British Credit Trust - Charging Order on Home

[OLIVE.FAMILY]

Hi all.

 

In 2005 we STUPIDLY were sold Protacoat for the front of our house. We had just purchased and moved into my recently deceased dads house. We all took the loss of my dad really hard. My son especially. We had decided that maybe having the house coated in this Protecoat would make it more of our house and less of dads. Big mistake.

 

Any way for those who don.t know me in 2006 we had run into huge financial problems to the point of having to go to court three times last year to save my house.

 

BCT in honestly were completly forgotten about and they have left us alone for a year as well. Untill the weekend.

 

the exact amount borrowed i cant remember. I am currently digging out the paperwork. I believ it was around £6000. WE had a letter the other day and it was set like this

 

Total amount payable(including charges) 14,768

less payments received(including deposit)2,438

balance outstanding 12,330

 

so somehow this has doubled. WE have 14 days to submit proposals for settling this. I want to do this properly so any suggestions please

 

olives xxx

[42man]

If it was me I would start out by sending a CCA request.....and a SAR might also be a good idea too...(if you need any help with these just give me a shout)...

 

CCA you can find here - LETTER 'N' - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

Send recorded with a £1 postal order

 

SAR unfortunately costs £10 again send recorded....

 

Data Protection Act 1998

 

Subject Access Request

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

sign your name but put crosses through it so it can't be 'lifted'

[OLIVE.FAMILY]

Thanx for that 42man. I take it that this gives me a bit of breathing space if it is sent with in the 14days they have asked???

 

olives xx

[Lula]

Hi, yes I beleive sending the SAR puts the account into dispute so should halt any proceedings until things have been sorted

[OLIVE.FAMILY]

Excellent, Cheers for that Lula xx

[42man]

The SAR won't put it into dispute, the SAR is simply a request for information (they MUST comply in 40 days)....the CCA request will (if they don't respond in 12+2 working days)......

 

This is the follow up letter if they don't send the CCA request after 12+2 working days

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

THIS IS THE PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT STATES WHY....

 

SCHEDULE

SECTIONS OF THE ACT IN RESPECT OF WHICH A PERIOD OF 12 WORKING DAYS IS PRESCRIBED RELATING TO DUTIES IN

RELATION TO REGULATED AGREEMENTS

Regulation 2

Section of the

Act

Duty

(1) (2)

77(1) Duty to give information to debtor under fixed-sum credit agreement.

78(1) Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement.

79(1) Duty to give information to hirer under consumer hire agreement.

and section 78 for running credit

 

 

78.

Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement.

— (1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [F1 £1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a)

the state of the account, and

 

(b)

the amount, if any currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

 

©

the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

 

 

(2) If the creditor possesses insufficient information to enable him to ascertain the amounts and dates mentioned in subsection (1)©, he shall be taken to comply with that paragraph if his statement under subsection (1) gives the basis on which, under the regulated agreement, they would fall to be ascertained.

 

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to—

(a)

an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become, payable by the debtor, or

 

(b)

a request made less than one month after a previous request under that subsection relating to the same agreement was complied with.

 

 

(4) Where running-account credit is provided under a regulated agreement, the creditor shall give the debtor statements in the prescribed form, and with the prescribed contents—

(a)

showing according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer, the state of the account at regular intervals of not more than twelve months, and

 

(b)

where the agreement provides, in relation to specified periods, for the making of payments by the debtor, or the charging against him of interest or any other sum, showing according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer the state of the account at the end of each of those periods during which there is any movement in the account.

 

 

(5) A statement under subsection (4) shall be given within the prescribed period after the end of the period to which the statement relates.

 

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a)

he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement

(7) This section does not apply to a non-commercial agreement, and subsections (4) and (5) do not apply to a small agreement

[42man]

They must also have defaulted you and the default notice must be in the correct format.....

 

A SAR should also reveal any excessive charges too !!

[OLIVE.FAMILY]

Thankyou sooooo much guys. I will keep you posted xx

[OLIVE.FAMILY]

Well BCT were on the ball. I received the Credit Agreement over the weekend. It looks ok to me. Both me and Hubby have signed it and so has BCT. The only discrepincy I can see is that the description of goods and services says it was for block paving when infact it was Protecoat wall covering on the front of my house. The amount is defo wrong in their lettter as we borrowed £6,310. So it looks like the rest is charges then. As their letter said I have paid £2,438 I only need to pay them £3872 is there any way I can get the interest stoppped and just pay them this amount in a small installment ?????

 

olives xx

[OLIVE.FAMILY]

Just realised that the statement was in the same letter(only looked at it quickly before and thought the other pages were all T &Cs). The charges they added have actually only come to just over £300. The starting balance was £13,965 and I am apparently £3,293 in arrears. I am assuming that the starting balance is the interest as like I said before we only borrowed £6,310.

 

Any advice would be great

 

olives xx

[OLIVE.FAMILY]

Just wanna bump this up a bit as I really am not sure what to do next. I have no objections to paying the £3000 but not really wanting to pay the £12000

 

olives xx

[OLIVE.FAMILY]

bump xx

[OLIVE.FAMILY]

Hello again all,

OK can't stop thinking about this one as I want to get to them with a reply before this 14 days business is up. I think me trying to get them for the different reason for borrowing is clutching at straws. At the end of the day we borrowed the money regardless what is was for.

Me and hubby have been thinking about this though. Like I said before we were not thinking clearly at the time as we were still emotional about my dad. When we were applyng for all this it was actually the salesman that applied for the loan on our beahlf. He done alll the paperwork and just brought it round for us to sign. There was no cooling off pperiod like we had for our secured loan. We had also beeen turned down for one loan so it went off and found anouther for us. All in all we feel almost that it was mis sold even though there was no PPI on it. Is that possible??????

 

Also this business of the loan starting at £13000 when we only borrowed £6000 as I said earlier this is obviously intrest, but what If I oaid it early?? would they work it out again?? if so then why say that we owe that much?? we have only oweed the money for 3 years not the full 10years.

 

 

Sorry so many questions but I really dont know what to say to them next. All my other debts are so much more straight forward to sort than this

 

olives xx

[OLIVE.FAMILY]

Hi all.

 

This isn a link to my previous post on the General Debt Forum. Not getting much of a reply there so maybe I posted in the wrong area(nevermind).

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/180065-british-credit-trust.html

 

My dear o/h is starting to panic a bit as he has been doing some research and has discovered that these guys can be a bit tricky. They mainly deal with car finance and go onto reposses them but as this is for something covering the front of my house they may find that a bit tricky.

 

I am really not sure what I can do. I am useles with letters as I do tend to rant and not get to the point. Could somebody have read and advise if they can

 

Thankyou muchly

 

olives xxxx

[blipvert]

are you sure the agreement has all the prescribed terms in the correct format etc etc. might be a good idea to have one of the old lags pick over it. If you post it up here, make sure all identifiers have been removed, including barcodes.

Edited February 3, 2009 by blipvert
typo

[OLIVE.FAMILY]

Ok will do that now.

 

Thankyooooou

 

olives xxx

[OLIVE.FAMILY]

Ok Hope you can read this

 

 

 

 

xx

[OLIVE.FAMILY]

 

And this is the Terms and Conditions. I can also post the two pages of statement s if you like.

 

olives xx

[blipvert]

well, it doesn't have a total payable (£13920) but whether or not that renders it unenforceable i just don't know. Personally, I'd have thought had that been present, it would have helped you make an informed decision. Also, as you say, the goods are mis-described.

 

making this update will bump it, hopefully one of the experienced peeps will catch it.

[Pinky69]

The required prescribed terms are all there BUT the total price for credit must be on the agreement. This doesn't of itself make it unenforceable but it means it could only be enforced in court. You cannot check the figures either because they are not all there, the total being missing. I personally would put this account into dispute on the grounds the total amount for credit was never given - I doubt if any judge would be too pleased about that either.

[OLIVE.FAMILY]

By the total price i take it you mean the £13000 they state on the statement as opening balance ????

[Pinky69]

Yes - that should have been on the agreement.

[OLIVE.FAMILY]

Ok. Thankyou Pinky I didnt know that. So what should be my best course of action then?

[Pinky69]

To be honest with you, this is not a case of them not providing an agreement or an agreement without the required prescribed terms - it's a question of how a court is likely to look at it when one of the prescribed terms ie the amount for credit, is incomplete. I have had a look at the OFT website on this and they say it can still be enforced in court ie it would be at the discretion of the judge. That being the case, I don't think anyone could advise you further on the legality of this agreement. I suggest you take legal advice on it to weigh up the possibilities - you can get a solicitors advice for free for the initial consultation.

[OLIVE.FAMILY]

OK Pinky once again many thanx. TBH when I received the CCA as it was signed I didnt think I could do an awful lot. I dont mind setting a payment up with them either but not for £13000. I will try and write to them ststing that only £6000 was on the agreement and therefore this is what I will pay in instalments of blah blah blah and see what they say to that. Do you think its worth mentioning also that the reason for borrowing was wrong as well or is that just nit picking and doesnt really matter.

 

olives xx