Black Horse calculations.

[batman1956]

in April 2004 we took out a secured loan with Black Horse. This was a 10 year term.

 

The figures on the agreement were.

 

Amount of Credit £12,000

Interest rate per month 1.018% APR 12.9%

Monthly Repayments £173.50

 

Total charge for credit £8,820.00

Total amount payable £20,820.00.

 

Along with this there was PPI which was claimed back and settled in January 2010

with Black Horse taking a proportion to pay off arrears.

 

This as far as I can see left 50 payments due and working it out the sum still owed was £8,675.00. (50 x £173.50)

 

Over the intervening period Black Horse has sent various letters and default notices

including some for the PPI part of the account which was by this time paid back,

settled and as far as we are concerned closed.

 

We agree that some payments have been missed but also we have overpaid many times.

 

At the end of the ten year term we have checked all payments and the amount still owing was £1,228.00.

 

This is calculated from January 2010 when the account must have been up to date after the PPI settlement.

 

Today we get a further letter from Black Horse, it states Overdue amount £2,198.50

and the amount required to repay the debt in full is £8,517.62

 

They want payment of the full amount within 7 days

although kindly they will consider waiving the demand if we pay the overdue amount within 7 days.

 

According to our records the amount still outstanding is £828 as

we have paid another 2 payments of £200 after the end of the agreement term.

 

We need help with this as we are absolutely sure that Black Horse are attempting to rip us off.

[havinastella]

Send the SAR to Blackhorse. This company is a nightmare to deal with.

[batman1956]

Already done it they sent 2 boxes full of pages back . This was everything that we had through the whole of the Lloyds banking group. It was impossible to sort through it all.

 

My figures are correct and I have written to them twice giving them a full breakdown of every payment made since January 2010 which was when we can verify that the account was up to date.

 

They say that payments have been missed and that is the reason that the balance is what they say.

While payments have been missed other payments have been more than the due amount.

We are confident that at the end of the ten year term the amount outstanding was £1,028.00.

[havinastella]

It's easy to work out them.

 

Just tot up all payments make against what was owed. It's as simple as that. Anything left are charges that are unlawful.

 

Reclaim all the charges at the compound rate of 12.9%

[batman1956]

That is basically what I wrote to them. They are brilliant at not replying when they don't like what is said to them.

 

I will do a full statement again enclosing a copy of their letter of January 2010 confirming that the account was up to date after the PPI settlement

This will be the third time I have done this.

If they ignore this again is there anything else that I can do?

[batman1956]

Just a question. The letter says that it is a Default Notice but demands payment inside 7 days. Am I correct in thinking it should be 14 days.

[maroondevo52]

Am I correct in thinking it should be 14 days.

 

That's what I thought but seems 7 days is the minimum.

[batman1956]

Things must have changed then. I am sure I have seen somewhere that when a default notice didn't give 14 days that it was a good defence in court.

[batman1956]

I think that I may have found out what they are doing. Would someone please confirm that I am correct or tell me that I am clutching at straws.

 

The figures on the signed agreement are

 

Amount of Credit £12,000

Interest rate per month 1.018% APR 12.9%

Monthly Repayments £173.50

 

Total charge for credit £8,820.00

Total amount payable £20,820.00.

 

 

Looking back at statements they are adding further interest payments monthly. This seems to me like they are adding interest again to the front loaded interest as stated on the agreement.

 

 

Am I going mad?

[ims21]

If you have missed payments, have you taken into account the further interest that would be due on those missed payments?

 

If they have levied penalty charges, have you taken into account the interest they would have charged on those?

Edited May 11, 2014 by ims21

[batman1956]

We would have to have missed nearly every payment since January 2010 for the extra interest to total to anywhere near what they say.

At the end of the contractual term there was £1,028 outstanding which gives an idea of how many payments were missed at £173.50 per month.

That would be an extremely high amount extra.

[ims21]

Ok if you want help with the maths and an analysis of the account then you would need to post up the agreement and statements (minus all personal information). You can put them all into one multi page PDF.

 

If you are happy with your calculations then I would think you need to write to the lender and get a full and detailed breakdown of how they have calculated their figures Then you can compare theirs to yours.

[batman1956]

We have had no statements since 2010 despite many requests and Black Horse saying that they have sent them. The ones that we have are old ones. We do however have a list of all payments made since January 2010 When we sent a SAR we got 2 boxes of paperwork covering all of our Lloyds group accounts which was far too much to go through.

 

Hopefully this is the agreement.

 

And here is a list of our payments from PPI refund in January 2010.

 

Black Horse Payments From 28th January 2010.

 

8/02/2010 PAYMENT £173.50

MARCH 2010 NO PAYMENT MADE

 

21/04/2010 PAYMENT £173.50

26/05/2010 PAYMENT £175.00

24/06/2010 PAYMENT £175 .00

23/07/2010 PAYMENT £175.00

AUGUST 2010 NO PAYMENT MADE

 

12/09/2010 PAYMENT £200.00

28/10/2010 PAYMENT £200.00

NOVEMBER 2010 NO PAYMENT MADE

 

8/12/2010 PAYMENT £200.00

28/01/2011 PAYMENT £200.00

FEBRUARY 2011 NO PAYMENT MADE

 

5/04/2011 PAYMENT £200.00 (MARCH PAYMENT)

28/04/2011 PAYMENT £200.00

27/05/2011 PAYMENT £225.00

JUNE 2011 NO PAYMENT MADE

 

5/07/2011 PAYMENT £225.00

31/08/2011 PAYMENT £225.00

SEPTEMBER 2011 NO PAYMENT MADE

 

4/10/2011 PAYMENT £225.00

8/11/2011 PAYMENT £225.00

12/12/2011 PAYMENT £225.00

11/01/2012 PAYMENT £225.00

21/02/2012 PAYMENT £225.00

28/03/2012 PAYMENT £225.00

APRIL 2012 NO PAYMENT MADE

 

11/05/2012 PAYMENT £225.00

18/06/2012 PAYMENT £225.00

10/07/2012 PAYMENT £250.00

28/08/2012 PAYMENT £250.00

SEPTEMBER 2012 NO PAYMENT MADE

 

01/10/2012 PAYMENT £200

07/11/2012 PAYMENT £200

12/12/2012 PAYMENT £200

JANUARY 2013 NO PAYMENT MADE

 

06/02/2013 PAYMENT £200

04/03/2013 PAYMENT £200

15/04/2013 PAYMENT £200

17/05/2013 PAYMENT £200

04/06/2013 PAYMENT£200

26/07/2013 PAYMENT £200

23/08/2013 PAYMENT £200

06/09/2013 PAYMENT £200

OCTOBER 2013 NO PAYMENT MADE

 

01/11/2013 PAYMENT£200

02/12/2013 PAYMENT £200

03/01/2014 PAYMENT £200

29/01/2014 PAYMENT £200 (FEBRUARY PAYMENT)

07/03/2014 PAYMENT £200

02/04/2014 PAYMENT £200

09/05/2014 PAYMENT £200

 

We have documentary proof from Black Horse that the account was clear from all arrears on 28/01/2010 with monies deducted from our PPI settlement.

 

Hope this is good enough.

 

Sorry to be a pain but any assistance on the above would be most welcome.

[ims21]

I'll try and grab a look at this tonight

[batman1956]

Thanks very much.

[ims21]

Sorry couldn't get to it last night. Am looking now.

[batman1956]

OK thanks. I have just recalculatd the amount paid so far. From what I can see we are only short of the full amount by £27.50. and that is only 2 months behind schedule.

[ims21]

What was the normal due date for the monthly payment please?

 

Also, while I am looking at the figures, could you post up the statement which covers the date in 2010 when the PPI refund was made.

 

Use this method by dx100uk....

 

set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

.

************************* ************************* *******

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

************************* ************************* ***********

.

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

http://www.convert-jpg-to-pdf.net/

..

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or http://www.freepdfconvert.com/

or

use http://www.pdfmerge.com

 

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though DONT USE BANK NAMES or CAGicon in the title

i'e Default notice DDicon-mm-yyyy

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

...

YOU DONT have to put a link to the attachment in the msg box..just upload it ..job done

.

dx

[batman1956]

As far as I know I have not had any statements since then.

What I have is a letter confirming that arrears were cleared in full from the PPI refund.

I will check again later.

[ims21]

As far as I know I have not had any statements since then.

What I have is a letter confirming that arrears were cleared in full from the PPI refund.

I will check again later.

 

 

Ok thanks.

 

And post #21 please?

[batman1956]

Again I will check but the agreement was signed on 7th. Thank you for your help with this

[ims21]

Ok that's good. Usually the payments start one month after the signing of the agreement so I will work on that basis for the time being.

[batman1956]

I can confirm that the due date is 3rd of the month.

 

Rather than scan the statement from the time of the PPI refund here are the figures.

 

 

01/06/2010 insurance cancellation 1201.98 credit

22/01/2010 transfer of cash 2295.89 credit

22/01/2010 interest adjustment 2387.81 credit

27/01/2010 interest 50.78

28/01/2010 cheque refund 1780.67

28/01/2010 Transfer of cash 607.94 credit

28/01/2010 transfer of cash 200.00 credit

31/01/2010 interest 44.27

08/02/2010 ho cash/ cheque repayment 173.50 credit

28/02/2010 interest 95.37

31/03/2010 interest 106.13

30/04/2010 interest 103.77

Balance as at 30th April 2010 £11,643.99

 

There are no further statements

We dispute the balance at this statement as the letter we received dated 28/01/2010 states that arrears were cleared from the PPI refund.

 

Morning ims. Does the above information help with the calculations? And does it give any clues as to why Black Horse are saying that the balance is so much?

[ims21]

Hi yes it does help a bit. It is all a bit confusing though.

 

I am trying to fit these calculations in between work stuff so please bear with me. I haven't forgotten

[batman1956]

No problem I am grateful for your help

 

I have gone back through many letters which have been sent to Black Horse (all completely ignored)

which have been sent to try to get to the bottom of the problem.

 

Looking back things were wrong in April 2010 less than 3 months after the PPI refund

and we think that because of this have escalated since.

 

At this point if my memory serves me correctly Black Horse were stating arrears of around £1,300.

 

Here is a copy of the letter sent to them on 6th April 2010.

 

Dear Sirs,

Following receipt of 4 letters from yourselves dated 30th March 2010

all starting with the words

“This is a default notice served under S87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974”

 

I find myself at a loss to explain your actions.

The above account was the subject of a claim for mis-sold payment protection insurance

which was settled by Black Horse in our favour in January of this year.

 

From the settlement figure of £3,232.33 an amount was deducted for arrears (including fees)

leaving a total of £1780.67 which was paid to us leaving the account up to date.

 

This is confirmed by your letter to us dated 28th January 2010 which was signed by Sarah Andrews from your High Level Complaint Handling Unit.

 

Further payments since this settlement have been made on 20/02/10 for £173.50

and 30/03/10 for £175 meaning that the account is up to date.

 

Today I have spent a great deal of time on the telephone trying to get to the bottom of this matter

and it would seem that you are under the mistaken opinion that there are charges on this account.

 

This is impossible as the account was stated by you to be clear of fees as detailed above.

 

I should also like to point out that due to the mis selling of PPI in effect

after the first four payments the account was in real terms being paid in advance

and that each of the PPI payments made was in fact making the account more and more in credit

and NEVER in arrears.

 

Two of the “default notices” are for the insurance account which was cancelled on Ist June 2009

and so how this now nonexistent account can be in arrears is mystifying to say the least.

 

The Financial Ombudsman Service has been informed of your breach and is investigating.

 

The reporting of defaults on this account has damaged our credit score

and as such my business has potentially been damaged.

 

The responsibility for this lies solely with Black Horse and

the reporting of any arrears or default MUST be accurate

 

according to the Data Commissioners Office rules defaults should be for arrears

and should not include fees or charges unless these fees or charges are proved to be fair and not punitive.

 

We require that you confirm in writing before 25th April 2010 that the account is not in arrears and

 

it is our intention to seek substantial compensation for the distress which you have caused us,

and also for loss of earnings today in an effort to sort out your inefficiency

 

Yours Sincerely

 

The FOS did not continue with this as they considered the complaint closed after the PPI settlement.