Gold's Gym Hounslow, Harlands & CRS

[vjanon]

Your team's invaluable advice and slicks letter has got me so far now I am stuck and forced to make a thread about my very unique situation. Here the key points:

 

I had been paying monthly to Gold's after initial 12 month fixed period, I moved to USA temporarily last year in Jan 2013. I returned for 1 month to UK and called to cancel (big mistake) in August 2013. I was told my membership was cancelled.

 

I cancelled my DD and a month later i get a £25 admin charge on top of usual bill, I called again (big mistake i know) to tell them I had already called to cancel a month ago so I was AGAIN told my membership was cancelled and i did not have to pay anything.

 

I get back to the UK and this year I get a letter in April 2014 from CRS demanding payment of £400, that's 8 Months later. The letter says 'despite previous letters sent to you' but i have not received any, if i did i would have paid an extra month off last year.

 

OFT Consumer advice said i should speak to Gold's not CRS as the contract was with Gold's. I wrote a letter via recorded delivery requesting a true copy of my contract within 7 days and explained to them the situation: that their advisors had told me on TWO occasions that my membership was cancelled and i was never notified about the cancellation process when they sold me the contract nor the TWO times i called to cancel.

 

I mentioned that Harlands Group that handles the payments and CRS as well signed an OFT agreement with the following terms saying they in breach if :

 

2. Failing to contractually require its clients (i.e. Golds Gym) to notify prospective members in the sales process, whether ORALLY or in writing, key features of the membership including but not limited to length and cancellation rights.

 

The scanned true copy of that doc is here(this may help others):

w w w. oft . gov. uk / shared_oft /consumer-enforcement /Harlands-undertakings . pdf

 

Now, Gold's Gym have written back ignoring everything. Simply stating "please refer to t&C 10a for more infomation' they have quoted the part that says they require 30 days written notice. They also say management contacted me but after no response they referred me to CRS and said any documents with reference to your membership please contact CRS. No copy of contract and no reply to my allegations.

 

I am stuck now. Legally I should have a written notice because i signed. But since this new agreement with OFT isn't there some way I can sort this out ? Also they have not sent any previous letters, I am unemployed since returning from USA and they let the debt build up before telling me 8 months later. In addition I called Golds twice and they still didn't inform me of the process and lied. Golds gym have also told me my membership is not cancelled until I pay my account balance with CRS, then they require a written notice. I am ignoring that and doing it right now. Please help if you can.

[BankFodder]

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/consumer-enforcement/Harlands-undertakings.pdf

[slick132]

Hi Vjanon and welcome to CAG

 

More info please :-

 

1. When did you join the gym approx.

 

2. Who did you call to cancel, the gym or Harlands.

 

3. When was the last DD pay't taken from the bank before the mandate was cancelled.

 

Don't worry about this. Harlands/CRS (they're the same company) can add all the admin charges they want but they remain unlawful penalties which we maintain are not enforceable.

 

We'll help you with this but, in the meantime, ignore Harlands and CRS completely. Also, stop calling them and the gym. You will get no help from any of them.

 

[vjanon]

Thank you so much slick132,

 

In reply to your questions

 

I joined the gym in March 2011, my last attendance at the gym was Jan 2013.

 

I called the Gym to cancel in August 2013 and the last DD payment was taken in September 2013.

 

I was told my membership was cancelled on two occasions by Gym staff, I went back to America, not knowing they were building up my debt behind my back. I only realized when i got a letter this year on April 2014 asking for £400 (£100 charges) from CRS. I told CRS I am disputing the debt with Gold's and they put my account on hold for 10 days, but that is now over.

 

Just received another letter from CRS today, saying 'we are disappoined your account is still in arrears' They say they have two options

 

1: legal action - write a formal letter explaining the demand and give you final chance to pay

2. Outsource to external collector

 

I may have to settle for a reduced sum if they are willing to do so...what do you think?

Edited May 21, 2014 by vjanon

[vjanon]

I have been doing more digging and found that Harlands group has agreed terms with OFT in September 2013 (coincidently) stating very clearly that their:

 

'Suite of standard debt collection

correspondence and staff training

materials used to communicate with

consumers in arrears revised in line

with the standards published in OFT

guidance, for example the Debt

Collection Guidance, the Irresponsible

Lending Guidance and the CSA/DBSG

guidance on standard letters. '

 

They are in breach of a number of key things:

 

Irresponsible lending guidance - failing to inform the borrower when he has gone into arrears (as set out in 86b of Consumer Credit Act)

 

86b - withing a period of 14 days they should give notice if payments are missed and b) after giving notice shall further give notices under this section at intervals of NOT more than 6 months.

 

I have had this debt building secretly since Sept 2013 and they sent their 1st letter making me aware 8 months later. Surely I have some grounds on this ?

[slick132]

Hi Vj,

 

I sincerely hope you do not try to settle at a reduced sum with Harlands. This merely encourages them to continue with their tactics against others.

 

I think you have absolutely no need to negotiate settlement terms that Harlands are happy with.

 

We can assist you in dealing with them by explaining that, even if Golds failed to tell Harlands you'd phoned to cancel, the cancellation of the DD mandate is, in itself, clear notice of your intention to cancel. This is backed by a High Court ruling from 2011.

 

Irresponsible lending does not come into the equation here. No lending is involved.

 

However, you are right that Harlands have agreed to abide by the OFT's guidance about fairness with gym agreements.

 

I'll look in later and suggest a letter for you to send, if you are still wanting to stand up to Harlands and their Modus Operandi.

 

[vjanon]

Thanks slick,

 

I don't want to settle at all, if you could help id really appreciate it. They keep quoting the written notice cancellation term to me, I'm not happy I wasn't made aware of this debt until now.

 

Hi Vj,

 

I sincerely hope you do not try to settle at a reduced sum with Harlands. This merely encourages them to continue with their tactics against others.

 

I think you have absolutely no need to negotiate settlement terms that Harlands are happy with.

 

We can assist you in dealing with them by explaining that, even if Golds failed to tell Harlands you'd phoned to cancel, the cancellation of the DD mandate is, in itself, clear notice of your intention to cancel. This is backed by a High Court ruling from 2011.

 

Irresponsible lending does not come into the equation here. No lending is involved.

 

However, you are right that Harlands have agreed to abide by the OFT's guidance about fairness with gym agreements.

 

I'll look in later and suggest a letter for you to send, if you are still wanting to stand up to Harlands and their Modus Operandi.

 

[slick132]

Hi VJ,

 

I'm glad you're prepared to stand up to Harlands over this. Harlands have no right to demand written notice. The court case I referred to above confirmed that cancellation can be made verbally in person or by phone; in writing by letter or email; by cancellation of the DD mandate; or by simply not attending.

 

Letter to Harlands as follows :-

 

Dear sir or madam,

 

I refer to demands send by you, both as Harlands and as CRS .

 

I deny owing anything to you in membership fees as I cancelled my membership after giving the gym a month's notice. I also deny owing you anything in respect of admin fees - these are unlawful penalty charges which are not enforceable at law.

 

I joined Golds gym in March 2011 for 12 months. I had been out of the country and not using the gym at all so, when I returned to the UK in August 2013, I called Gold to confirm that I was cancelling the membership agreement. Golds said that was fine so I paid the September 2013 DD and then cancelled the DD mandate.

 

I have no idea why you say I owe any more than has already been paid.

 

If you continue to make demands either as Harlands or CRS, I will make a formal complaint to Trading Standards about you harassing me when you have no right or reason to do so.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Let us know how they respond.

 

Edited May 22, 2014 by slick132
layout

[vjanon]

thank you so much slick ! much appreciated i will send that now, just a quick thing - would Harlands come under that high court ruling or only ashbourne? I just want to be prepared

 

thank you again

[slick132]

Hi Vj,

 

The ruling in the case of The OFT v Ashbourne Mgt Services Ltd was made by Mr Justice Kitchin in the High Court. The ruling can therefore be seen as setting legal precedent that can be applied to any other similar cases.

 

We have helped many other CAGgers explain this to Harlands but they continue to try and avoid the obvious and pretend it doesn't apply to them. They know they are fighting a losing battle but appear oblivious to the obvious !!

 

[vjanon]

you are a god among men ! i did not know that. I will push this to the end if I have to. Financial Ombudsman wrote to them on my behalf explaining what happened - I have sent your letter explaining what WILL happen !