Interview Under Caution

[poweris3]

Hi there, I hope you can help me.

 

I am a single mum and have been since my son was 3 months old (he is now 2 years old). I claim Income Support (which is only £46 a week now as they are stopping money from it for debts), Child Tax Credits and Child Benefit as well as Housing Allowance and Council Tax benefits.

 

On saturday I had a letter through saying I am being investigated for alleged benefit fraud and have to attend an interview under caution on June 3rd. It doesn't say what I have been accused of exactly and I am miffed. I do not know.

 

I have thought of 3 possible reasons but I didn't think they would be benefit fraud and still don't so I don't know... They are as follows.

 

My son's father is not allowed near us, there is a court order preventing him accessing his child (for bloody good reason!) but he does pay money into to my bank by direct transfer every week or two. He is well off and it is usually around 100 a week (when he sends it, sometimes he sends nothing for 6 weeks) but I read somewhere that maintenance money from a parent does not affect a claim for IS. I probably should have told them but I was worried they would think I was letting the dad see my child and call social services (they're the ones who obtained the court order and it took a lot to convince them I have nothing to do with the ex. Which I don't). Could the money he sends mean I have been committing fraud and not even known it???

 

2) I had a girlfriend for around 10 weeks last year. She had trouble with her home situation and I let her stay with me for just over a week while she got herself sorted. She was only staying over, we weren't living together.. It was only a week.. Could it be that?

 

Or

 

3) My mum is a cleaner at a nursery. She works one hour an evening there. On fridays for the last 3 weeks I have done her one hour shift (for free) while she baby sits my son as she then has him over night and it gives me a break. I didn't get paid for it I just did it so she could babysit and I got a restful sleep. It amounts to 3 hours in total and even the lady who works with my mum will say I didn't get paid and just helped her hoover and get the place tidy. Could it be that? I only did it for the first time 3 weeks ago.

 

As far as I know I haven't broken the law. I possibly should have told them about the money from my ex but it says online that it doesn't affect a claim for IS so I didn't think it would matter...

 

Any advice?? I don't think I have time to find a solicitor as I have no childcare and it's not going to be easy sitting in a solicitors office explaining while stopping my toddler wrecking the place..

[goodatresearch]

I was under the impression that since April 2010 child maintenance does not affect any benefits. Before then there was a disregard only. Don't know if this will change under universal credit.

[rebel11]

Hi poweris3

 

Welcome to CAG

 

There's a bit of a contradiction in point (2), 10 weeks, 1 week. I think you do mean one week. You know what it could potentially be which is good, just take evidence if available. Just because you've got to go to a IUC, doesn't mean anything negative will happen. You could contact CAB, but there seems nothing to worry about.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/297972/is-20.pdf

[poweris3]

Hi, she was my gf for 10 weeks but she only stayed in my house for one week. We were just dating. No one was anyone's provider or dependant. Just going for drinks/meals and seeing if we were compatible as partners. This is allowed? Right?? I just wonder if the week she stayed with me due to her home situation could be the issue?

 

I can't help but be worried sick. I worry they won't believe me or that I will lose my benefits and be unable to keep my home or even my child. I wish they'd tell me what I am meant to have done. Going to phone them tomorrow.

 

Thanks.

[rebel11]

Hi poweris3

 

If you read some of the threads on this site you will see that some of the time their is no 'rhyme or reason' to their actions. And nothing happens. People's reactions are 'what?', you need to stop worrying. All that you know is that they want to talk to you.

 

It might be an idea to take someone with you, for support.

[antone]

I was under the impression that since April 2010 child maintenance does not affect any benefits. Before then there was a disregard only. Don't know if this will change under universal credit.

 

That's correct, but if the money wasn't declared to the DWP then they'll have no way of knowing what it is.

 

OP, I'd say seeking a solicitor would be your best course of action. You have the right to have the IUC postponed while you seek legal representation. One of the main reasons why I think a solicitor would be useful is that they might be able to get the DWP to explain what it is they think you may have done wrong.

 

Being quite honest, I do see some red flags here in what you've said. Undeclared maintenance money would certainly look suspicious to a fraud investigator who doesn't know where that £100 per week is coming from. The DWP will not report you to Social Services or concern itself with whether or not a court order is being complied with, so tell them about these things.

 

Working in a job where a person would normally be paid is still something that needs to be declared even if you, personally, are declining payment for that work. I presume your mother receives the payment for your work in this case.

 

As to your GF staying, well, that isn't against the rules in and of itself. If that's what they're concerned about, you would want to demonstrate that there is no financial connection between you, and that you and she don't constitute a "household", using that word in its normally understood plain English meaning. If she maintains another residence, has her bills sent there and would be considered to live there and not with you, her staying over for a week shouldn't be a problem.

 

So while you may not have done anything intentionally wrong, I can see why the fraud people might be looking at this and so I'll restate my advice to speak to a solicitor ASAP.

[goodatresearch]

Just a thought, how do the benefits people find out about private maintenance payments via bank transfer?

[RaeUK]

From the bank.

[goodatresearch]

They can't just access bank accounts without a court order.

[kk3852]

They can't just access bank accounts without a court order.

 

The DWP and LA can obtain bank statements under Social Security legislation. There is no need for a court order, but they do have to show that there is compelling reason to do so.

[goodatresearch]

Worrying isn't it. They can make anything look like a compelling reason to snoop. Look at councils who used to use anti terrorism laws to see if residents were recycling properly.

[Shoelover]

You mean RIPA? One of the purposes of RIPA is anti terrorism but it is also for the prevention and detection of crime. The press seem to have forgotten terrorism is just one use.

Before RIPA those councils could just snoop without any checks or justification.

Accessing bank accounts is a last resort held by a limited number of fraud investigation officers (known as authorised officers). The requests are checked and counter signed and are very strictly monitored. Fishing trips are simply not permitted.

[poweris3]

Where you say looking at bank accounts secretly would be a last resort and something done by a specialist fraud officer, would they do this without even speaking to me? As no one has asked me anything I didn't know I was being investigated until the letter came through on Saturday.

 

I will just be totally open and honest and hope they believe that any wrong doing was not as an attempt to defraud the benefit system. I really would not do that. I didn't declare the maintenance but for very different reasons, which I will explain to them. I just wish they'd called me up to ask about anything they were unsure of. The letter is so scary. It says I may be arrested if I don't confirm I am attending the interview at that if they are not satisfied at the end of the interview I may be prosecuted. And still I do not know what for.

 

I will call them tomorrow to confirm I am attending and ask what their concerns are.After all, how can I provide evidence on the day of my innocence if they don't tell me what I need to prove I'm innocent of.

 

Also, they have not asked me to bring anything (like bank statements) with me. Would they not ask for that if it was about money going in?? You'd think they'd want to see if you'd bring in fake or doctored statements or something. Also if they'd bothered to look into the payments coming in they'd see it was from my son's dad (who is on the birth certificate which they have a copy of).

 

Thank you all again for your replies and help. And for the non judgemental tone

[antone]

It is possible that they'd look at bank accounts without telling you, yes.

 

You must contact them to confirm your attendance or, yes, you can be arrested. But you can also contact them and ask that the interview be postponed while you seek legal advice and I strongly advise you to do this. As I said, a solicitor would likely be able to find out what it is they're concerned about.

[Shoelover]

How do you know they have been looking at your bank statements? You are just assuming they have as you have had an IUC letter.

[antone]

How do you know they have been looking at your bank statements? You are just assuming they have as you have had an IUC letter.

 

To be fair, it wasn't the OP who raised this as a possibility, it was brought up by someone else in the thread. But yes, indeed, we don't know what this is all about and it may not involve bank accounts at all.

[poweris3]

I don't know they have. I have no idea what they're concerned about until I talk to them. I will speak to them tomorrow and depending on what they say I may ask for a little time to seek legal advice. I was just asking a hypothetical question about the bank statements as someone above had mentioned they're able to do this.

[Shoelover]

Sorry yes, re read what I wrote.

There is no way of knowing if they have or not at this stage. If they have then they will feel they have good grounds.

Untill you know why they need to see you there really is more questions than there is answers!

[poweris3]

I will post again once I've spoken to them really hope it is something I can get cleared up straight away as the worry isn't nice to live with. It's the unknown that's scary.

[Shoelover]

I'm sure it is. It could be any one of a number of scenarios.. If they tell you whats it's about it will be in the loosest terms

[tomtom256]

They are meant to tell you the reason why they want to IUC as part of PACE, as you have a right to know so that you can obtain the correct legal advice if needed.

 

It's poor if they haven't given a reason, even if it is just along the lines of "undeclared partner/income/capital etc".

 

When we send letters out we put the psecific reson and if anything else will be discussed.

 

As for Social Security Legislation, investigators can get pretty much anything they want within reason under it and it is not just limited to bank accounts.

[Shoelover]

We tend to give a reason such as "because we have reason to believe that you have been working"

 

If you get a solicitor they will be able to get pre interview disclosure.

 

Have you rung them yet?