My CMHT Health Trust Refused To Provide Support. Is This Ethical?

[Andrea Borman]

Hi Folks. I am having real problems with my health trust. I was seeing a social worker in the CMHT and having support from them for many years.Because in 2003 my father died and my family that is my mother and sisters abandoned me.

 

No the CHMT have discharged me without warning a few weeks ago and have not given me a real reason as to why. Except to say that they are now called the CRT, Community recovery team and they don't keep people on long term.

 

I won't go into too much detail here except to say this has been an awful 2 weeks. As because the CMHT have discharged me without any support at all, I am now without a psychiatrist or a social worker and have no friends or family where I live I can go to for support. So I went to the GP surgery but the receptionist would not give me an appointment to see the GP. Who I did not know very well as I had only been to the GP twice in the 4 years I have been living at my new address. As I was going to the CMHT for everything. So went to PALS and they helped me find a new GP and I have only registered at the new GP 3 days ago.

 

The CMHT social worker told me she has referred me to a social worker in a private charity but it's been 2 weeks now and I have heard nothing from them. So I phoned the private charity myself yesterday afternoon and spoke to the receptionist at the help desk who now tells me they did not get the referral from my CMHT. I told the receptionist my situation and because I was in a state she told me to phone NHS direct crisis team. So i phoned the crisis team and told them my situation that the CMHT have discharged me without support but the woman on the crisis line was not very sympathetic and said there is nothing she can do about it.

 

I am not happy with my health trust at all and I am thinking of moving out to another area away from my health trust. But I am on benefits so this is not gong to be easy. But I have no family and the CMHT know this yet they have discharged me without support. So do I need to see a mental health lawyer and where do I go from here? Any advice would be appreciated.

[honeybee13]

Hello there, what a tough situation to be in.

 

Have you looked at any of the mental health charities like Mind, for example? I'd have thought they have experience of this. It's worth checking the websites.

 

HB

[Andrea Borman]

Well you can read my full story here on my 2 threads about this on another discussion forum I post on. It's a longs story that is too long to explain here. That's why am showing you the threads.

 

https://discussions.zoho.com/colinl2/topic/my-family-cut-me-off-without-contact-did-it-happen-to-you

 

https://discussions.zoho.com/colinl2/topic/bad-news-my-social-worker-has-discharged-me

 

It is an American forum so most of the members there are in the USA though there are a few English members like me. The advice I was given there was to get in touch with a mental health lawyer.Which as I am on welfare benefits I would be entitled to Legal Aid.

 

If you read the whole thread some of the members there think my Health trust may not be for filing their legal obligation to me to provide support. Though I am not actually sure if they have to provide support or not or what to do about it. That is to see a lawyer or what.

[antone]

I'd start with your local Citizens Advice Bureau. I think you're right that you might possibly want the services of a lawyer, and CAB might be able to help you with that. Honeybee also offers good advice - check in with Mind or another reputable mental health charity.

 

I'm afraid your specific situation is beyond my area of knowledge, but those are the places I would start.

[Asleep In Wonder]

Hi Andrea

 

 

I am sorry that you have been through such a hellish time. It is a very frightening time when support falls away and you are left without explanation or help

 

 

I see from your posts on the other forum that you have now got a new GP practice to attend. Ask who is the named GP for mental health issues. All practices have to have at least one GP who is designated as the go to doctor. Some GPs seem to view this as

pulling the short straw and it is usually evident who is actually interested in MH as they will have enthusiasm and knowledge of local services that may be available to help you.

When you speak with CAB, ask them to point you to some local Advocacy services too.

 

 

Too often people with MH issues are not listened to and the professional charged with their care allows their own experiences and prejudices to seep through to their work. This

is where a qualified Advocate can really help out. They will ensure that in any consultation they attend with you, that you are given basic respect, are given time to express what you need to express, get clarification, ask questions etc. They cannot argue for you, they are there to ensure you get heard. Though an Advocate can speak for you if you have agreed for this to happen.

 

 

MIND may be able to give you links to Advocacy services too. Have a Google yourself local charities etc. Don't accept Advocacy from anyone who is operating as a sole practitioner, without a supervision structure or who does not hole Advocacy qualifications.

 

 

Finally, at the top of this forum are some "sticky" threads. The first one is "NHS GP SAR Guide" follow the instructions and get a copy of your medical records as held by the GP. This will allow you to get a picture of what has and hasn't been done to communicate your needs to the right professionals.

 

 

The communication within between all tiers and branches of the NHS, can, far too often be utterly terrible. You mention that your previous practice used 9 locums. It could be possible that recommendations/ideas were sent to your GP by staff at the CMHT and this wasn't recorded by the sending party or the receiving one. Sometimes letters don't get read or acted upon by the GP intended, not out of malice, but out of about ten million varieties of communication and admin error. The whole system is massively overloaded and it's we, the patients who are most often the ones who have to deal with the fallout.

 

 

Wishing you all the best Andrea xx

[Asleep In Wonder]

Apologies for the dreadful formatting. It's taken several attempts to get this posted. I wrote it in Notepad, then pasted, adjusted paragraphs/line breaks etc and some of the adjustments didn't stick. Hope what I wrote makes sense!

[Andrea Borman]

Well I got a phone call from the duty social worker of the private charity yesterday morning. She said that the social worker in their local area office will ring me next week. Which I assume is to arrange an appointment. Though she did not say if I would get one to one support as did with the CMHT social worker. She also told me that they never got the referral from my CMHT. So I phoned up PALS again to try to sort this out. As the lady in PALS told me I could ring her again if I had any further problems.

 

But this time I got PALS worker who was not the same woman I spoke to and saw last week. So I had to explain all over again my situation and this PALS worker said that they don't get involved with the CHMT as they only deal with the general hospital. So I told the woman that *******the other woman I saw from PALS last week helped me find a GP and told me I could contact her again if I had anymore problems. But told me PALS don't normally help you find a new GP, they only help with making a complaint. She said that*****the other PALS worker was not supposed to help me find a GP but was doing it to help me out. Then she advised me to go to my GP and tell him my situation as the GP can refer me to other support services, but PALS cannot. First PALS tell me one story now they tell me another story which makes me very angry.

 

I then phoned the CMHT and the receptionist put me though to the duty officer, a CPN. I told the CPN that I was seeing my social worker at the CMHT and I was now discharged. I told him the CPN that my social worker referred me to the private charity. Yet the private charity never got the referral from the CMHT and I had to phone them myself. I also told the CPN,the duty officer what happened with my old GP and that I have now changed my GP. He the CPN then took down my new GP's name and address. I also said that the CMHT social worker told me I was being discharged but that I would be getting support. But the private charity would not tell me if I would get a social worker or not.

 

The CPN said he would talk to the private charity and sort this out. And that he would ring me back. The CPN phoned me back half an hour later and said he could not get though to the duty SW at the private charity. But he will get my notes from CMHT forwarded to the private charity and explain to them my case. The CPN said he will ring me on Monday to let me know what happened. I also have an appointment with my new GP next Friday morning, which is a double appointment for 20 minutes. So I will be meeting the new GP for the first time. That's the update to my story as I have posted it on the other forum.

[Andrea Borman]

I have just got a phone call from the Duty Officer,A CPN, of the CMHT about 10 minutes ago. He said he spoke to the private charity and they are going to give me a social worker.Which is good news.

 

So I am going to have a social worker though the private charity. I also have the appointment on Friday with the new GP. So it looks like things are looking better than what they did a few days ago. As before I didn't know if the private charity was going to take me on or not but at least I now know that they are.

[honeybee13]

That's good news, Andrea, I hope it works out for you. Please let us know how you get on.

 

HB

[Andrea Borman]

Important Update-BAD NEW-Just Heard From Private Charity, they are NOT going to give me a social worker.

I am sorry to tell you that it has all gone wrong. The private charity is NOT going to give me support of a social worker. I got a phone call from the social worker of the private charity this afternoon. She told me that they don't provide one to one support like the CMHT does. She said the only thing they have is their day center but don't give social workers or support workers that give one to one support as they used to do. They only have day centers and that's it. I explained my situation to her again. But she said was not very sympathetic and gave the number of private charity that turned out to be in Manchester and does not deal with MH problems.

 

So I phoned the CMHT and told them what had happened. They put me though to the duty officer which today turned out to be ***** one of my old social workers I had in the past. Before I saw my current CMHT SW who has now left the CMHT. I then found out from **** that the CMHT have not officially discharged me yet but they are going to discharge me. I did not know this until I spoke to***** today because***** my CMHT social worker never told me this.

 

My old CMHT social worker said that I am going to be discharged from CMHT because they thing I no longer need the support. Which is not true and I told the her this.She also said there is no point in me telling my GP to refer me back to the CMHT because they are discharging me. The CMHT social worker has given me an appointment to come and see her at CMHT next week on Wednesday. But the situation is that I am going to be discharged from the CMHT without any support at all. So maybe I will have to see a lawyer as Member X suggested as I don't know where to go from here.

[honeybee13]

Hello Andrea, I'm sorry to hear that.

 

I don't think you've said which private charity it is and you don't have to, but have you tried people like Mind as suggested, or support groups for your particular condition?

 

HB

[Andrea Borman]

Well I don't want to name the charity on the forum but I will tell you by PM. The whole thing sounds wrong. Because first my CMHT social worker(who has now left CHT a few weeks ago) told me I am discharged. But that she is sending me to the private charity for support because in the past I had a SW from that private charity.

 

But it turned out that the private charity have merged with another charity and have changed. So now they no longer provide one to one support as they used to. The only thing they provide is the day center but that's not one to one as I got with my CMHT SW.

 

So as I told you I phone CMHT and one of my old social workers I used to have was the duty worker for that day. So I told her and she said I have been discharged but not officially as yet but am going to be soon. She told me I am being discharged because I no longer need the support. Yes it's true that things have improved since I moved to my new HA, but my argument is that I still need the support. If not from CMHT but somewhere else. And that the GP alone is not enough. But my CMHT seem determined to discharge me and won't take a re-referral from my GP.So I think the only thing I can do is move to another area under another health trust. But because I am on welfare benefits that's not gong to be so easy. As it means I will have to get a private flat. Unless my HA agrees to put me on the home exchange scheme. Then I can move that way.

[Andrea Borman]

Update GP Does NOT Want to Know-CMHT Still Taking the Same Attitude-

 

Well I went to see my new GP yesterday(Friday 2 Days ago) and I got the 20 minutes that I had booked. I was actually in there for 25 minutes but I am sorry to tell you it never went well. I took member(no names) advice which was to explain to my GP what my needs are and not put too much importance on the benefits. So I told my GP I have MH problems and explained to him what they are. I then told the GP my situation that the CMHT are discharging me without support. But he was not very sympathetic or helpful at all. He wouldn't refer me to or make any suggestions to any other support services. And did not offer to talk to or write to the CMHT or look into the situation with them which he could have done. I also told him my father died in 2003 and my mother and sisters have moved away without telling me. His words were-

 

I can't do anything about that I am a GP.

 

The GP saw that I was very nervous which I was and he knew that I had MH problems be he did not care at all.

 

Then when I told him about my benefits he told me he won't do a supporting letter for my PIP because the DWP don't want GP's to do that. The GP is lying as I spoke to the DWP a few weeks ago and they told me that they encourage supporting letters from GP, social worker and other healthcare professionals with your claim. There is also the "statement from someone that knows you section on the DLA claim pack" where your GP, psychiatrist, CMHT social worker or other healthcare professional care fill in to tell them more about your care needs. Which lists the GP as one of the people the DWP accept a statement from.

 

I then explained my GP that my last GP at my old address gave me a supporting letter which I then put in the claim pack and sent off. And that's what I always do every time they renewed my claim for DLA.

 

But the GP said no he is not going to do that he said-

 

No what happens is that you fill in the claim form then the DWP send us a questioner and we tell them about your condition and care needs. If the DWP write to me asking for a letter or more information about you I will do that but I won't do any supporting letter. I don't care what your last GP or other GPs do.

 

So I told him that it is better to include additional information in the claim pack itself such as a letter from the GP, or someone else you see about your MH problem when you send off the claim form. But the GP still said no and that if the DWP write to him asking for a letter from him he will write back to them but he won't give me a supporting letter to put in my claim pack.

 

When I told him more about my MH problems his response was-

 

Look I have got hundreds of mentally ill people on my books.

 

So it was clear that this GP is not very caring or supportive and does not want to know to sum it up in a few words. And the GP told me again that he WON'T do any supporting letter for my PIP when it comes up for review in 2015 when the DWP review everyone on DLA benefits. I don't understand this as the GP acknowledged that I have the needs and MH problems I was telling him about. He also said that I do have the care needs and will tell the DWP that if they write to him. But he won't do a supporting letter for my PIP he will only do it if the DWP write to him. Which is not right.

 

So of course I was very upset then went home and called a taxi cab to the CMHT. When I went to the CMHT office saw how upset I was as I came in there crying and in a terrible state. I told the receptionist what had happened at GP and she told me to sit and wait for the duty worker to see me. Then my old social worker I used to have who I will call Social Worker B. Who I had before Social Worker A my current SW and said she would see me instead of the duty worker. My own social worker has now left the CMHT BTW, just thought I would tell you that in case you didn't know.

 

So I went in and saw my old social worker and started to tell her about the GP and what had happened. But she was not very sympathetic and told me I was getting worked up for nothing by the GP. She went on to say in a matter of fact way that the CMHT are discharging me next week after my appointment with her next Thursday and that is not going to change. I told her I don't want to stay with this GP as he is horrible but she said have to sort that out myself. So I got no support from Social Worker B,my old CMHT social worker and left the CMHT very upset and did not know what to do. I had never found this social worker very sympathetic, she never really gave me the time to talk or listened to me. Unlike Social Worker A my current social worker who I could talked to and understood me better but has now left the CMHT.

 

I then thought about what someone else had told me that maybe if I went to the ER,A+E, the psychiatrist there might be able to help with this situation, regarding the CMHT. So I went the ER but I went to the one in the next district as I did not want to go to the one in my Health Trust area because of past experience there. At the ER,A+E I saw A+E 2 CPNS who were sympathetic. They told me the GP was wrong and he should not have treated me like that. By amazing coincidence they said they know Social Worker B my previous social worker, when I told them her name. The A+E CPN's said they can write to the CMT but they cannot stop them from discharging me. Which is true as the A+E staff are not connected with the CMHT. So they can only talk to them and tell them not to discharge me but if the CMHT want to then, there is nothing that the A+E staff can do about it.

 

So I then went home but was still very upset and phoned up a helpline. They suggested I go to the A+E in my health trust area since they were in the same area as my CMHT, where as the other A+E wasn't. At first I did not want to do this because that nurse in that ER who upset me in 2003. But decided to the A+E at ******** hospital in my health trust area and I saw it was different from the last time I was there in 2003, so I went in. I told the ER, A+E staff my situation and they were sympathetic and said they would call the duty psychiatrist to see what they could do. After a rather long wait I saw the A+E psychiatrist and everything I had told the CPN nurses at the other A+E. The A+E psychiatrist said she could talk to the CMHT which she would do. But she cannot stop them discharging me as she has she had no control over the CMHT. Also she was not a CMHT psychiatrist she worked for the A+E only but she will contact my CMHT on Tuesday after the bank holiday.

 

 

I am very upset with the way the CMHT social worker treated me yesterday and the way I am being treated by my health trust. I suppose it's one consultation that the ER,A+E staff at both hospitals were sympathetic but unfortunately they are unable help with my situation. I will now have to find another GP as I obviously cannot stay with that one. But the CMHT have made it clear to me that they are going to discharge me. In fact I have already been discharged but not officially they said.

 

So I am now without a psychiatrist or a social worker and in addition to that I have an unsympathetic GP who does not want to know. I don't know what to do now. I mean I know that I can change my GP again and PALS told me there is no limit to how many times I can change. But I am in a terrible state as I am stuck here in this health trust area without any support at all and now I am worried that I may end up loosing my benefits because I may be stuck with a horrible GP as well as having no help at all from that health trust. I think the only solution to all of this is to get out of ********health trust area but that means moving out into another flat and I there is a possibility that I may not be able to move. Where do I go from here?

Edited May 5, 2014 by honeybee13
Link removed.

[Asleep In Wonder]

Andrea, please try and get an advocate to help you with this. You could ask your local CAB to signpost you to any local mental health resource centres that are for service users.

 

 

Was the new GP you saw the "named" GP for mental health within the practice?

 

 

It's important to see the one named for MH. They may not be any better than any other GP at the practice but at least you are starting off in the right direction.

[Andrea Borman]

Andrea, please try and get an advocate to help you with this. You could ask your local CAB to signpost you to any local mental health resource centres that are for service users.

 

 

Was the new GP you saw the "named" GP for mental health within the practice?

 

 

It's important to see the one named for MH. They may not be any better than any other GP at the practice but at least you are starting off in the right direction.

 

No I have had experience with the Advocacy in the past and they are useless. I think I should see a MH lawer, which I should be able to do though Legal Aid. There is no actual GP who is specialist in MH. Some may have practiced as a psychiatrist before becoming a GP but there are no specialist MH GPs as such.

 

Yesterday afternoon I got a phone call from the receptionist at my GP surgery and she seemed very concerned about me. She said the A&E contacted them and told the GP I had been there on Friday and the GP wants to see me. So I told the receptionist (who remember I told you is very nice ) that I did not get on well with the man GP. I just said he didn't understand me. And I asked if I could see another GP in the practice.

 

So the receptionist has given me an appointment for 13th May at 10am to see another GP the woman GP and it's another 20 minute appointment BTW.

 

So now I am not going to look for another GP just yet I am going to give that surgery another chance. Apparently one of the staff at the A&E had probably talked to or contacted the GP because I told the A&E staff the whole story. So maybe this woman GP might be more sympathetic and help me. With the man GP, it could be that he misunderstood me which happens to me a lot with other people.

 

Just thought I would tell you the latest news.

Edited May 7, 2014 by honeybee13
Removing link.

[Asleep In Wonder]

Every GP practice has to have a named GP for Mental Health. It's in the practice contract. They have to have one. No exceptions.

[Andrea Borman]

Every GP practice has to have a named GP for Mental Health. It's in the practice contract. They have to have one. No exceptions.

Well I don't know about your GP but the GP practices in my area don't actually have a GP who is specialist in mental health, though they do deal with mental illness.

 

I had my appointment at my CMHT with Social Worker B. She has given me another appointment to come back and see her in 2 weeks time on 28th May, so she has not discharged e yet. But she will do in 2 weeks.

 

As I told you in my earlier post the GP receptionist phoned me and said my GP wants to see me. Because the A&E contacted my GP and told him I went to A&E. So it shows some concern. So it seems someone has talked to that GP(obviously someone from the A&E I went to) and maybe now he does realize I have problems.

 

But I am seeing the other GP in the practice on 13th May, the woman GP. And it's a double appointment for 20 minutes. So I am going to give that GP surgery another chance and wait and see what happens with the other GP.If things don't work out I can always change my GP after that as the members of Computer Chat Forums have told me.

 

Some of the members there have given me good advice and the advice they have given is correct. There is only so much that anyone can do on an online forum. That is they can only advise and tell me what my options are. They cannot talk to my CMHT or anything like that. That I know. But it is still a very stressful situation what I am gong though. And I have been unhappy in that health trust area for a long time but have never had the courage to move out, until now. When It has hit me home that things are not right and they could be so much better for me.

Edited May 9, 2014 by honeybee13
Removing link.

[honeybee13]

Hello Andrea.

 

I've removed the link to the other forum again. I notice they don't allow links either, please don't put the link up again.

 

Thank you, HB

[Andrea Borman]

I am sorry Honeybee13,

 

I didn't know it was against the rules. I only posted the link because my thread on the discussion forum explains the full story, more or less. So that others reading this thread would understand better. No the admins of the other forum don't like links or names of other forums ether.

 

I am sorry I won't do it again.

[Asleep In Wonder]

Andrea, if you don't agree with what I have told you about every GP practice having to have a named GP for MH (this is not a qualified, specialist role) then fair enough, it's not a problem. The information I have given you about named GPs, is correct. There is no need to vent disdain for members of the forum here or the advice offered.

 

 

I hope you are able to access the help you need soon.

 

 

Be well.

[Andrea Borman]

Andrea, if you don't agree with what I have told you about every GP practice having to have a named GP for MH (this is not a qualified, specialist role) then fair enough, it's not a problem. The information I have given you about named GPs, is correct. There is no need to vent disdain for members of the forum here or the advice offered.

 

 

I hope you are able to access the help you need soon.

 

 

Be well.

No No No, you got it all wrong. I don't have any distain(I don't know what that word means) or dislike for the members on this or other forums NO.

 

This is not the only forum I have posted about my problem on. Apart from Computer Chat Forums I have also posted on other forums, The Sleeping Dogs Forum although maybe that was not the wise thing to do, as one was a political and general Discussion forum, although the other was a Mental Health Forum.I even had a post up about t on one of my old blogs, until the admin of In A Flap Forums posted my blog post on his forum and the other members there were nasty to me. But then I was banned from In A Flap forums for some silly reason, so that didn't help.

 

Yes I admit that I don't get on with a lot of people. The way that man GP spoke to me was not very nice. Well you read my earlier post. I am going to see this other woman GP who is the other GP in the practice as maybe she might be different. If that does not work out I am going to find another GP again. As the last thing I want is a GP who is not supportive or helpful.

 

I also want to move out of my Health Trust area as don't want to stay there because of past events and now that they have stopped support. But what makes me feel worse is that I am there on my own with no family or friends which does not help. But even if I did have a friend or boyfriend I would not want to stay in ***** Health Trust area anyway not after all of this.Too much has happened and I would be better off away from that Health Trust.