What are my chances in small claims? Rejected car.

[jrb1989]

Hi guys,

 

I purchased a car 2 weeks ago from a second hand dealer. I drove it the next day and on the way home (at night) and realised that the lighting on the dash had gone. I couldn't see how fast I was going, how much fuel I had etc. I thought, "I'll take that back tomorrow and get that fixed."

 

The next morning (less than 48 hours after purchase), I noticed a massive oil puddle under the car I've just bought. I drove the car back to the dealer and he apologized and got a mechanic from the garage next door to take a look. When he dipped the tank, there was zero oil left n the car, it was bone dry. The mechanic said it was a rear crank shaft oil seal that had gone and that although the seal itself is cheap, labour costs would be substantial.

 

The dealer said that he would cover the costs but would have to get his own mechanic to take a look. This mechanic was on holiday and would not be back until Monday. (Today was Friday). I said it wasn't ideal because I'd have to find a way to get to work, but I'd deal with it, so I got a lift where I could. I did ask if I could use a courtesy car and his worker said there were no cars available and even if there were, I would not be insured.

 

When the Monday came, he phoned me and said that he had ordered the seal and that the worng one had turned up. He was very sorry, but I would have to wait a further 4 days. Thinking there wasn't much I could do, I thought I'd be reasonable and get a hire car, so paid £142 for a hire car for this 4 days.

 

The day came when it was going to be fixed and surprise, surprise....another phone call and another delay. A friend of mine who is a mechanic (but unfortunately lives the other side of the UK) told me that the laour time for this job is about 5 hours tops. This time, I wasn't prepared to wait any more or pay out for taxis or hire cars and so I said I wanted my money back instead. I said I'd waited enough for this repair and the car was not useable.

 

When I phoned and explained to the dealer that I wanted my money back, I explained that I was having to pay out daily costs for taxis, hire cars etc to which he asked why I didn't get given a courtesy car. When I told him I had asked and was told no by his co-worker, he apologized and said that I had been given the wrong information and there were indeed a choice of 5 cars I could have used!

 

Having these faults within 24 hours and still not fixed 13 days later, I persisted and said I wanted my money back. (The £1000 I paid on debit card and the £400 trade in I got for my car). When I asked if the car had been PDI tested, he said it had not been and "do you really think I'd sell you the car if I knew it was like this? Trust me it's as much trouble for us as it is for you."

 

He then said the car was not actually his and it was another dealers. He would phone them and see what they wanted to do! 20 mins later he called and said the dealer said he wasn't willing to give me a refund and I'd just have to "wait it out." I said that this was unacceptable and that the receipt was for his dealership, not someone else's and the money was paid to his dealership too!

 

He asked if I wanted him to repair the vehicle when he gets round to it and I said he could do as he wished as I was rejecting the car back to him and would not be driving it again. The car is still with the dealer with the faults. I ended the call and have written a letter stating why I want a refund and that I would like a refund/response within 14 days. The letter was sent tracked as well. My question is.....what sort of chance do I stand if this goes to small claims?

 

(Sorry in advance for using too much info, I didn't want to leave anything important out so thought I'd give as much detail as possible!)

[rebel11]

Hi jrb1989

 

Welcome to CAG

 

Here is the OFT's guide for second hand car dealers.

 

*** http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/676408/oft1241.pdf ***

 

You could contact your card provider to carry out a Chargeback.

 

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/how-do-i-use-chargeback

 

Then ask him to return the 'trade in car', also ask him to compensate.

[jrb1989]

Thanks for the advice! I'll have a go at charge back

[BankFodder]

How did you pay? Did you pay with a debit or credit card? If so then as suggested by Rebel, chargeback or s.75 Consumer Credit Act may be the answer.

If you paid by cash or cheque then the situation is more difficult.

 

The dealer who supplied you with the car is liable. Don't pay any attention to what he has said.

Don't hold your breath on the chargeback. Your bank won't be happy and they will prevaricate at every turn. If they do help you then good for them - but I'll be surprised. Also, the bank won't refund you the additional costs you have incurred.

 

Your chances with a small claim are excellent - better than 95%. You have done well to give him 14 days notice. You must be as good as your word and at the expiry of the 14 days you must issue the claim without any further notice or any delay.

Make sure that you claim for all of the reasonable expenses you have incurred. By the way, how much did you pay for the car? The whole claim must be less than £10k to keep it within the small claims limit.

 

Use the intervening time to read around and to understand the simple procedure of bringing a small claim in the county court.

Write out a full - bullet pointed account of everything that has happened and what it has cost you. Assemble all of the bills/invoices that you have collected in respect of this matter. Register with moneyclaim and start writing out your claim which you can save in draft so that at day 15 - you can simply press the button and issue the claim.

[jrb1989]

Hi BankFodder,

 

Thanks for your reply. I paid £1400. £1000 on debit card and I got £400 for my car trade in (which is now up for £1750!). I also received a response to my original letter this morning telling me:

-I was advised at point of sale that the warranty only covers the engine and gearbox

-I was happy to originally take a repair and that the other faults I reported did not effect the safety of the car (lights on speedo not working, air con not working and blowing hot air, bonnet release cable needed re attaching). They undertook all the jobs "not covered by the warranty."

-The delay was only small due to circumstances eyond their control and the car has now been ready since 13th May. It cost them £250 in labour and parts to repair the vehicle.

-The vehicle holds no profit for them and they have accepted a loss as a good will gesture.

-They would not have done the work on the car if I didn't want the vehicle back.

-I need to collect the rejected vehicle efore Monday 19th May. If I do not, they will put it in their storage yard and charge me £25 per day.

 

I'm just amazed by this sense of "goodwill gesture" of fixing a car bought from a dealer that was taken back the very next day as doing me a favour. Wouldn't they have needed to do the work anyway in order to sell it?

Since this is the response within 14 days from my letter, should I wait until the end of the 14 days from my previous letter or go straight to small claims now I have a response.

 

Thanks for your help!

[BankFodder]

Disregard what they say about the warranty. You are completely protected under the Sale of Goods Act and given the extent of the problem and the fact that it happened so quickly after the purchase, you entitled to a full refund plus refund of any reasonably incurred expenses.

Follow the advice I have suggested above and don't be swayed or delayed by any attempts to negotiate or to reach any compromise. Clearly this is not a dealer you can trust.

[rebel11]

Here's some useful info:-

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/law_w/law_legal_system_e/law_taking_legal_action_e/small_claims.htm

 

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/action/letter-before-small-claims-court-claim

[jrb1989]

Followed your advice and written everything in bullet points (and chronological order). I'm about to fill in the claim forms as well.

 

With regards to the £25 a day storage fee that he wants to charge me unless I pick the car up, I presume I ignore this and leave the car with him?

 

Rebel11, those links were very helpful!

 

Thanks again for all your help

[rebel11]

Hi jrb1989

 

Have you sent him an Letter Before Action - Recorded Delivery? Don't submit the claim form, until he has responded to the LBA.

 

Yes, you have no choice regards storage fee / leave the car with him.

 

Followed your advice and written everything in bullet points (and chronological order). I'm about to fill in the claim forms as well.

 

With regards to the £25 a day storage fee that he wants to charge me unless I pick the car up, I presume I ignore this and leave the car with him?

 

Rebel11, those links were very helpful!

 

Thanks again for all your help

[jrb1989]

Hi Rebel11,

 

I have ony sent the original letter stating that I'd like a refund within 14 days and all the things wrong with the car etc. The LBA template says about mediation and ADR, should I just cut this out of my letter as negotiation has not been successful? I was also being mindful of Bankfodder's advice: " don't be swayed or delayed by any attempts to negotiate or to reach any compromise.."

[rebel11]

Hi jrb1989

 

Yep, you can remove that.

 

Hi Rebel11,

 

I have ony sent the original letter stating that I'd like a refund within 14 days and all the things wrong with the car etc. The LBA template says about mediation and ADR, should I just cut this out of my letter as negotiation has not been successful? I was also being mindful of Bankfodder's advice: " don't be swayed or delayed by any attempts to negotiate or to reach any compromise.."

[jrb1989]

Hi guys, just writing the LBA now. Where it says "provide a summary of the facts for dispute," I presume this means a shorter version of the chronological bullet pointed list of events?

 

Also, final question, what documentation should I ask the dealer for?

[rebel11]

Hi jrb1989

 

Yes a shorten summary, but meaningful. Is there any documentation you need from him? if not you can remove that bit.

 

Hi guys, just writing the LBA now. Where it says "provide a summary of the facts for dispute," I presume this means a shorter version of the chronological bullet pointed list of events?

 

Also, final question, what documentation should I ask the dealer for?

[oddjobbob]

OP you need to be a bit careful here... if the dealer has fixed the car then you might struggle to reject it.

 

 

Bear in mind its a £1400 car and that although it's not been easy, the car is now fixed.

 

 

The fact that you accepted £400 for your trade in and its now on offer for £1750 has no bearing on matters - you accepted the trade in value and the deal was struck.

 

 

Just be a bit careful with the rejection stance, it may well backfire if the car has been fixed.

[jrb1989]

Hi Oddjobbob,

 

The dealer says in the letter that it's now fixed but I drove past about 20 mins ago and it's still at the back of the garage. I'm hoping Small Claims will say that it should never have been sold in the first place - which he admitted on the phone. He even said in a letter that he's only repaired it as a gesture of goodwill because it comes with no warranty. (Even though he is a dealer).

 

I know I won't get anything back but the £400 for my old car, which I'm ok with and I really wish I got taxi receipts now as well!

[oddjobbob]

Good luck with it all.

 

 

The dealer is an idiot, he should just have fixed it with a good heart at the very beginning: had he done this you would have thought what a pleasant chap he was, and quite possibly bought another car from him in a couple of years time!

 

 

Some of them can't see any further than the 'profit' in the car. No all cars have profits in them, I've sold 5000 of them, so ought to know! Sometimes as a dealer you just have to pay up and look big, and he should have done this.

 

 

But you are where you are, and since the problems were not related to safety you might find TS are not all that interested, especially if its now fixed.

 

 

Just be careful, that's all, it might not turn out how you want and you may be better off accepting the car and saving a shedload of grief! But up to you - I wouldn't be keen on keeping it, that's for sure!