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Hi

Not sure what advice anyone can give me and sorry it is long winded.

 

Over a year ago my partner and I advertised for a part time admin person

and were approached by a recruitment company who had obviously seen us as a possible lead!

 

We are only a small business, but

my partner decided to allow the RC to come to our house and discuss if they could help.

I was not keen and left it to my partner.

 

The result being she agreed to meet 3 applicants.

 

She did not sign any terms and conditions,

nor was she given any at that time, cost was not discussed at any time.

 

An email from the RC asked us to return and sign them but none were attached.

 

We then went away on business for three weeks.

 

However my partner decided to try one applicant and informed the RC by telephone

that she could start 4th Jan 2013 for one day a week.

 

(During the time we were away an email was sent with the costs,

which my partner did not pick up due to work etc)

 

We then received an invoice for £980 dated 27th December payable immediately.

 

I was a bit shocked by the cost (as was my partner) and was reluctant to pay as I had no idea it would be this much.

 

I wrote and said that i would pay monthly ( as I believed that should she stop working I would not have to keep paying)

 

We sent a payment and also said that no terms etc had been signed and costs agreed.

 

The RC refused and started legal action and

 

during this period the admin person informed us she was going to do her own freelance work

and stopped any more work on 2nd April having completed about 6 or 7 days work in total.

 

I received a court claim form etc.

 

I lodged a defence and after agreeing to mediation

I was told they had refused that,

and a court date was set for October 14th.

 

The RC replied to the defence and I replied to that and sent copies by registered post to the RC and the court.

 

Now a week before the hearing I was given a date 14th October for an operation,

that I had been waiting for, two years waiting,

that's why I was on a last minute list if a space arose.

 

I emailed the court and informed them of the operation and apologised for the short notice.

 

I did hope that it would be postponed and foolishly said in the email that if they had to hear it in my absence

I would understand believing if that happened they would look at my defence.

 

I got an automated response, and heard nothing more and was out of action myself for nearly 2 months.

 

To be fair I did forget all about it until March when

 

I received a letter from a claims management offering to help after the judgement against us.

 

I immediately tried to call the court and could not get through and emailed again on the 5th march

asking for details and why we had not been informed of any judgement.

 

Again I had only an automated reply.

 

We then went away for work for another 4 weeks working and

just after arriving back had a visit from the High Court enforcement Officer demanding £1908.35 and giving 4 days to pay.

 

I rang the court again and after a fair wait finally got through and was abruptly told that my defence was dismissed

and a letter of judgement had been sent out.

 

I have never received any letter of judgement and would have acted if I had done so.

 

I then applied to the High Court for a Stay and the County Court for a hearing to set aside, and was granted both.

 

In my defence I thought I had a good chance of judgement in my favour for the following reasons.

 

1.The claim and judgement were not made out to our partnership,

which they started with originally but in the name of our other business which is similar in name,

but is a ltd company that trades under owns a cafe with different premises

and registered office (my old accountants who were still listed on the Companies house website.

I imagine they may have been sending stuff there mistakenly,

and the HCE officers actually told me that they had gone there and were given my home address by them.

 

I did send proof to the RC that it was the wrong company they were claiming against,

in the form of separate headed paper and separate cheque books and accounts.

 

We also have separate VAT and HMRC accounts and they are totally different types of business.

 

2. We never signed any agreement and only saw any terms and conditions when we were given demands for payment.

 

3. The RC had two of their employees, who were writing to both my home and my previous accountants.

 

4. The 'admin employee' had ceased any work after hardly any time at all and why should we pay any more than that.

 

5. There are other points I raised but those were the main defence.

 

today at the Set aside hearing the DJ was not interested in any of this

and stated that the original judge had dismissed my defence and any counter claim.

 

I am certain he did not have any of the original documents from my reply to the RCs reply.

 

I believe he was only looking at my application to set aside

which had the email informing of my op, and the follow up email.

 

He said

'what does it matter if the Ltd Company had the judgement as opposed to us personally'

 

he also expressed doubt that I had not received the judgement,

and I should have known that it had gone ahead in my absence.

 

He was not interested in my email asking what had happened, or any info from the hospital.

 

He would not let me explain anything, and he favoured the RC solicitor

and I got quite upset as he would not listen and refused to set aside the judgement

and said I should pay the original cost and court costs so about £1150.

 

He also said he would not allow me to appeal without applying for permission.

 

I am really angry and feel that it was already decided before we entered the room.

 

What can I do now.

 

Any help appreciated

 

Jaw

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Hi Jaw and welcome to CAG

 

Perhaps post up the particulars of claim and your defence (less any identifiable data) verbatim and we can see what grounds the DJ dismissed your defence/counter claim.

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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Attachment failed

 

Here is dx's tutorial to help guide you with attachments :)

 

follow this:

 

**you can post up images/letters by this method immediately..you don't need 10 posts**

.

set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

.

************************* ************************* *******

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

************************* ************************* ***********

.

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

http://www.convert-jpg-to-pdf.net/

..

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or http://www.freepdfconvert.com/

or

use http://www.pdfmerge.com

 

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though DONT USE BANK NAMES or CAGicon in the title

i'e Default notice DDicon-mm-yyyy

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

...

YOU DONT have to put a link to the attachment in the msg box..just upload it ..job done

.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

 

The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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Still cant see it. For this forum it is better to use PDF files. JPGs come out too small

 

The guide I gave above will help you convert it to PDF. It takes only a few minutes and when you have done it once you will find it easy :)

 

Also please remember to use PAINT on the computer to erase your personal details before converting it to the PDF

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

 

The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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I think that you have been treated quite harshly by the trial judge and also in your setaside application - although you haven't posted the application here and so one can't be sure. Please will you post the setaside application for us.

 

However, I would also say that you rather courted this disaster in the way that you managed the recruitment and in the way you managed the claim against you. I appreciate that you don't have any litigation experience but even at a basic level of management, it makes it less surprising that judge found against you.

Also it is clear that this RC is very businesslike and aggressive about the way that they do these things - and the fact that they have transferred the judgment to the High Court in order to enforce it shows that they are experienced about this and have a very no nonsense approach.

 

You have been with us since 2011. It is a shame that you didn't come to us much earlier because the outcome for you would have been very different

 

I think that you need to do some basic research here in order to see if you can put a case together which has a chance of success. How long ago did the judge refuse you leave to appeal? You have a limited window to ask for permission - is it 14 days? And you need to complete your research well before then if you feel that you might want to challenge the decisions against you.

 

I think that you need to contact two or three recruitment agencies and find out a bit more about the industry.

 

You need to find out what is generally understood as a "permanent employee". Is it the same as fulltime? Could it refer to part-time?

How are recruitment charges generally charged out. I find it odd that there is a one-off fee and that nothing is tied in to the length of employment - or at least a minimum period of employment.

How is the fee calculated?

What is the normal fee charged by recruitment companies. Is this one within the range?

How was your fee calculated by the RC

How much were you paying this employee

Did they send you an invoice? Please will you post it here.

 

Also, I would like you to contact me my email please - on our admin email address. Please include details of the RC and of the employee who you took on - including dates of their employment, the rate of pay etc. All of this will be received in confidence but there are a few questions which I would like to investigate as well.

Please include a contact phone number.

 

If you want to stand a chance of doing something about this, then please act immediately.

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Also - where did you advertise your vacancy?

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Hi

thanks for the reply

I have tried to keep it simple as poss so see replies below in red

The advert was only placed with the Jobcentre and the RC approached through the ad.

 

 

 

 

 

I think that you have been treated quite harshly by the trial judge and also in your setasideicon application - although you haven't posted the application here and so one can't be sure. Please will you post the setaside application for us

 

Will do asap

 

However, I would also say that you rather courted this disaster in the way that you managed the recruitment and in the way you managed the claim against you. I appreciate that you don't have any litigation experience but even at a basic level of management, it makes it less surprising that judge found against you.

 

I am aware of that and wish......

 

Also it is clear that this RC is very businesslike and aggressive about the way that they do these things - and the fact that they have transferred the judgment to the High Court in order to enforce it shows that they are experienced about this and have a very no nonsense approach.

 

I had no knowledge of transfer either

 

 

You have been with us since 2011. It is a shame that you didn't come to us much earlier because the outcome for you would have been very different

 

I had thought that getting a set aside hearing and stay was a good sign, it would give me a chance to defend properly

I think that you need to do some basic research here in order to see if you can put a case together which has a chance of success. How long ago did the judge refuse you

leave to appeal? You have a limited window to ask for permission - is it 14 days?

 

I believe it was 14 days and the RC solicitor also said she would give 14 days before enforcing again and I needed to inform her of appeal

And you need to complete your research well before then if you feel that you might want to challenge the decisions against you.

I think that you need to contact two or three recruitment agencies and find out a bit more about the industry.

You need to find out what is generally understood as a "permanent employee". Is it the same as fulltime? Could it refer to part-time?

How are recruitment charges generally charged out. I find it odd that there is a one-off fee and that nothing is tied in to the length of employment - or at least a minimum period of employment.

 

we were not given any terms until after the event

 

How is the fee calculated?

 

Up to £20,000 = 17.5% fee part time or not

 

What is the normal fee charged by recruitment companies. Is this one within the range?

 

yes

 

How was your fee calculated by the RC

 

salary est was £4680 x 17.5% = £819 + Vat

 

How much were you paying this employee

 

As above

 

Did they send you an invoice? Please will you post it here.

 

Asap

 

Also, I would like you to contact me my email please - on our adminicon email address. Please include details of the RC and of the employee who you took on - including dates of their employment, the rate of pay etc. All of this will be received in confidence but there are a few questions which I would like to investigate as well.

Please include a contact phone number.

 

Asap

 

If you want to stand a chance of doing something about this, then please act immediately.

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Nothing on this

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"Working away" seems to be quite a consistent feature in this problem.

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If only it was just a' feature' !

Unfortunately I have to travel the country a fair amount and certain times of the year, myself and my partner are away from home for anything from 3 days up to nearly 4 weeks.

Its not ideal and as a parent it is difficult, and sometimes it causes problems, as it has here.

Being self employed is a life style , and not a job I guess.

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Hi

Can anyone tell me if,

A CCJ was registered, but is still open to appeal after a set aside hearing whether it would be cleared if the amount in dispute was settled before the appeal window closed.

 

I hope that makes sense.

 

Any info appreciated

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Hi Bank Fodder

there is a ccj registered as I thought Trust online shows 30/10/13 £1,167 Unsatisfied Judgment

 

 

Paying the CCJ now will mean it shows as a satisfied judgment for 6 years.

 

The only ways to remove it fully now are to set aside and either pay or defend and win or if you lose pay it in full within one month of judgment.

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