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    • Hi.   Please don't hijack this thread, it's for advising the OP.   The best thing is to start a new thread of your own and then we'll advise you.   HB
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I was caught on the London Tube using a Freedom Pass in the name of my Mum and cautioned.

 

I have an interview under caution lined up and

 

prior to this, speaking to the Travel Investigations Unit dealing with my case that there may be a chance to settle this out of court

as they recognize the damage a criminal conviction could do to my future.

 

I am willing to take responsibility for this but if possible ofcourse avoid a criminal conviction.

 

I know I should have thought of this before I began using it but at the time my lack of means to pay for transport was enough for me to disregard this.

 

Does anyone have any experience with this?

 

I have looked over several threads on this forum and can see that it is a rare occurrence for them to agree to settle but when does it happen?

 

Will they take into account my age (just past 19) who has only recently gained his much sought first employment?

 

Is it cheeky of me to try to go this route?

 

If I do decide to try this who should I send my letter to?

 

I also couldn't answer for how long I had been using the Freedom Pass and didn't want to guess and lie.

 

Will they scold me for this?

 

I genuinely couldn't say.

 

Will they be privvy to this information from their database?

 

Even if my friend has voided the one that was confiscated from me so that he could get a new one to use.

 

How far back on the history of the card are they able to see?

 

I would like to begin my defense and cross reference situations in my life that have had some affect on my lapse of judgement in this matter.

 

Thank you for any help you may offer me

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Hello and welcome to CAG. I expect the transport guys will be along later.

 

My understanding is that they can check the last 8 weeks' usage history of the card.

 

You're right that they don't often settle out of court as fare evasion is a big problem, but it's always worth asking. When you rang, did you speak to the person who wrote to you about the IUC? That might be the person to write to, but the guys will know.

 

When is your interview?

 

I have one question though. You say it's your mother's Freedom pass and then later you say it was your friend's. Which one is it please?

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Concessionary pass miss-use is treated very seriously (and quite rightly so)

because it is currently a statutory benefit to those entitled to it

(i.e. the over 60's and disabled) thus it is entirely funded by the public purse

(paid for by tax-paying people like myself).

 

By the sounds of it, you have abused this scheme many times as you say that you cannot remember how long you have been using it.

 

Presumably the pass has been withdrawn and your Mom will have to report the pass as being lost or stolen to obtain a replacement.

 

Should it come to light that she was aware and gave her consent to you using it,

then it will more than likely be permanently withdrawn (and quite rightly so).

 

If it also comes to light that you have been using it on a regular basis (and yes, they are able to and will check),

then it is highly likely they will not want to settle out of court (and quite rightly so).

 

I always ask the question when someone comes on here saying

"I am very sorry for using something I know I am not entitled to" or it was just a "lapse of judgement",

if you hadn't of been caught, how long would you have carried on using it for or are you only sorry for getting caught?

  • Haha 1

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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Sorry for the misunderstanding.

My friend cancelled it for my Mother to receive a new one.

I had been using hers.

And yes I did speak to the person who posted the letter calling me to the interview.

 

Thank you for your help.

 

My Mother was not aware and is upset with me for this but sort of sympathies with my financial troubles

but stresses I should have been honest which I agree with.

 

I am sorry for using it and for getting caught.

It was not intended to be a long term offense,

just one to help me avoid costs for a period of time and save that money.

 

I continued because I was able to and My Mother hadn't been using the card for some time.

 

Thank you for your reply.

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You believe that everyone who pays tax is honest by default? I may have done a silly thing in this instance but I am not a bad guy and I think it's unfair to pit me against so called "honest" people in that way. I accept responsibility for my wrongdoing. I am just trying to prevent as much pain to myself and my family as I can now. Which at this point would be trying to avoid a criminal conviction. Thank you for your reply.

 

But your not.... your trying to avoid going to court and you've come here to ask advice about how to!

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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I realise that what I have done was not allowed.

I haven't yet been summoned to court nor had an official interview regarding the matter.

 

Yes, ofcourse I am looking for advice about avoiding this as from reading previous threads this seems the most likely outcome.

 

Is settling out of court not another way that the law has found enables people to accept responsibility?

 

This is just the route that I would prefer.

 

Granted I am not automatically deserving of the thing that I desire because I have acted in this way but can I not still ask?

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Guys, just a short reminder, the OP has posted for help and advice. I think the OP understands the ramifications of their actions. Further were not here to Judge.

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I've given him "advice" on what to expect.

 

I doubt very much that TFL will settle out of court from what the OP has said.

 

All he can do is wait for the letter and then possible seek legal advice.

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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I've given him "advice" on what to expect. I doubt very much that TFL will settle out of court from what the OP has said. All he can do is wait for the letter and then possible seek legal advice.

 

Thank you for this.

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Guys, just a short reminder, the OP has posted for help and advice. I think the OP understands the ramifications of their actions. Further were not here to Judge.

 

 

I note some of my posts have been removed.

 

I don't see them infringing on any rules so I take exception to this.

 

More so, if you read them properly (and between the lines) you could be forgiven for detecting some text which I highlighted

in a way to say the dialogue the OP was using as an "explanation" was unwise and inappropriate.

 

Kindly re-instate them or give good reason for their removal.

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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I've reviewed the posts, as far as I'm concerned they do breach the site rules. You may if you wish have the posts reviewed by Admin, just use 'Contact Us' at the bottom of this page.

 

I note some of my posts have been removed. I don't see them infringing on any rules so I take exception to this. More so, if you read them properly (and between the lines) you could be forgiven for detecting some text which I highlighted in a way to say the dialogue the OP was using as an "explanation" was unwise and inappropriate.

 

Kindly re-instate them or give good reason for their removal.

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Would be really grateful if anyone could offer any further advice as to legal advice I should seek

and possible actions I can take inbetween now and the interview under caution.

 

My Mother would like to attend this with me.

Is this suggested?

 

I re read my first post and if I didn't seem remorseful to some posters (I feel I did) I must apologise.

 

I am just trying to put down my situation and help myself and my family in any way I can.

 

Like I've said previously I know people have been able to settle out of court and this is preferred to me than to gaining a criminal conviction so that's why I asked.

 

I cannot change the fact that I used the card at this point unfortunately I just need some help on where to go next.

 

I have never been in trouble before.

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I've reviewed the posts, as far as I'm concerned they do breach the site rules. You may if you wish have the posts reviewed by Admin, just use 'Contact Us' at the bottom of this page.

 

You didn't even have the courtesy to advise me before removing them

and I do disagree with your view on them being in breach of the rules.

 

They were not abusive but indicated and high-lighted dialogue that the OP was using which would of prejudiced his argument to either TFL or in court.

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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moji, I dont think there is any more advice that can be given. As already advised, fare evasion is taken very seriously and in the few years I have been on CAG, I have never seen anyone report that they have been able to "settle out of court".

 

You could if you wish, seek out a local solicitor and obtain the half hour (free or reduced fee) session, however, I think it most likely they will tell you the same as the guys on here.

 

For those whose posts have been removed. People come to CAG to seek help and advice - we do not condone far evasion any more than we condone shoplifting or tax avoidance.. however it is NOT our place to judge.

 

If you feel you are unable to give unbiased, unjudgmental advice, then it would be best if you didnt give any advice at all. Having confirmed that the OP has indeed been wrong/naughty/stupid, there is no need to inflict more unpleasantness.

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In the light of the above response, I shall consider my position of continuing to be a member of this forum.

 

Clearly despite my almost 5 years of membership and the many "thanks" I have received during that time counts for very little.

 

I feel that I have bought a lot to the forum in certain areas of expertise and have always tried to give sincere advice.

 

But currently it has become more difficult to find too much spare time to afford to the site due to a new business venture.

 

I do not agree with the two members of the site team on this...

. my posts were a little sarcastic, yes but they were designed to "shoot" the OP's argument down in flames

because had he used the argument to TFL, t

hen they will surely prosecute as quite frankly, his explanation

and reasons for using his mother's freedom pass are quite ridiculous.

 

If I am the only one who can see this, then clearly I am contributing to the wrong site.

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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don't slam the door please.

 

got to admit this a a bit unlike you SS

 

but we cant be seen to be judgemental it helps no-one.

 

if you have so little time for CAG

then why pick threads to just abuse people?

 

also helping other people in the past does not give you immunity or permission to judge

 

p'haps time for a break?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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Would be really grateful if anyone could offer any further advice as to legal advice I should seek

and possible actions I can take inbetween now and the interview under caution.

 

My Mother would like to attend this with me.

Is this suggested?

 

I re read my first post and if I didn't seem remorseful to some posters (I feel I did) I must apologise.

 

I am just trying to put down my situation and help myself and my family in any way I can.

 

Like I've said previously I know people have been able to settle out of court and this is preferred to me than to gaining a criminal conviction so that's why I asked.

 

I cannot change the fact that I used the card at this point unfortunately I just need some help on where to go next.

 

I have never been in trouble before.

 

sri I've not been around today.

 

there has been numerous cases here of settlement before court

 

though I think only one , whereby, it involved a multiple usage of a freedom pass

if memory serves me.

 

I don't honestly think there is 'much' point in you at this stage seeking legal help

 

they will have info probably upto 3mths in the past

 

but its prob better to own up how long you have been doing this here for those who 'will' help not judge you

 

if its a considerable time, like many months

you'll do well to escape a conviction.

 

what you also need to bear-in-mind here is the cost of settling

this could run into or past £1'000

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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Having read through this I hope that what I offer is going to be taken in the spirit that it is intended.

 

I fully understand that the users of CAG come seeking help & advice and the contributors providing answers to those queries volunteer comment of their own free will and to the best of their knowledge and experience, but I do believe that it is not the purpose of this, or any other forum to give unrealistic advice as to the likelihood of avoiding prosecution where this is a likely outcome.

 

As others have said, abuse of trust in relation to using Freedom Passes is always considered to be a serious matter, the likelihood of prosecution if caught is extremely high. The likelihood of achieving a settlement out of Court is extremely low unless there is any procedural error or omission in the evidence that has been reported in this case. This is the kind of detail that needs a trained eye to spot those possibilities.

 

Very, very rarely they may consider exceptional reasons for discontinuing a prosecution, but these will be in response to specific individual circumstances and cannot be applied as a general panacea

 

Personally, I do not believe that having your mother accompany you during any PACE interview is a good idea, if you are being questioned under caution she certainly will not be able to answer questions on your behalf.

 

I strongly suggest that if you are to have any chance, however slim, of avoiding what I do believe is the likely consequence of your actions, then you should urgently seek qualified legal advice of a solicitor who specialises in criminal defence and has a good knowledge of this specific legislation. This is not likely to come cheaply, but without seeking professional help, I cannot offer much if any hope that you will achieve what you desire.

 

Even with the assistance of a solicitor there is no guarantee of success and it may be that the best they can offer is to advise you to plead guilty and then, on your behalf for them to present whatever truthful mitigating factors that they may consider relevant.

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Having read through this I hope that what I offer is going to be taken in the spirit that it is intended.

 

I fully understand that the users of CAG come seeking help & advice and the contributors providing answers to those queries volunteer comment of their own free will and to the best of their knowledge and experience, but I do believe that it is not the purpose of this, or any other forum to give unrealistic advice as to the likelihood of avoiding prosecution where this is a likely outcome.

 

As others have said, abuse of trust in relation to using Freedom Passes is always considered to be a serious matter, the likelihood of prosecution if caught is extremely high. The likelihood of achieving a settlement out of Court is extremely low unless there is any procedural error or omission in the evidence that has been reported in this case. This is the kind of detail that needs a trained eye to spot those possibilities.

 

Very, very rarely they may consider exceptional reasons for discontinuing a prosecution, but these will be in response to specific individual circumstances and cannot be applied as a general panacea

 

Personally, I do not believe that having your mother accompany you during any PACE interview is a good idea, if you are being questioned under caution she certainly will not be able to answer questions on your behalf.

 

I strongly suggest that if you are to have any chance, however slim, of avoiding what I do believe is the likely consequence of your actions, then you should urgently seek qualified legal advice of a solicitor who specialises in criminal defence and has a good knowledge of this specific legislation. This is not likely to come cheaply, but without seeking professional help, I cannot offer much if any hope that you will achieve what you desire.

 

Even with the assistance of a solicitor there is no guarantee of success and it may be that the best they can offer is to advise you to plead guilty and then, on your behalf for them to present whatever truthful mitigating factors that they may consider relevant.

 

Thank you for your response Old-CodJA which appears to contain all of the information that the OP would need.

 

This thread is now closed.

 

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