What are YOUR opinions on 'shopping' someone?

[essexmat]

I know it is a very emotive subject but one that a lot of people have differing views on in some way.

 

For example, someone on JSA/HB would you shop them if they were doing a few hours work a week to supplement their benefits (cash in hand) as they are struggling?

 

Let them get on with it as we know how they are feeling and how they are struggling to make ends meat?

 

Personally I would feel awful being a grass but I know someone local getting JSA and HB (no, not me!) who does old peoples gardens and when I saw him at the bus stop he was very open about it and said he gets around £50pw average.

 

I only ask as I was offered 4 hours a week cash in hand at £7.50ph a few weeks ago so £30.00 a week and it would really help but would be very worried about someone in the community 'shopping' me and getting prosecuted for fraud and having every benefit stopped.

 

It is hardly worth doing this whilst claiming JSA as I would only be able to keep £5.00pw of the income and the £30 would have to come off the £72.40pw JSA so in effect 16 hours work for £20! I think the rules are a disgrace as some people can only get part time work and need to suppplement their pittance from benefits.

[JoeyJoeC]

Personally, I don't see an issue with earning small amounts will claiming JSA. While I was claiming JSA, I done some gardening work for a neighbor, along with driving someone around for some extra money (a friend who earned a lot).

 

I had some issues with the job center being too strict and kept getting money held back, so no I didn't tell them about it.

[Storm in a T-cup]

Whilst I understand this is a discussion Forum I am Sad to see these kinds of threads popping up recently!

 

These forums are designed for people seeking Help from the community and threads like these are Helping no one Unless you think inciting a "Possible" Flame war between opposing sides of the Coin and generating genuine Stress and Anger is Helping?

 

Just my 2 penny's on the situation you may think I am too sensitive and you may be right but it is how I feel about the OP

[essexmat]

Point taken, if admin want to take it down then so be it

[BankFodder]

I think that Storm in a T-cup is making a very strong point.

However I think that these are the kind of moral dilemmas which crop up everyday - and it is probably very healthy to have somewhere where people can discuss the in an anonymous way.

 

We wouldn't advocate this kind of behaviour on this forum and Storm in a T-cup is right that this is not really the function of this forum. On the other hand this is a community and it is right for people to exchange ideas although we would not be prepared to advise on or encourage on any kind of action which is illegal or immoral.

I can see that with this kind of discussion, things could get very heated but I hope that people can restrict themselves to expressing their view without getting into outraged indignation and condemnation.

[jabba jones]

Whilst I understand this is a discussion Forum I am Sad to see these kinds of threads popping up recently!

 

Sadly I agree. There is a thread from a couple of weeks ago which stretched to multiple pages of advice for someone who from the info they gave away is quite obviously committing fraud. I wasn't the first or only person to notice this, but my response to the thread was deleted!

 

At a time when the press are quite happy to push the "all claimants are thieving sc um & scroungers" angle, to see a board that I have always thought was meant to help genuine claimants then help someone to continue committing fraud was very disappointing.

[essexmat]

Point well made and it was not posted to incite anything other than healthy debate so if you want to take it down then I will accept it goes against the real purpose of this excellent forum

[sillygirl1]

Personally I think this thread should be deleted as it could be used against the site - this is for helping peoople, not hindering them.

 

BTW you can earn up to a certain amount whilst on JSA/HB and still receive benefits, albeit at a lower rate.

[essexmat]

That is the point I am making, if working a few hours what you earn apart from £5 is taken from your JSA so in effect if you earnt £30 extra per week JSA would be £42.40 plus the £5 gratis. Great system isn't it, say £7.50p/h x 4 hours a week = £30 so over a month for 16 hours work you get .... a whole £20!

 

Anyway, delete the thread

[BankFodder]

... to see a board that I have always thought was meant to help genuine claimants then help someone to continue committing fraud was very disappointing.

 

If you are referring to threads on this forum, please will you link me to them. Thanks

[essexmat]

I have not seen any, not saying they are not there but if this is against the grain I apologise for my thread and am happy for it to be deleted.

[estellyn]

Apart from professionally (where someone comes in and says 'I've been committing fraud and need help to come clean and sort it out'), no one has ever told me conversationally that they've been committing fraud. There have been some professionally that I discovered were, and some that I suspected, but our policy was to advise the person to come clean - if we shopped people they'd stop coming for advice.

 

 

If I suspected someone I knew socially of committing fraud, I wouldn't do anything because I didn't know for sure - I know the difficulties that are caused by false accusations. If someone did tell me socially, I don't know, I suppose it would depend on the circumstances. Someone struggling with paying bedroom tax and council tax who has a few pounds cash in hand work that helps them to eat - then no I wouldn't 'shop' them. I'd probably warn them of what they were risking, but to me the greater crime is bringing in benefit regimes that mean that people cannot feed themselves or heat their homes. If someone was working full time and claiming or had some elaborate scheme committing benefit fraud, or was claiming disability benefits falsely then I probably would inform DWP/LA etc.

 

 

Might be controversial, but I have a 'shades of grey' moral code and would need to know circumstance before I took any action that might be harmful.

[jasta11]

My own view is to let them get on with it, if they're making a few quid extra and basically just trying to meet bills and survive - sometimes that extra tenner or £20 can make a huge difference. Plus their 'crime' pales into insignificance when you compare it to, for example, politicians expenses claims and the sheer waste of public money by our wonderful government.

[Alfie29]

I don't see why this post has to be taken down? I feel it is quite an interesting question. I myself feel there is nothing wrong with a FEW xtra quid but would not do it to be honest. But saying that my family sometimes help me out with some money so am I in the wrong? don't think so...?

 

I'm struggling and jobcentre LOVE that!

[f16]

I don't see why this post has to be taken down? I feel it is quite an interesting question. I myself feel there is nothing wrong with a FEW xtra quid but would not do it to be honest. But saying that my family sometimes help me out with some money so am I in the wrong? don't think so...?

 

I'm struggling and jobcentre LOVE that!

 

100% agree with your post !!

To "steal a line" from the "O'jays Loving You"

 

"Long as I keep food on the table... Long as I keep the bills paid"

 

I'm not encouraging "fraud". ... Don't get me wrong. ...But everyone's got to "live"

[osdset]

If I were signing on and really up against it and the opportunity to earn some cash in hand arose, I know what I would do.

If someone I knew was in the same position, I know what I would not be prepared to do.

There but for the grace of God.

[sillygirl1]

The job centre doesn't 'love that' you are struggling, they want you to have a job and never darken their doorstep.

 

The original poster would be 'in the right' if this person was earning a living wage AND signing on/claiming but I don't think they are 'morally riight' in shopping anyone doing odd jobs - how do they know the person isn't bragging to make themselves feel better, or is servicing a huge amount of debt, or has dependants who can't claim bemefit for one reason or another.

 

Blatantly milking the system is wrong.

[jasta11]

Blatantly milking the system is wrong.

 

Hope the Prime Minister reads that; apparently he spends £40 a day on just breakfast. Isn't cornflakes and toast expensive in the Houses of Parliament canteen!

[BankFodder]

Hope the Prime Minister reads that; apparently he spends £40 a day on just breakfast.

 

Blimey!

 

Well milking the system is certainly wrong - but a real shame that we aren't given a better example from our Betters.

[rebel11]

It's actually all subsidized, tax payers pay a bit, the MP's pay a bit, I'm not sure what the split is.

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/house-commons-lords-food-drink-2163757

 

Hope the Prime Minister reads that; apparently he spends £40 a day on just breakfast. Isn't cornflakes and toast expensive in the Houses of Parliament canteen!

[renegadeimp]

Prob 99/1 taxpayers

[rebel11]

Aren't they about to get an increase 11% increase. They should be given coupons.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25287108

 

Prob 99/1 taxpayers

[fletch70]

Just my thoughts

Before even considering shopping someone you have to be absolutely sure of your facts. I think this is particularly important about disability benefits as not all disabilities are obvious.

 

It is a sad reflection that so many people on benefits do some cash in hand work, maybe that is because the basic rate of JSA is not enough to live on although I believe that if you cut your cloth then it is (just) in most cases. Remember that cigarettes and alcohol are luxuries and not essential.

 

I was recently put in a very difficult moral position when a group of people I knew were all making money on the side, some of it legally and some of it less so. I am afraid i copt out by passing my general concerns on to someone whoes job it would be to deal with it.

 

I met a lovely man (ex army) who said he thought all benefits should be stopped for 6 months and people would get jobs. I pointed out that people WOULD die and that crime WOULD increase. He was quite ok with the fact that more people would die . That is the sort of public perception we are up against . Oh this guy was a health and safety man for intraining one of the work place providers

[Mr.P]

It is a sad reflection that so many people on benefits do some cash in hand work, maybe that is because the basic rate of JSA is not enough to live on...

 

With the cuts elsewhere and the imposition of the 'bedroom tax', many have been pushed over the edge of "just surviving". I wouldn't begrudge someone earning a few extra pounds for some honest work on the odd occasion. On the other hand, an undeclared regular weekly job, even if it only paid £20-30 per week, I would be advising them of the possible consequences.

[Nystagmite]

Difficult. You don't know their full situation. I mean, there are some people out there on disability benefits who have disabilities they'd rather not discuss. (because how embarrassing they are or because of how judgmental others can be) They may look absolutely fine. I look normal. But what you don't see is the physical pain from too much noise or light. You don't know what and how much I see or hear. You don't see (because I try to hide it and don't want to make a scene) the frustration inside because it's getting too noisy or there are too many people around, which can give me panic attacks.

 

I once had someone tell me there's nothing wrong with me and that I shouldn't be on benefits. Like most people. he doesn't know my situation. I have a friend who knows my situation slightly better (like everyone else, he doesn't understand it; but can understand some of the issues I have) and did once ask if I do claim DLA. Not because he thought I shouldn't either.

 

As for the cash in hand thing - again, difficult. I can see why people do it though. Not saying it's right;(because I don't know whether it is) but understand that those who do, do it because they're struggling.