Martial Arts Club - can I change my mind & get refund? ***Resolved***

[Dogactor87]

Note by forum administrator:-

This problem was very quickly resolved by the owner/admin of the martial arts academy in Chester - to their great credit. Read through this thread for a general understanding of gym clubs - but do understand that some gym clubs can act very decently and responsbily and clearly this is an example of one of them.

 

2nd May 2014

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Hi, I went to an induction at Family Martial Arts and at the end I had expected a 30 day free trial like it says on the website but instead told I have to sign up to a 6 month contract and if I didn't sign up today then it would be £200 more and I wouldn't get the free extras.

 

 

I felt pretty pressured into signing up and part of the reason I went to try with then was because it said free 30day trial, no risk, no pressure. I even said I'd rather try real lessons first and he kept saying I'll be fine and can just take them as private lessons if I don't like it and didn't offer this trial that it mentions on his website.

 

It was also a lump sum and I couldn't do 1 lesson a week without paying for 2 and I got pretty confused about it all and was really tired and started to feel stressed from the pressure which isn't good with my Autism so I paid but now I am home and have calmly thought about it like I wanted to and decided I don't want to spend that amount of money when I'm meant to be paying off debt, especially for something I've not even tried properly.

 

 

So does anyone know if it is possible to give him the free items back and have a refund even though he said it can't be refunded? I know with gyms you get a certain amount of days to decide and then cancel with a full refund so does the same law imply here? If the same law applies, how do I go about approaching him with it? Or is the another way out?

 

Thanks in advance for any advice, it's greatly appreciated.

Edited May 1, 2014 by citizenB

[Conniff]

Do you have proof of this offer, ie newspaper/magazine adverts or a screenshot of their website ?

 

 

What method did you use to pay, debit card, credit card or cash ?

[Dogactor87]

It's still on his website - martialartschester.com

[Dogactor87]

He got his laptop out and handed it to me to pay through paypal.

[BankFodder]

http://www.martialartschester.com/

 

How long ago did you go to the gym?

How old are you? If you are less than 18 then the contract is not binding.

How severe is your autism? Not very severe from the look of your post - but if it was severe enough that you lacked the mental capacity to make a contract, then this could be one possible course of action. You would need medical evidence.

 

I'm afraid that these kinds of story are quite familiar. Gyms tend either to use high pressure sales or else apply disproportionate charges for cancelling a contract

[BankFodder]

Please can you tell me what documents you completed as part of your signing up process? Have you retained copies of the documents?

[Dogactor87]

It was last night but not had any lessons or anything. He just went over the kind of thing I'd be doing. Im 26. I have Asperger Syndrome which is a form of Autism. When I was tested, they marked me as severe. I'm trying to be more independent but seems to go wrong a lot It wouldn't show I have it from a few posts, it's a hidden disability so takes a few meets with people before they notice I'm different.

I don't have the contract as he said he would email it.

[Dogactor87]

Please can you tell me what documents you completed as part of your signing up process? Have you retained copies of the documents?

 

He didn't have any way of making a copy and said that he'd email me everything. The more I think about it, the more dumb I feel. I should of just said no, I need to think about it but I was struggling with all the pressure.

 

It looked like just forms he had made, I think the booking form can be downloaded from him website though.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Dogactor87
Forgot to add something

[BankFodder]

At what point did you tell them about your AS?

[Dogactor87]

I'm wrong. The booking form on the website is different.

[BankFodder]

Also, how long ago did you see their website offer?

[Dogactor87]

At what point did you tell them about your AS?

 

About 10mins before we discussed payment but he did ask if anyone had to be part of making this decision of joining and I said no.

[Dogactor87]

Also, how long ago did you see their website offer?

 

Errr think it was last Friday or Saturday

[BankFodder]

It seems to me that the FMA martial arts gym may be in breach of some of their own rules.

 

In particular, on page 1 of their risk assessment document - http://www.martialartschester.com/downloads/FMA%20Risk%20Assessment.pdf , they say

 

All members are given copies of the club’s Code of Conduct and Risk Assessment.

I assume that you have not been given this - but this must be an important document as it refers to safeguards against injury in a potentially dangerous activity.

 

On page 3 of their Code of Conduct http://www.martialartschester.com/downloads/FMA%20Codes%20of%20Conduct.pdf there is a strict warning at point 10

 

10)

EVERYONE

must collect their attendance card when entering the academy. This is

urgent for health and safety reasons.

 

I gather that you were not given one of these

 

Para. 8 of their constitution http://www.martialartschester.com/downloads/FMA%20Constitution.pdf makes it very clear that

 

8. Membership

General Membership of the club is open to any individual, however, full general membership is

not recognised until a person elects to complete the due registration and insurance documents

as required by FMA ®. Membership can be revoked at anytime as required by any registered

instructor in terms of the rules of FMA.

 

I gather that these documents were never provided to you and that you didn't complete them.

 

If this is all correct, then it seems to me that your contract is not complete, that they have breached their own code of practice which is itself an unfair commercial practice under CPUT - and also they may have breached some of the rules of their own controlling bodies.

 

I would have thought that a valid period of insurance would be an absolutely basic requirement.

 

Please confirm whether what I have set out above is correct.

[Dogactor87]

I was given a timetable and a book on discipline or something but nothing else. I signed 2 forms. 1 had lots of boxes to tick saying I agree to this and that, then another that he said was to confirm I paid. The attendance card stays on the reception desk and you collect it when you arrive.

[BankFodder]

Finally - I'm not quite clear as to how much money you parted with and what is the length of the contract

[rebel11]

It sounds like the contract was for 6 months, no indication of payments made,

 

but the following is worrying form a security point:-

 

'He got his laptop out and handed it to me to pay through paypal.'

[slick132]

Hi Dogactor,

 

Sounds like you have already paid the full amount for the 6 months. If this is the case, perhaps a Paypal dispute would need to be lodged.

 

But we need to know roughly how much you paid.

 

[Dogactor87]

I logged out after but yes now I realise I was stupid. I crumble under pressure and my mind stops working properly and yes it's 6 month contract and total was £397.

[Dogactor87]

Thank you everyone for your help so far, I really appreciate it. I'm struggling to cope with this situation. Part of my Aspergers is struggling in pressured situations, being with strangers and social interaction, it has also made me really stressed so didn't sleep last night and I've been having anxiety attacks all day which has made it very hard to work. I'm hoping I can sort it somehow soon as I don't know how I will calm myself about it if not and already close to tears from it so thank you all again for helping me.

[rebel11]

Hi Dodactor87

 

I know it's difficult, but try to calm down. The guys will advise further as soon as they are available.

 

Thank you everyone for your help so far, I really appreciate it. I'm struggling to cope with this situation. Part of my Aspergers is struggling in pressured situations, being with strangers and social interaction, it has also made me really stressed so didn't sleep last night and I've been having anxiety attacks all day which has made it very hard to work. I'm hoping I can sort it somehow soon as I don't know how I will calm myself about it if not and already close to tears from it so thank you all again for helping me.

[BankFodder]

OK.

First of all do everything in writing.

I don't think that there is any chance of them giving you back your money without a fight so you should write it off - and then if you do get some back, you can treat it as a windfall.

 

The first thing is that your contract may be a typical gym contract which is a rolling contract - meaning after the first 6 months, they may consider that it continues and that they require 30 days notice to terminate it.

 

You want to put a stop to that immediately. Is there any chance that you have signed a direct debit - or any other payment authority?

 

You must write them a letter - keep copies -

and inform that that you are hereby cancelling any contract which they might consider they have with you and that they should consider this letter as formal notice of that cancellation.

 

In the next paragraph you should tell them that you require the return of all money which has been paid to them because yo consider that their standards fall well below those which you would reasonably expect of such an organisation and that they are also in breach of their own rules.

 

In particular,

 

1. They have failed to provide you with a copy of the club’s Code of Conduct and Risk Assessment as required on page on page one of their risk assessment document
   
2. They have failed to provide you with an attendance car despite the fact that at para.10 of their code of conduct it is clear that this is considered to be an extremely important document and must be provided for everyone who enters the academy
   

Also - that depite the fact that you informed them of your Asperger's syndrome, they disregarded it and you consider that they took advantage of your condition as a vulnerable adult

Finally, you believe that the registration documents and insurance documents have not been completed or they have not been properly completed because they were never drawn to your attention or explained to you. Therefore any membership which you might have cannot be recognised and therefore the contract has not been properly completed.

 

 

In any event, you attended the gym on the basis of a free trial but when you did attend you were surprised to find that you were put under pressure to commit yourself to an immediate paid membership without benefit of the trial. Furthermore, it was explained to you that if you tried to take advantage of the free trial, your eventual membership would be £200 more expensive and this means that the free trial is illusory and is merely a bait to get prospects into the gym.

 

Tell them that you consider that this is not acceptable behaviour and that it amounts to an unfair commercial practice under Consumer (Protection from Unfair Trading) Regulations 2009. Tell them that if you do not have an immediate refund that you will report them to Trading Standards who have the power to prosecute for breaches of CPUT.

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In the end, if you wanted, I think that you could sue them fro the return of your money by bringing a small claim in the county court. It is easy and cheap and you have a good chance of success but only you can decide if you feel up to it.

 

However, the letter which I have suggested to you and the complaint to TS should not present any stress problems to you - I hope.

[BankFodder]

One last thing. If you paid by credit card or debt card or by direct debit, then you should call your bank today and give them a verbal instruction not to pay the gym because the authority was obtained by a trick. The deliver a letter to them confirming your instruction not to pay. You must get this into your bank's hands tomorrow - first thing. In the letter make it clear that if the money is paid in disobedience to your instructions that you will make a complaint under the Payment Services Regulations. Get that letter to them first thing - and get a receipt for it.

 

If you can prevent the gym getting the money you will be a very strong position and eventually the gym will give up.

[citizenB]

He got his laptop out and handed it to me to pay through paypal.

 

 

Bankfodder, it would appear Dogactor paid via paypal. See above

[BankFodder]

Whoops, that's right.

So much for my advice about the bank.

 

I suppose that it could be raised with Paypal - but frankly I don't see any issue here which would cause Paypal to reverse the payment. A shame.