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    • I've had a brief look over the thread and I see that there principle point is that he didn't take out insurance. Your answer to this is very simple – that it is absurd that you are required to pay to protect them against their own negligence or criminality of their employees or the people who are acting for them – in this case, Hermes.Your point here is that any requirement that a customer is required to pay extra to protect against the breach of contract is unfair within the meaning of the unfair terms provisions of the Consumer Rights Act. Please have a read of the unfair terms provisions of the Consumer Rights Act. In In particular, after you have read the sections within the act itself, get a schedule two and you will see examples of unfair terms. These are nonexhaustive which means that they are simply examples and lots of others can be added. An important point is that it forms a significant imbalance between your interests and their interests. They are using a standard form contract which is nonnegotiable. There is no competition because all the courier industry are doing this so there is no opportunity for you to go elsewhere and get a different type of deal. You will need to point out to the defendant – through the mediator – that included in the unfair terms provisions of the Consumer Rights Act is a provision that gives the court the power – in fact a duty – on its own initiative to examine the fairness or otherwise of any term. Point out to the defendant that if they want to go to court then you are happy about it. That you will then raise the question of unfairness to the judge and also you will invite the judge to look at the entirety of the contract and to pronounce on the fairness or otherwise of the contractual terms. Tell the defendant that you expect that the judge will decide unequivocally that a term of the contract which requires the customer to pay extra to protect themselves against the service providers breach of contract is grossly unfair – and in fact it is ridiculous. Basically they are saying "pay us to deliver your goods – and pay us extra if you don't want us to lose them."   Explain to the defendant that you are fully aware that this is a culture within the courier industry which has developed over 30 or 40 years or more but it's not acceptable and that when you get a judgement in your favour which confirms that the term is unfair, (as will surely happen) that you will then make sure that copies of the judgement find their way all over the Internet including social media that is concerned specifically with complaints against the courier industry and then the game will be up for the loss of them. One the mediator to tell the defendant that once you get this judgement, not only will people be claiming for ongoing lost items, but they will also be claiming retrospectively for legitimate claims which have been rejected on the basis of this unfair term. Make it clear to the mediator – that they should tell the defendant that you're not dealing with very much money here – and you are prepared to risk it all in order to go to court and to demonstrate this principle. If the mediator says that you should compromise then you should tell the mediator that if the defendant pays up in full – including costs and interest – that they will then be spared the problem of going to court and getting a judgement against them which will result in the loss of millions of pounds in the future. Tell the mediator that this is the benefit to the defendant and you are not prepared to hand them any further benefit if it means sacrificing a single penny of your claim. Tell the defendant to take it or leave it – you are happy either way.   It is very important that the defendant understands that you don't care either way whether you settle now mediation or goes to court. The defendant as a huge amount to lose if it goes to court. You have very little to lose  
    • Firstly I am disabled and have brain fog so can forget anything.  Today I went online to check when the MOT is due as just had to renew my car insurance and know it comes quickly after that. I was shocked to see my car was flagged as NOT TAXED.  I have had disability tax for years so dont even have to pay. After ringing DVLA I eventually found out papers had been sent to my old house which I left 3 years ago. With the stress of moving etc I never changed the car address but did change the address on my licence as that is correct.   Now I am worried I may have picked up a speeding ticket sometime in the 3 years and also maybe recently on a day trip to London (2 miles too fast coming out a tunnel). The old house is 150 miles away so cant pop in and no idea who lives there now. Thats how I got caught out with tax as they sent the paperwork there to renew. The lady renewed the tax easily on the computer for me which I was so grateful for and backdated it to 1 Feb. Can anyone tell me how I can find out if there are any tickets out there in my name that I know anything about please? I have had a really awful week with so many problems and this is now really making me feel sick so dont want to worry for months to catch up with me.   Thanks  
    • Presumably you have received your own NIP/s172 request after the lease company identified you as the person the car is leased to?   First thing to say is that, regardless of any questions over the date of the first NIP, you must still reply to your own NIP/s172 within the time limit given otherwise you are committing an entirely separate and more serious offence than any speeding infringement.  If you were the driver you should nominate yourself.   You need to be careful arguing that the first NIP was not sent out in time.  Note that it is only the first NIP that is subject to the 14 day limit, and that NIP needs to go to the Registered Keeper.  There is no time limit on subsequent NIPs.   So are you 100% certain that your lease company is the registered keeper and do you know that for a fact?  Please note that the registered keeper of lease vehicles is often not the lease company, but a finance company.   If the police are saying that the first NIP was sent to the RK within the time limit, you can be 99.99999% certain that they will have evidence proving that fact.  Assuming it was sent out first-class, there is a legal presumption that it was delivered two working days after posting, unless the addressee can prove it was never received.  So if the police are saying the first NIP was sent out within 12 days, the RK would have to prove it was never received within 14 days to provide a defence.  As you might imagine, that is very difficult to prove otherwise everybody would claim it.  Unfortunately, "reminder" NIPs are usually not marked as such and may be indistinguishable from the original.   So you need to confirm (preferably by sight of a copy of the actual V5C document as staff of lease companies do not always know) who the Registered Keeper is, and when they recived the first NIP.  If it was received after 14 days can they prove that fact (eg by a date received stamp and an appropriate system for dealing with mail received) and can they prove that they didn't receive an earlier NIP?   Hope that makes sense!  If it doesn't another poster called Man in the Middle will clarify what I 've not explained well or got wrong.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
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      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
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    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
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SabreSheep Vs Natwest + Moorcroft / ** Satisfactory Conclusion **


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Natwest Credit Card.

This is a bit long. Sorry :)

 

But im hoping it will allow more accurate constructive comments and help others in a similar boat.

 

Information posted in Red Font is related to my SAR request.

 

Account History compiled from documentation on hand.

 

Account opened sometime in 2002

 

Earliest Statement found so far Oct 2002.

Out of statements going back more than 6 years

I have them all (or at least the transaction lists

 

Temporary Repayment Plan agreed 06/08/2010 due to financial difficulties.

This plan allowed me to get back within agreed credit limit.

Plan lasted 6 months and was adhered to.

 

FEB 2013 Explained situation (Off work Long term sick with stress and depression)

 

Default Notice Issued March 2013 after missing quite a few payments. Balance at Default 3262.88

 

Account Terminated 02 April 2013 (Balance 3262.88)

 

Account Passed to Triton 24 July 2013

 

Interest charged August 2013

 

Payment demand from Triton (Previous Balance + Interest Charged August 2013)

 

Financial Statement sent offering token payment due to surviving on a deficit. (Family were supporting me)

 

18 Sep 13 Triton send letter saying Figures do not make sense.

 

18 Oct 13 Triton say I Must phone them.

Reply letter sent with another copy of the statement and reminded them of my depression and anxiety.

Also stated that some of my other creditors had accepted the statement.

 

09 Dec 2013 Triton send me a copy of a letter they allegedly sent 09/Nov which I never received stating

they wanted more information on how I could survive with a deficit of X per month

 

21 Jan 2014 - Threatagram from Green+Co Solicitors claiming I have not been in contact with Natwest/Triton.

Reply sent with copies of correspondence and repeat offer of token payment and copy of financial statement.

 

13/03/14 Moocroft letter saying details passed to them from Natwest to act as collection agent.

Replied with a request that they send me proof they have been asked by Natwest to act on their behalf.

Reminded them that I sent them copies of my financial statement and also I could not accept phone calls

or visits due to my depression and anxiety.

 

19/03/14 Moorcroft template letter - acknowledging query and suspension

 

24/03/14 Moorcroft letter - Account placed on hold till 20/4/14.

Told that Natwest had advised me that the account had been transferred. (untrue)

Replied with CCA request and requested authority/deed of assignment. £1 fee sent as cheque made out on my behalf.

Gave them 30 days instead of 12+2 (im still learning at this point. Now I know better)

 

27/03/14 SAR Request sent to NATWEST for list of defaults charges and late payment etc. Fee sent.

 

25/04/14 NatWest - Letter saying personal information out of date. On their template they say they need a copy of my signature.

 

I Reply sent 28/04/14 Template, stating they do not require my signature and that they have sent personal information to my address etc etc.

Sent copy of council tax bill and a previous letter they sent to me at this address.

Also pointed out they had processed my data by forwarding it on to third parties etc.

Told them I had now made a complaint to the information commissioner

and expected them to fully comply with their obligations as data controller.

 

Complaint Lodged with Information Commissioner via email with all relevant docs attached 28/04/2014.

 

02/04/14 Moorcroft Letter - Acknowledged CCA request - Returned cheque directed me to original lender.

Reply sent 25/04 - Template CCA fail. Reminded them of their duties to refer CCA to creditor. Fee sent again.

 

28/04/14 Moorcroft Letter - We have not heard form you etc. I Checked delivery information from royal mail and concluded that this was a cross post. Ignored

 

30/04/14 Moorcroft Letter - Same as 02/04/14 and fee returned. Replying tomorrow 06/04/14 with Account in Dispute template letter and Section 10 Notice.

 

06/04/14 complaint lodged with FOS for non compliance of CCA request.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------

 

Closing Balance - £3333.18

 

From statements and default notices I already have without the SAR

 

Charges Levied £796.00

With Restitution interest applied @ 24.90% Claim = 3220.17

 

ADD interest payment applied after default notice and after they were told of financial problems of 70.30

 

Total work in progress = £3301.83

------------------------------------------------------------

 

On this one I am tempted to go the court route without going to the FOS in regards to credit card charges.

Aim would be to get the amount wiped plus costs incurred in doing so along with default markers removed etc (Am currently unemployed)

 

I might have jumped the gun a bit with the complaints to IC and FOS regarding the SAR fail and fail to comply with CCA but we shall see.

 

Other thing I noticed is that Natwest repeatedly altered my T+Cs such as the cash advance percentage

and also the main purchase percentage interest rates.

 

There was no forewarning on any of the statements I have preceding the rate jacking.

 

In fact I never noticed until going through my statements.

 

Despite having 80-90% of all paperwork im not seeing any seperate letters advising of a change in T+C's

 

Im sure they have to give notice under the terms of Consumer Credit Act and draw your attention to your right to discontinue

the agreement and pay off the balance at the preceding interest rate.

 

If they failed to do this,

do I have further options there?

 

As in force them to return the interest charged above any original interest rate

until they complied with notice of variation of terms and conditions.

 

Hmm maybe I should redo the SAR and make it more general and include a CCA request.

 

Thoughts?

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The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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Today (7/5/14) Received a delivery from a Courier. Cover letter from Natwest with an apology for the previous More information request that was sent in error"

 

Also contained ALL my statements from 2001! AND a copy of an application form for the credit card. My SAR to Natwest was a targeted one in regards to transactions lists and charges so as far as I see they have finally complied.

 

What I did notice was the application form has "Moisten Along this gummed edge to seal (please do not use adhesive tape or staples) on the top and left hand side. This is helpful as it shows it was a MAIL SHOT :)

 

Now I could go on and do a CCA request and a further SAR for everything else. (I should of done this to start with but hindsight is wonderful) but Moorcroft were "allegedly" acting on their behalf and have breached my CCA request.

 

Do i leave the CCA trail as is or do I start the CCA and a full SAR with NatWest?

 

In meantime I have my Preclim Letter to write :)

Edited by SabreSheep

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The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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Account History compiled from documentation on hand.

 

Account opened sometime in 2002

 

 

EDIT: Account Opened 2001

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The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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Hi Sabre,

 

Looking in as asked ............

 

A word of caution - my experience of credit card penalty reclaims has been almost exclusively with BC a/c's. I've helped folk in the BC forum reclaim tens of £000's where they use a nominal compound int't rate of 24.9%, arguing Sempra Metals v Inland Revenue Commissioners re restitutionary int't and Kleinwort Benson v Lincoln City Council re Limitation Act 1980.

 

Barclays Litigation generally pay up when faced with a court date but other banks do not necessarily do the same.

 

So you need to research and see how other CAGgers have faired in seeking restitutionary compound interest before taking this course of action.

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

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Hi Slick

Thanks for popping in :)

 

Will do a bit more research. Will pop a CCA request in the post I think.

May help to break up the time a little bit between this one and the BC claim

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The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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A CCA request I suspect will produce a further copy of the "dual purposes" application for/ credit agreement. I have an account from around 2000/2001 period and this was standard procedure then, when the card was issued a full terms and conditions " booklet" was provided together with an "executed" copy of the app/agreement postal document.

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Postal/promotional application.

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Regardless, the PTs have to be present at time of signing. If the 1st time you see them is with card, then this is not correct under CCA 1974.

If you had researched your response you would gave found that many of these "postal/ promotional applications took this form in the late 90s early 2000s the card was supplied the full Ts & Cs were supplied with it one could then decide to accept or decline the offer of the credit facility.

 

 

I have such an account and all the documents to go with it.

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I've noticed when any one questions your comments you become quite aggressive. This helps nobody. If a consumer hasn't signed a document containing the prescribed terms, then it isn't executed properly. I suggest you carry out a little research yourself. Of course, if the PTs came with the card within a certain time period, and the consumer subsequently signed, that would be a different matter.

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If you wish to talk in circles go ahead, but I am pleased to see that you do indeed agree with me that Ts & Cs would be sent with the card when back 15 or so years ago and the applicant could accept or decline the offer of the credit facility!!

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So your saying that for a pre 2007 agreement the PTs do not need to be present at the time of of signing as the banks usual procedures took presidence over statutes. I must have misunderstood all my law lectures.

 

If the application did not contain the PTs and the PTs only came with the card, the agreement was not fully executed. To be 1974 CCA compliant, the consumer would have to sign another agreement, this time with the PTs present, for the agreement to be compliant. This is where many banks got it wrong. Many moons ago, I filled a very simple application form in, no PTs at all. The card came with instructions of use etc and only generic TCs and nothing to sign and return.

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This was very much the problem with many of the postal application often "4 corners " requirement was not met.

End of Story this is not a discussion thread.

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All my posts were as a result of your post no #6 therefore completely relevant.

 

In any case, constructive discussions can help posters make their own informed decisions. However if this is not what CAG is for, iv misunderstood its purpose. Thanks anyway for admitting I was right.

 

SabreSheep, good look with this.

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All my posts were as a result of your post no #6 therefore completely relevant.

 

In any case, constructive discussions can help posters make their own informed decisions. However if this is not what CAG is for, iv misunderstood its purpose. Thanks anyway for admitting I was right.

 

SabreSheep, good look with this.

 

 

Yes you were certainly right to agree my conclusions thanks.

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Brigadier + goodatreserch thank you both for your input. Please put down the foam hammers now and revert to water pistols, Summer is coming :D

 

Ok it is slightly immaterial now as I have submitted my Preclim Letter for the bank charges with *Interest of Restitution claimed as well"

 

A few days ago I did send a Proper CCA request directly to natwest seeing as the application form copy came with my SAR. Im just interested on what will come up :) Moorcroft should already have requested this but the timescales have expired and Moorcroft has been sent the out of time in dispute and section 10 notice. They have not even managed a deed of simple assignment. SO they have no authority to collect on behalf of Natwest on this account it seems.

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The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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Hi SS and let us know how they reply.

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

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Natwest will stil own the ac moorcroft are just their dca so no need for an noa

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There should never the less be notification that Moorcrap have been assigned to manage/collect the allege debt.

 

 

Moorcrap are part of NW>

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Correct no notice of assignment. They still own the debt.

 

Will let you know what the reply is to both CCA request and Prelim.

POC etc already being drafted for my Barclaycard one so ill be able to adapt everything across.

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The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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Correct Brigadier, no notice naming Moorcroft ever received.

Moorcroft would never give me any copies of notice and kept saying to contact Natwest. They refused CCA three times as well so have earned an account in dispute letter and section 10 DPA notice.

 

Seeing as I have never been told by Natwest that Moorcroft have been contracted to act on their behalf Ive treated them as chancers.

 

As for my smaller HSBC credit card, HSBC advised me they had contracted Moorcroft to act as agents. As HSBC had accepted £1 a month for my OD Moorcroft were left with no option but to accept £1 a month :)

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The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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In that NatWest /Moorcroft situation you can simply state you have no knowledge of any " authority" from NatWest for it to be contacting you and that you will not enter into any discussion with them.

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Thanks Brig.

Originally that was my first responce. They said I needed to contact natwest. then I just CCAd them and failed to comply CCA letter and section 10 DPA notice. I dont intend to issue any more corespondance except for one last one.

 

Along the lines of

 

The account is now in dispute with Natwest that could potentially result in the balance being reduced to zero. Please discontinue corespondance as this account already in dispute due to your failure to carry out your obligations is now in further Serious dispute. But untill that point comes they Moorcorft can eat my silence ;)

 

*update*

 

12/05/14 Letter received from ICO dated 09/05/14, acknowledging my complaint and issuing case number. Told to contact them if they do not provide suitable response to my sar request. (As before Natwest have now complied and apologized. Will email the ICO and inform them that in that instance the complaint about failed SAR is closed)

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The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

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