FSA's own words:

.

..

What should I do about a payment from my account that I didn’t authorise?

.

Your bank must refund an unauthorised transaction.

Money can only be taken from your account if you have authorised the transaction

or if your bank can prove you were at fault –

see below.

Contact your bank immediately if you notice an unauthorised payment from your account.

If you are sure you did not authorise the payment, you can claim a refund.

However, your bank does not have to refund you if you do not tell it about the payment until 13 months

or more after the date it left your account.

.

Your bank must refund an unauthorised transaction

.

------------------

.

Your bank may only refuse a refund for an unauthorised transaction if:

.

? it can prove you authorised the transaction

– though your bank cannot simply say that use of your password,

card and PIN proves you authorised a payment; or

? it can prove you are at fault because you acted fraudulently,

or because you deliberately,

or with gross negligence, failed to protect the details of your card, PIN or password in a way that allowed the transaction

.

-----------------------

.

How quickly must my bank refund me for an unauthorised transaction?

.

The bank must make the refund immediately unless it has evidence that one of the above reasons applies.

Your bank may ask you to answer some questions and fill out a form confirming what has happened,

but it cannot delay your refund while it waits for you to return the form.

If the bank has evidence that one of the above reasons for refusing a refund applies,

it may investigate before making a refund

but must look into it as quickly as possible.

If your bank rejects your claim for a refund it should explain why.

If the transaction was on a credit card, the refund may not happen immediately.

But the card issuer cannot charge interesticon or ask for repayment of the amount unless it can prove you are liable to pay

[/b]

These are your statutory rights under FSA regulations. They are not guidance.

.

if you did it by your banking portal:

.

then follow this:

.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...73#post4534173

[DiscoDav]

Thanks for the info, luckily, i've had a new bank card since paying them. But i'll get in touch with the bank either way.

 

Thinking back, you are correct about wonga defaulting me originally.

[DiscoDav]

To be honest, unless i could get the Wonga/MMF default removed and have the money back i'm not really looking to reopen that can of worms, that default disappears next year, and i'm okay with that timeframe, its just a stark reminder to myself of what being a complete idiot and panicking can actually cost.

 

I know i was fleeced the first time around, i just want to stick it back to them this time.

[renegadeimp]

New bank card doesnt matter if there's a cpa on the account.

[DiscoDav]

Good morning guys (good evening to you i guess),

 

i've called the bank and told them about what was mentioned above, i didn't quite know what i was talking about, but they did, luckily enough.

 

I've had another default threat email from MMF again, is there anything i can get them with right now until i'm back in the UK and can send them the CCA request?

[fletch70]

Hi.

I have exactly the same issue with mmf and pounds till payday. I have banged off a complaint demanding

1) Proof of debt

2) Proof of ownership of debt including NOA and DOA along with legal case law backing me up

3) A breach of FCA rules by disclosing details and amount if debt in the email without checking it was actually me (CSA rules)

4) That any default placed would be in breach of guidelines as the OC should have placed it at an appropriate time

5) If they unfairly damage my credit rating i Will claim

 

And the usual do not nick my doorstep and in writing only. I sent it by email stating they are incompetent but didn't give them my address.

 

I Will await there reply. Lets hope they do not have proof.

 

BTW are the details they provided you correct?

[fletch70]

Good morning guys (good evening to you i guess),

 

i've called the bank and told them about what was mentioned above, i didn't quite know what i was talking about, but they did, luckily enough.

 

I've had another default threat email from MMF again, is there anything i can get them with right now until i'm back in the UK and can send them the CCA request?

 

If it would help i can past the email i sent along with the email addresses i sent it to but it Will be in our morning before i can. If you would rather i can get someone to pm it to you ( I can't pm but am in touch with some people can)

[dx100uk]

Good morning guys (good evening to you i guess),

 

i've called the bank and told them about what was mentioned above, i didn't quite know what i was talking about, but they did, luckily enough.

 

I've had another default threat email from MMF again, is there anything i can get them with right now until i'm back in the UK and can send them the CCA request?

 

so you got that money back?

 

dx

[DiscoDav]

Hi Fletch,

 

Yeah, that sounds like exactly the kind of email that i would like to hit them with. I would be very grateful for a copy of it.

 

If by details, you mean my bank account number and stuff, yes it was my account when i banked with abbey, although they would already know that from the Wonga situation i guess?

 

 

 

Dx,

 

To which money are you referring? The Wonga payment?

 

Cheers

[Ocelot0411]

This CRA business is INCORRECT. They can and will put a default on your credit file if they own the debt. Both the FOS and the ICO state that they are quite entitled to do this regardless if the original creditor recorded it or not.

[Ocelot0411]

See final paragraph of point 1. below. http://www.scoronline.co.uk/files/scor/high_level_prinicples_document_final.pdf

[dx100uk]

read it properly please

 

point 1 refers to the monthly reporting

 

i'e the 1,2,3, etc markers

 

not default notices or the registering of the 'debt' as being 'in default'

 

only the original creditor can do those

 

dx

[Ocelot0411]

Not correct. There is no factual basis for this. Point one does not refer to monthly reporting at all otherwise how could the original creditor 'and' the DCA record an account at the same time. DCAs record defaults on CRAs on a daily basis where no account was recorded before. This is not a breach of the DPA the CCA or any other legislation. The FOS the ICO and the CRAs all condone this practice. There is no requirement for a default notice to be issued to record a default on a credit file. A default is not 'registered'' it is just reported by whoever owns the account.

 

Where does this notion that only an original lender can report an account as being in default come from? It's just not true.

[renegadeimp]

If a buyer was allowed to add defaults whenever they like, then it would be open to massive abuse. Thats why all buyers DONT add a default on. They merely update the record. If your scenario was correct, then they would put a default on YEARS after the point of action.

[Ocelot0411]

It is open to abuse and it happens everyday. Let me put his another way. A DCA records a defaulted account they have bought where one wasn't recorded by the original lender. You tell them they can't do this because ????? law prevents them from doing so. Or you take them to court. Your particulars of claim are ??????

 

You don't have particulars of claim. They are quite within their rights to do this and do it all the time. The ICO condones it.

[DiscoDav]

Ok, so, this bit is the but where i get confused.

 

Pounds Till Payday are not even mentioned in my credit file. I've checked all of them, and there's not a whiff of them anywhere.

 

Does that change the course of action required from me?