Marston Bailiffs removed car illegally, now they're pursuing me again even though they have my car!!! Help please!!!?

[dx100uk]

does seem to follow you

no issue easy unmerged as easy as merging.

 

dx

[dx100uk]

there you go

your other current thread reinstated

 

your old threads regarding the car are still merged here

 

dx

[nikkikitch]

Ok thanks. Any advice?

[lookinforinfo]

What a terrible story. It must be so frustrating living through it all.

However a number of things come to mind.

Have you paid any money to the Council since your car was seized? If not why? It would seem to have been the quickest way to get your car back.

 

All this occurred about a year ago now so I am surprised that it has only now got to stage 3 complaint.

 

Have you resolved the question of whether the bailiff was certificated?

 

Have you asked for and received a breakdown of the bailiff charges? If yes, could you please post them here.

 

Are you dealing with the Council or people who work in the Council offices but are actually employed by Capita or some other outsourced company that also have bailiffs within

the Company. In other words, when you have instigated the various complaint levels, did you address them specifically to the CEO or just to the Council?

 

Have you made any complaints to the Police about their actions?

 

Do they still have you car or have they sold it? If they haven't the storage charges will probably be pretty steep.

 

I take it the car is not on HP.

 

It is not unlawful for the bailiffs to take your car for the debt especially if they cannot raise enough money from your possessions.

 

You really do need to get the Ombudsman on to your case quickly. Did you complain to the Ombudsman about your treatment from the ba toiliffs, Police and Council or did you just ask them to get the Council to take your complaint to stage 3?

 

I believe you had a strong case last year, but the longer it drags on the more things run against you since the impression is that you do not appear to be sufficiently interested

to get the problem resolved.

 

Please get back to us when you have a reply to your complaint.

[nikkikitch]

Hi there,

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

I have paid no money to the council as they would not accept any payments and told me to deal with Marstons which i refused to given they already have a car worth £2,500!

 

One of the bailiffs was certificated, the other was not.

 

I have the charges somewhere, i will dig them out but i know from research that they are not legal.

 

At the first stage of the complaint, i dealt with a council employee. I was not happy with the response so immediately escalated it to the Ombudsman, it took them a month to reply and they told me it must be escalated through a stage 2. I contacted the council to look at my complaint again and they ignored me completely, which added another two months. I then contacted the ombudsman again and they contacted the council for me who agreed that because i had been ignored at stage 2 that they would escalate it straight to stage 3, another month passed before i got their response.

 

The delay in resolving this has been purely down to the time taken by both Marstons and the council in responding to my complaints.

 

I complained immediately to the police in writing, they sent an officer to my house to ask how i would like it resolved. I wasnt expecting the officer and it was on my birthday, first thing in the morning, so to say i was taken aback was an understatement. The police officer insisted on coming in and sitting with me to run through my complaint, i said i wasnt sure how i would like it resolved at the time but would get in touch if i needed anything else from them, ie- a statement!

 

I have asked in every letter back and forth with the council if the car has been sold, they still havent answered me. If they took the car to sell it to cover the arrears, then my opinion is i should not have to pay storage!

 

I have researched this thoroughly and it IS unlawful to take an excessive levy and secondly to take a tool of someones trade.

 

To sum up, i have followed all proper procedures in terms of complaining to the council, the police and the ombudsman but have got nowhere and it just seems unbelievable that i can do absolutely nothing about this! And to add insult to injury, Marstons have started to pursue us for the arrears again!!! So whats happened to the funds from my car if its been sold?!

 

Any help appreciated. Thank you x

[lookinforinfo]

Nikkitch,

I am sorry to say this but I think you have to forget about trying to say that the levy was excessive.

 

The bailiff had instructions from the Court to get £217 from you and

he obviously didn't feel that there was enough value in the goods inside the house to cover the cost of the fine plus his fees.

 

If those were the circumstances, then it may well be that the alternative was to levy on the car.

 

As was explained in an earlier post, goods at auction often only fetch about 10% of their original value and cars around 25%.

 

So a £2000 car may only fetch £500 at auction which is hardly excessive when you add in the bailiffs fees,

storage while the car is awaiting the sale date, plus the auctioneer costs.

 

In fact, if the bailiff has overcharged you, a figure of around £500 may not even cover all the costs and the fine,

which may be why the bailiff is after you again.

 

However there are other complaints you could use.

 

1] first one is the bailiff barging into your property.

2] the Police aiding and abetting the bailiff

3] the bailiff not being certificated [this would depend on what actions he carried out ]

4] you could have paid the sum over time without the need to remove the car thus saving you a huge loss but making the bailiff company much more profit

5]the Council refusing your offer of payment

6] unlawful fees charged by the bailiff

7] I am sure you have others

 

you do need to write to the Council and ask them for an up to date figure of fees charged with dates

when incurred and who the bailiff was at the time.

 

You also need confirmation of what has happened to your car either its sale price [and where it was sold if it was sold] or the storage fees.

 

Advise them that following their response you will be complaining to the Ombudsman about their behaviour

and that of their bailiffs including the slow time in which they have responded to your grievances.

[nikkikitch]

Hi

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

What about taking a tool of my trade? I am on the road constantly and need my car to transport equipment.

 

Thanks

[lookinforinfo]

That is a tricky one Nikkitch.

It's not straight forward because you may use your car for other things than your business at times. Also if some one else drives it on occasion then it would be hard for a Court to justify the bailiff was wrong to take it.

The other problem now of course is that under the new regulations that the bailiff has to work from, if the tools of your trade come to more than £1350 then your car would be fair game. And of course you have managed without your car for some considerable time now albeit at quite an extra cost to yourself. Your argument would be that there were no cost constrictions when they took your car so while you could include it, I wouldn't make it one of your main arguments.

[nikkikitch]

Thanks.

 

I offered three times whilst the bailiff was on my property to pay what was owed and the council would not accept it. And to be pursued again for the same bill is just outrageous! I appreciate a car might fetch a lot less at auction but it would still fetch enough to cover the council tax bill, the LEGAL bailiffs costs and then some!

[unclebulgaria67]

Thanks.

 

I offered three times whilst the bailiff was on my property to pay what was owed and the council would not accept it. And to be pursued again for the same bill is just outrageous! I appreciate a car might fetch a lot less at auction but it would still fetch enough to cover the council tax bill, the LEGAL bailiffs costs and then some!

 

You could probably make an application to a court to get an injunction to stop the sale of the car, but I am not sure of the process for this and cost.

[lookinforinfo]

If they still haven't sold the car then the storage fees at £15 per day will be over £5000.

[HCEOs]

Hi

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

What about taking a tool of my trade? I am on the road constantly and need my car to transport equipment.

 

Thanks

 

For info, in my experience in various courts, your vehicle is unlikely to be exempt from seizure as a tool of the trade.

[tomtubby]

nikkikitch

 

I am sorry to say that I have had very little time this past week to read posts on here. You have posted back here a year after your car was taken and I am shocked that you have NO IDEA at all whether or not your car has been sold or is still in storage !!! Have you WRITTEN to Marston Group for clarification?

 

If you have written what is the response?

 

You say that you have received a new letter from Marston Group. Can you provide details of EXACTLY the amount of the debt showing as due to the council AND the amount of any fees. From this information it may be possible to establish whether or not the car has been sold or not.

 

Can you also post back with the amount originally demanded (at the time that your car was removed).

[nikkikitch]

Hi

 

When they seized the car, I was told it would be sold in 7 days so they cannot possibly be able to charge me storage can they? The whole point in removing the car was to sell it cover the arrears.

 

At all stages of my complaint I have asked for clarification of the whereabouts of my car. In the last correspondence from Marstons, they said it was going to be sold the next week, that was a few months ago. I asked for clarification of this from the council in my stage 3 letter but they did not confirm it in their response. I have gone back to them and asked AGAIN for clarification and also an up to date breakdown of the charges applied to my account.

 

Just to add, this is a joint council tax account for a house I used to share. The latest letter is the only letter with both of our names on and was sent to my address. My old housemate has given Marstons her address now. But obviously we do not want to have to pay when they have my car.

 

The whole thing is farcical, any help appreciated.

 

Thanks

[unclebulgaria67]

Hi

 

When they seized the car, I was told it would be sold in 7 days so they cannot possibly be able to charge me storage can they? The whole point in removing the car was to sell it cover the arrears.

 

At all stages of my complaint I have asked for clarification of the whereabouts of my car. In the last correspondence from Marstons, they said it was going to be sold the next week, that was a few months ago. I asked for clarification of this from the council in my stage 3 letter but they did not confirm it in their response. I have gone back to them and asked AGAIN for clarification and also an up to date breakdown of the charges applied to my account.

 

Just to add, this is a joint council tax account for a house I used to share. The latest letter is the only letter with both of our names on and was sent to my address. My old housemate has given Marstons her address now. But obviously we do not want to have to pay when they have my car.

 

The whole thing is farcical, any help appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

I really think that you need to see if the LGO will take this complaint over now, as from what you are saying the council have given up responding to you in any meaningful way.

 

http://www.lgo.org.uk/contactus/

 

This is the only way I can see you getting anywhere, unless you have money available to get a Solicitor who deals with such matters.

[nikkikitch]

Hi

 

Yes I've already put my complaint in with the LGO. I hope i can get somewhere with it!

I'm also considering complaining to my local MP!

[unclebulgaria67]

Hi

 

Yes I've already put my complaint in with the LGO. I hope i can get somewhere with it!

I'm also considering complaining to my local MP!

 

Don't just consider it. Do it. Most MP's have email addresses noted on their websites.

[tomtubby]

I am astounded to hear that neither Marston Group OR the council have confirmed one way or another whether or not the vehicle has been sold. I find this totally unacceptable.

 

You will note that in my post number 66 above I had asked you to provide details of the precise amount demanded in the new letter that you have received. The reason why I had asked for this information is because the letter may provide a clue as to whether the car has been sold. For instance, if the debt before the removal had been £1,000 and is now £200 it would most likely mean that the car HAD been sold and the proceeds allocated against the outstanding debt.

 

A Complaint to the LGO should only ever be made after the local authority have been given an opportunity to address the complaint and it would seem that you have given the council a lot of time to address the matter. As the complaint is now with the LGO it would not be appropriate for a complaint to be made as well to your MP. The LGO procedure normally takes approx 12 weeks. When did you send your complaint to them?

 

Could you also address the query that I raised above regarding the amount requested in the latest letter from Marston Group.

[brassnecked]

You can write to your MP directly after any LGO investigation is concluded via www.writetothem.com They need to know about these shenanigans.

[nikkikitch]

Sorry i should have been more clear, the last letter i received from Marstons was one informing me that legislation had changed and that there was a new fee structure for enforcement, it did not include any information on the remaining balance.

 

I have just called them to ask if my car has been sold and to ask what amount is still owed and they told me i would have to speak to the bailiff. ARRRGGGHH. So i've just emailed them AGAIN asking for a breakdown of the amount owed and asked about the whereabouts of my car.

 

I just keep getting passed around. I have gone through a stage 3 complaint with the council now so next stage is the Ombudsman.

[Kenny 1]

Ok

 

this has been going on for the best part of a year now and you still have the bailiffs on your back

making unrealistic demands for more money that you cannot afford to pay.

 

I have read through your thread and your in danger of becoming a regular cash cow for Marstons (or whoever bailiff company visits you next)

if you dont do something about this now.

 

I have read some of the replies and advice you have been given and while its well meant

and the posters are well informed and have a knowledge of current bailiff legislation

and countless bodies you can write to when it comes down to the nitty gritty

and they are on your doorstep all of that will cut no ice whatsoever, of that i can assure you.

 

The people you are dealing with have no wish to discuss payment plans,

these are not reasonable people you can sit down with and discuss a way forward

,they are not trained for it,

they dont turn up at your door with that in mind,

never have done and never will.

 

Bailiffs are interested in one thing,

cash,the more the better.

 

They dont really want your car or your goods.

They are not looking to carry out a levy on goods in your house,

its cold hard cash they are after.

 

Had they not got their hands on your logbook and keys your car would never have been taken

and by the same token had they not got through your door your goods wouldnt have ended up on the drive.

 

You have to remember that these people are a breed apart from the rest of us.

 

Its obvious that the car when taken would have covered the debt and then some,

 

your own personal stuff was never going to be taken,

 

it was done to cause you the maximum grief and embarassment possible (im surprised no one picked up on that)

 

I have had more dealings with bailiffs when i had debts than i care to mention.

 

Marstons,Bristows,task you name it they have come knocking at one time or another.

 

Some of them nasty,

some not,

some make it known to all in the street who they are and why they have turned up,

some didnt,

some shouting through windows,

police involved the lot.

 

I could write a book on it.

 

Times have changed for us now but i can tell you this you can write letters to the council all day long,

you can ask how many liability orders there are and when they were issued,

you can quote legislation till your blue in the face,

it will make no difference.

 

You are not dealing with a credit card company or your high st bank or your mortgage lender,these people do not discuss terms.

 

Now im sure you have done some research on this (or you should have done)

dont go on these beat the bailiff websites,

freemen of the land and suchlike they are full of rubbish and utter claptrap,

i will set out in bullet points what you need to do,

 

Stop all correspondence with a bailiff company,

do not talk to them or write letters to them or any of their departments

(it wouldnt do you any good anyway)

 

If they call at your house do not talk to them and whatever you do do not let them in your home.

If they park up outside your house and start knocking on your door,

just keep quiet and believe me they will go.

 

I reckon on average three times at your address with no joy will see them off

(that was always the case with me).

 

The so- called warrant which is really just permission from the courts for the bailiff to recover the debt

will be returned to the council for further action and that is what your looking for

because then you can think about paying the debt in question at a rate you can afford.

 

I had this discussion with Severn Trent Water a few years back.

I told them that i wouldnt be dealing with the bailiffs they had instructed

and after the warrant was returned a reasonable payment arrangement was agreed and the bill was paid.

 

Now,

a lot has been said about bailiff charges and it has come up in your thread.

 

I have never paid a penny in charges once the warrants has been returned,

no fees were ever added to the debts i owed.

 

I may have been lucky i just dont know,

my guess is if they could not recover the debt there was little chance in getting costs but thats just assumption.

 

You must get the warrant returned to the council then the fog will clear and you will be able to settle your debt(if there is one)

and find out what happened to your vehicle,

it wont happen while you have a bailiff company on your back.

[nikkikitch]

Hi

 

So i have finally had confirmation from the council of the charges on my account and situation with my car. My blood is boiling!

 

They said the original liability order was for £541.46 then have outlined the bailiff charges as follows:

 

£24.50 first visit

£29.20 levy

£140 Van fee

£60 waiting time

£120 waiting time

£140 tow truck

£318 auctioneers fees

 

Total charges £841.70

 

My car was sold for £1,100 apparently, so the reason I am now being pursued again is because there is £293.16 outstanding.

 

I know from my original research that these bailiff fees are illegal. I was also told by the bailiff that the liability order was for £217 so I have asked the council for a copy.

 

In any case, the bailiff was not certificated. I have an email from the Northampton County Court confirming that he was not on the register which i have forwarded to the Ombudsman.

 

Even if the outstanding council tax arrears were £541, the legal charges on that list are the first visit fee and a reasonable amount for a removal van which after talking to national debtline is classed as a day hire rate divided between how many times it is used in that day. The removal van wasn't used, the tow truck was. So, if the bill was £541 + the LEGAL charges, that should total £625.96 meaning I'm owed £474!!!

 

I am now seriously considering seeking damages through the small claims court. The stress this has caused is unreal and now I'm getting knocks on the door from Marstons trying to get more money!!!

[tomtubby]

Nikkikitch

 

I am sorry to hear that the vehicle was sold. More on this later. At the moment there appears to be some errors with the fees.

 

The regulations do NOT provide for 'waiting time'. I would also like to question the 'auctioneers fees' of £318. This cannot be correct at all and this is because the statutory regulations specifically provide that the auctioneers expenses (which include commission and out of pocket expenses) may NOT exceed 'an aggregate of 15% of the sum REALISED. Accordingly, I calculate that the amount should not be £318 but is limited to approx £150.

 

You need to be very careful with whom you complain to. This is because if you take legal action through the courts then the LGO cannot deal with your enquiry.

[dx100uk]

surely they cannot charge van fee & tow truck

 

as the idea of the van fee is for that vehicle to be capable of removing the item under levy

 

so either the tow truck or the van fee are unlawful?

 

dx

[tomtubby]

In fact under the old regs (which this account would have been under) there is the provision to charge a maximum of two "attending to remove" fees. The 2nd such fee may ONLY be charged in the event that goods were ACTUALLY removed.

 

It is vitally important to get the company to provide details of the date on which the fees had been charged.