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    • is response to CPR rules you sent me - my observations are   1)they havent stated under what law/legislation they make a claim, they have mentioned document they rely on but didnt serve it with application as above   2)they didnt serve application or evidence on me ever! court knows this    3)this is a telephone hearing where no oral evidence is to be given , do we do skeleton arguments or court bundle , when do we give to court - order is to only submit evidence in response 7 days before hearing   4) there are /is a document which gives complete defence to the claim, disclosable at trial , so they shouldnt have sought summary judgement a)i have an email from them ,  a deed of guarantee and indemnity (DOGI) was required for guarantee, pre condition to lending b)i have a docusign email sending request to sign this  DOGI document (not attached it was a docusign login) , c)they dont have a copy of it and havent provided under SAR or specific request.  d) anyone who does a DOGI, is not defined as a 'Guarantor' in the agreement, which is not signed in a personal capacity anyway, e)so in the application they rely on loan agreement having a self contained gurantor section, and the fact my name is next to word guarantor (but not signed personally, no statute of frauds anyways)   their definition of a guarantor-"person named in offer letter who enters into this loan agreement to provide a personal guarantee and indemnity. this definition excludes any third party guarantor who enters into a seperate DOGI"
    • Hi Anney.   Let's give this a bit longer. With the best will in the world, altosbestos hasn't been here very long and we don't know much about them. It would be good to know what forum regulars think about what altos is advising.   HB  
    • thanks for that very helpful, ill make some points on it in a minute just wanted to say they never served me application against CPR, i had to obtain off court a copy. They refer in wtiness st - marked as what they rely to support application a paginated bundle PR1 which apparently accompanies the statement, i can see from the references and amount of pages it should be the loan offer and loan agreement, as you would expect.   so i asked court can i have copy of PR1 so i can check, they just got back and said  claimant has never either in electronic database or in paper, served a bundle PR1 with the application,    there said it was claimants job to serve everyone and me- so ask them      i was about to and i had a thought, they havent submitted any evidence in support of their application why remind them !   in theory judge will get to hearing and go where is your evidence of this agreement?   and for the record they are very sloppy and do make major mistakes in their paperwork, so this isnt unusual
    • You can draft the letter before action yourself and send it against the individual that's not giving you clear responses. No need to involve solicitors at this stage.   I would recommend you do it today, start maintaining a paper trail. 
    • Obviously the real proof will come when the contract is revealed.   In the meantime you could write to the DVLA asking who applied for your data back in 2017. And show them the signage where both companies are listed and ask in view of who asked for your details, did the right one apply and what is their view on both companies showing on the sign.   Is this legal and explain that you are in the middle of a Court case and they may be called.
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    • I sent in the bailiffs to the BBC. They collected £350. It made me smile.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
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Hi,

 

I'm rather embarassed to have to enquire about my rights in this instance, but such was the stupidity of my actions the other night that I have no choice.

 

I have been reading some of the threads about people's experience with RLP and I am somewhat releived to find that the advice given is suggesting that they don't really have a leg to stand on, which is kind of what my gut feeling was telling me anyway.

 

However I did the crime and now I must face the consquences of my actions. I had not reckoned that that would involve anything like this though, and I am really quite stressed out about it, not least because I have not yet received the dreaded first letter.

 

Short version of what transpired. I'm a part time alcoholic/binge drinker and when I start drinking I can rarely stop until the air touched the bottom of the last bottle. The other night in my drunken stupor I decided to vivist my local 24 hour Asda, and since I was unable to procure any more alcohol by paying for it according to to the law, I decided to chance my arm at stealing a 4 pack, and I got caught. They took me into the search room and coerced me into giving them my name, address and D.O.B otherwise they would call the police. The next thing I am being read some peice of paper and then given to me and I left. I got angry with them at that point and said a few things and left. They also refused to give me some water when I asked for it several times, my mouth was so dry that I could barely talk.

Anyway, I'm currently awaiting the bad news, to find out how much RLP are going to try and scare me into paying them.

 

I also broke several of the points on the Guidance for those Accused of shoplifting thread, especially point 12, because I'm not a career shoplifter, just a one time chancer who got caught. I went back in to appeal to them yeasterday and apologise for my actions and asked to be allowed to shop there again. The woman I spoke to was very understanding and suggested that I write to the manager to apologise, which I have now done. I felt so bad the next day and often confessing and apologising can make things better, but perhaps not in this instance.

 

I no way though have I at any time admitted to trying to steal from them at any time though, and I worded the letter vaguely enough to possibly mean just the general way in which I behaved. Apparently they have me on cctv putting the item in my bag, which is quite possible.

 

So I just wanted to ask, pre-receipt of letter if I have just shot myself in the foot by doing that. If it goes to court will that likely go against me, and count as an admittal?

 

Should I write to them after the first letter denying any claim made by them, or should I ignore the first few? The woman said it would likely be £50 but I'm hearing some horror stories about people being asked for hundreds. This is my mind, whether shoplifting is right or wrong, is completely unethical and I can't beleive that this company are being allowed to act in this way. If it's only £50 I might just bite the bullet and pay for it, in installment, any more than that and they can sing for it!

 

Any advice any has would be apprecaited, thanks. I know I did wrong and I'm ashamed of myself, but I seriously can't afford to pay any money to the RLP. If I get fined by the police, then I have to pay but they are not the police! They got their beer back, nothing was stolen. I therefore owe them or the RLP company nothing!

 

p.s. I'm 36 (and should know better)

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Hi to all the staff at RLP who have read this so far. Looking forward to ignoring all your letters. I'll probably open the first and just file the rest of them away in a drawer. p.s. I charge £10 per cubic millimetre of space used up by any junk mail I have to retain.

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Asda don't use RLP, but Drydensfairfax, who are solicitors.

 

The basics are the same, and whilst court action remains unlikely Drydensfairfax are able to initiate claims themselves, and have done so on occasion.

 

As you say, Asda have lost nothing and so you owe nothing.

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Hi beerpunk

 

Welcome to CAG

 

When you get the first letter, update your thread with the details. Don't communicate with them unless advised to do so.

 

As you said you weren't fully aware of your actions. What you do need to do is seek help for alcoholic/binge drinking. That is more important. You need to seek help from your doctor or AA, who can point you in the right direction.

 

http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org.uk/

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So it's more difficult for the ones using RLP to initiate small claims?

 

I'm just worried that I may have made things worst by trying to do the decent thing and make amends by writing to the manager to apologise and ask if I can still shop there. Like I say I didn't specificy what actions I was apologising for, I could have meant the way I spoke to security.

 

I think they have me on cctv though anyway, so as far as incriminating evidence is concerned it probably doesn't make a lot of difference. Or does it?

 

What about refusing to give me water and illegally detaining me? Is that worth mentioning/complaining about?

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Hi beerpunk

 

Welcome to CAG

 

When you get the first letter, update your thread with the details. Don't communicate with them unless advised to do so.

 

As you said you weren't fully aware of your actions. What you do need to do is seek help for alcoholic/binge. That is more important. You need to seek help from your doctor or AA, who can point you in the right direction.

 

I've already been seeking help from my doctor for alcoholism and depression. Suppose it might not do any harm to go to an AA meeting now though.

 

I'll wait until the letter arrives and post details here before I do anything, cheers.

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So it's more difficult for the ones using RLP to initiate small claims?

 

I'm just worried that I may have made things worst by trying to do the decent thing and make amends by writing to the manager to apologise and ask if I can still shop there. Like I say I didn't specificy what actions I was apologising for, I could have meant the way I spoke to security.

 

I think they have me on cctv though anyway, so as far as incriminating evidence is concerned it probably doesn't make a lot of difference. Or does it?

 

What about refusing to give me water and illegally detaining me? Is that worth mentioning/complaining about?

 

To be honest, you need to stop worrying and communicating with them. They cant do anything without the say so of Asda. And honestly, asda has likely already forgotten you exist. RLP seem to pretend that they have the authority of the company to chase you, when in reality the company probably has no knowledge of what RLp are doing.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

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To be honest, you need to stop worrying and communicating with them. They cant do anything without the say so of Asda. And honestly, asda has likely already forgotten you exist. RLP seem to pretend that they have the authority of the company to chase you, when in reality the company probably has no knowledge of what RLp are doing.

 

Doing my best there, the stopping worrying. You guys have been a great help there, reading some of the threads. Just worried that the manager will pass the letter onto RLP and the whole thing was a trick. I expect as matters transpire the whole thing will just become a series of formalities and will eventually end up forgotten at the bottom of a pile of thousands of other claims that have been ignored by people who have a bit of legal knowledge and are not prepared to be intimiated by a bunch of tin pot policemen and their so called lawyers/gangsters.

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You dont have to worry. They do the same thing to everyone. jackie relies on threats and lies to get what she wants. All you have to do is send the one line letter then ignore anything she sends/

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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For those who are still talking about RLP in this matter please read post #3.

 

ASDA don't use Jackie's outfit.

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Hi

Drydens may be solicitors but they also have common sense.

 

Since 2012 there has been (as far as I am aware) NO cases taken to court. This is due to a Slapping RLP got and now any other 'collector' is wary. This doesn't mean they may not try it on but if (big if) they do, they will have to justify any demand they make and when they start spouting business costs, game over. They cannot claim for them and other stuff.

 

You seem fairly chilled with this so as advised, do not reply unless it is needed.

 

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Well,

I've been reading a lot of cases on the internet and

 

I haven't read one yet where they were succesfully able to extort money out of someone

without using scare tactics. I wont fall for it.

 

Thanks for all the advice guys, you are awesome.

 

I mean, apart from the ones who genuinely made a mistake or the cashier etc we don't deserve it.

It's our own fault, but certainly this is not the way to deal with petty crime.

 

I'm quite shocked at some of the accounts of this that I've read really

and I don't imagine it will be too long before this company are dealt with by the long arm of the law themselves.

 

It's certainly an effective detterent anyway, and it could be worse- it could be Saudi Arabia! Handy choppy time.

 

I've had a lot of stress over the past year which has resulted in my gaining 2 stone in weight,

and becoming depressed.

 

Just over a year ago I was in good shape and on top of the alcoholism,

but constant stress in the form of not being able to sleep 2 hours any time of the day or night

without being wakened by noise over time has driven me into a bad place,

 

but things are looking up and I'm trying to think more positive etc,

and the last thing I need right now is one dumb mistake hanging over me for months,

so I am going to put it out of my head and forget about and deal with the letter when it arrives

by writing back and telling them in no uncertain terms that I deny an liability to them.

 

As far as I am concerned I have been subsidising supermarket security all my life, like everyone else.

 

They are in no position legally to start dishing out fines.

 

That's the job of the police and the courts, and they chose not to involve them.

 

Petty theft is something that they have to accept and deal with if they want to run

supermarket monopolies that basically at the end of the put small local shops out of business

and exploit workers all across the world, including third world slave labour, often child labour.

 

I'm not saying what I did was right, but at the end of the day, morally and ethically they are the greater evil.

 

Will be back in touch when the dreaded letter arrives.

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Hi,

 

I'm rather embarassed to have to enquire about my rights in this instance, but such was the stupidity of my actions the other night that I have no choice.

 

I have been reading some of the threads about people's experience with RLP and I am somewhat releived to find that the advice given is suggesting that they don't really have a leg to stand on, which is kind of what my gut feeling was telling me anyway.

 

However I did the crime and now I must face the consquences of my actions. I had not reckoned that that would involve anything like this though, and I am really quite stressed out about it, not least because I have not yet received the dreaded first letter.

 

Short version of what transpired. I'm a part time alcoholic/binge drinker and when I start drinking I can rarely stop until the air touched the bottom of the last bottle. The other night in my drunken stupor I decided to vivist my local 24 hour Asda, and since I was unable to procure any more alcohol by paying for it according to to the law, I decided to chance my arm at stealing a 4 pack, and I got caught.

 

 

Where was the Asda store located, Scotland or England

 

 

I work in a Scottish Asda store, and the licencing laws wouldn't allow us to serve you, even if you had money because you would have been intoxicated, so if we smell alcohol on the person, or there staggering about, we will refuse the sale, as we would be breaking the law if we served the customer who was intoxicated

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Where was the Asda store located, Scotland or England

 

 

I work in a Scottish Asda store, and the licencing laws wouldn't allow us to serve you, even if you had money because you would have been intoxicated, so if we smell alcohol on the person, or there staggering about, we will refuse the sale, as we would be breaking the law if we served the customer who was intoxicated

 

Scotland. I used the self checkouts as well. not sure what they can really do to stop me buying stuff from there, although the girl at the checkout did help me with some things. If they were watching me on cctv though they must have had an incline that I was inebriated because of the way I was acting. It seemed like they were waiting to apprehend me as soon as I left the store.

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  • 2 weeks later...

So the dreaded letter arrived today and they want to fleece me for the grand sum of £110! A proportionate levvy for illegally detaining me and refusing to give me water when I asked several times they say.

 

'Provided our client does not seek to recover in excess of its losses, such losses are recoverable by law'

 

Oh are they now. And who is this money going to RLP or the supermarket? I wrote to the manager and apologised for my actions and was given permision to go back in, and when I spoke to her on the phone she said the matter was out of their hands now.

 

So, in my first and final letter to them should I simply state that I deny all liability etc or elaborate on my version of the events, ie. that I believe I was illegally detained and whether or not that is the case, they held me in a room and refused to let me have any water?

 

Seriously, I have bigger sharks to swim from right now than them.

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You send one letter to them that simply states " All liability to you or your client is denied. No further correspondance will be entered into".

 

Dont go into any detail about anything. Its a waste of time and they couldnt care less. They just want money from you, and when they find out they cant get it, theyll send a few desperate begging letters, then run off after someone else.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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Right. Look forward to putting them on the pile of begging letters I keep getting from the TV licensing company et al. I like the abruptness of that. No sweat. Will come back and let you all know about it all blowing over and me not worrying about it anymore because I've not heard from them in 2 months later in the year.

 

Hey. I just noticed they spelled my name wrong. I guess I can probably just ignore it completely then seeing as it's not technically addressed to me, right? Nope, no-one with that name lives at this address, sorry. Must have been some other guy.

 

I got a FAQ from them as well, two pages of legal jangle explaining why they have the right to ask me for money that I don't owe them. Is that normal? Anyone want to see it? I'm not going to read it, wont understand it anyway.

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I got a FAQ from them as well, two pages of legal jangle explaining why they have the right to ask me for money that I don't owe them. Is that normal? Anyone want to see it? I'm not going to read it, wont understand it anyway.

 

Completely normal - they rely on the general public being completely ignorant of the law and believe that in sending a few lines of legalese nonsense to you it will convince you that you must pay up or face dire consequences. They don't care who they send this to or the impact that it could have on them - they just want your money!

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They will prob threaten your grannys life soon and unleash the full power of the Magna Carta

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Completely normal - they rely on the general public being completely ignorant of the law and believe that in sending a few lines of legalese nonsense to you it will convince you that you must pay up or face dire consequences. They don't care who they send this to or the impact that it could have on them - they just want your money!

 

Seems fairly straightforward to me. I don't owe them diddley squat. End of matter.

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I want to either ignore this letter because they speeled my name wrong, or write to them denying liability and asking them to explain what legal grounds

they had to hold be against my will and deny me water when I asked them several times. My own fault I was thirsty, but nonetheless I needed water and they denied it to me.

 

I'm not in the slightest bit phased by their threats, I know where I stand. Maybe they can still call the police and report me, they have indicated to me in the letter than they already have. I'd like to invite them to report me to the police in view of the fact that they have no legal grounds to threaten me in this way. Advice please. There's no rush. This is going to drag out for a few months whatever I do.

 

In my experience at dealing with these types of criminal organisation I've found that being blunt and no holds barred is often a good way to draw a quick a final conclusion to the matter. If a shark comes across a fish that can swim faster than it can it'll just go after the slower ones. I don't deny what I did was wrong but I'd like to put these bullies in their place for the sake of other people who might come up against them, and the children that they are evidently terrorising through the post.

Edited by beerpunk
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Its tempting for sure. But if you write to them, just send the one line letter. Nothing else. If you start playing 20 questions, jackie will have a field day by harassing you and trying to get money from you. And she rarely gives up unless you ignore her.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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I'll just ignoe her then. She spelled my name wrong. I shouldn't have opened it really. I guess I broke the law technically by opening it. I hear you anyway.

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Sorry, why was the text in my previous post edited so as to include lots of line, whereas before it was in the paragraph form that I wanted it to be?

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