@lidluk Athena ANPR ticket - advice needed, please. WON AT POPLA :)

[Boofie]

My wife recently received a PCN invoice from this company,

 

after over-staying in a Lidl car park beyond the permitted 90 minutes.

 

I have written and posted an appeal letter to Athena on her behalf,

 

which I posted one week ago.

 

Unfortunately, I do not have proof of posting.

 

Should I follow this up with an email to them or just wait for a response.

 

My concern is they may claim they never received the appeal.

 

I appreciate your advice.

 

Boofie.

[armadillo71]

My wife recently received a PCN invoice from this company, after over-staying in a Lidl car park beyond the permitted 90 minutes. I have written and posted an appeal letter to Athena on her behalf, which I posted one week ago. Unfortunately, I do not have proof of posting. Should I follow this up with an email to them or just wait for a response. My concern is they may claim they never received the appeal. I appreciate your advice.

 

Boofie.

 

Was the appeal as the driver or registered keeper?

When does their time limit for appeal ' run out '? Depending on that I would wait for a reply as there has been the easter break.

What was your appeal out of interest ?

[Boofie]

Hi Amardillo

 

The appeal is written as registered keeper, who is my wife (she was also the driver at the time, but we have declined to name the driver). We sent the letter within a couple of days of receiving the PCN, so there is still some time to run (I understand they have upto 35 days to issue a popla code). The appeal is based on Athena not being the land owner, and therefor not having the right to issue the charge, and the charge not being representative of losses anyway, since it is a free car park.

 

I have just read that Athena and other comapnies denying they received an appeal, then trying to enforce the charge.

[silverfox1961]

Hi,

You could email them to see whether they have received the letter. If they say no then you could appeal again via email then they cannot say they did not get it.

[armadillo71]

Hi Amardillo

 

The appeal is written as registered keeper, who is my wife (she was also the driver at the time, but we have declined to name the driver). We sent the letter within a couple of days of receiving the PCN, so there is still some time to run (I understand they have upto 35 days to issue a popla code). The appeal is based on Athena not being the land owner, and therefor not having the right to issue the charge, and the charge not being representative of losses anyway, since it is a free car park.

 

I have just read that Athena and other comapnies denying they received an appeal, then trying to enforce the charge.

 

 

The BPA CoP states that you should get an acknowledgement of your appeal within fourteen days and a rejection or cancellation within thirty five days. It is not binding and all PPCs frequently ignore it without any real consequences... Athena (along with others) stall on the POPLA code and when given, it is out of date. We can check that when you receive it. The POPLA code has a 28 day time limit.

[Boofie]

Thank you for your responses. I think I will wait for a reply back from Athena and take it from there.

[Boofie]

My wife has received a reply from Athena. They have predictably rejected the appeal. Their letter contains a POPLA code. Bizarrely, it refers to my wife as the driver, although this has never been confirmed. It is obviously some kind of computer-generated template.

 

We now wish to appeal through POPLA. Is there a standard letter we can use and adapt? This is al new to me. My wife would rather pay £90 than face court. Personally, I would rather burn £90 than give them a penny!

 

All advice is appreciated.

 

Boofie

[armadillo71]

My wife has received a reply from Athena. They have predictably rejected the appeal. Their letter contains a POPLA code. Bizarrely, it refers to my wife as the driver, although this has never been confirmed. It is obviously some kind of computer-generated template.

 

We now wish to appeal through POPLA. Is there a standard letter we can use and adapt? This is al new to me. My wife would rather pay £90 than face court. Personally, I would rather burn £90 than give them a penny!

 

All advice is appreciated.

 

Boofie

 

 

Have a read of this thread;

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?414881-athena-parking-charge***Appeal-Success***

 

 

Basically you state you wish to see, through sight of contract, that Athena have lawful authority to issue and pursue this parking charge notice.

And you wish to see a breakdown of the genuine pre estimate of loss that this charge must represent for breach of alleged contract.

(Athena signs are ambiguous and seem to be a contractual charge but also mention beaching terms and conditions.)

 

 

Check when POPLA code was generated here; http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/popla-code-checker/

[ericsbrother]

Make it clear tha the appeal is as the keeper of the vehicle and point out that if Athena wish to pursue the driver then they are free to do so but they should make this clear that this is their intention and release the keeper form any obligation to pay before doing so.

[Boofie]

Thanks everyone. How does the following look?

 

 

Dear POPLA

 

I am the registered keeper of vehicle registration xxxxxxxxx and I contend that I am not liable for the alleged parking charge. I wish to appeal against the notice on the following grounds:

 

1. Athena ANPR have failed to clarify whether the charge is for damages arising from breach of contract or a contractual charge.

 

2. If this is a claim for damages, I require Athena ANPR to provide a full breakdown of genuine pre-estimates of loss to the landowner that this charge represents. Obviously, business running costs do not apply. I contend that the landowner and Athena ANPR have suffered no loss on an alleged overstay in a free car park.

 

3. If this is issued as a contractual charge, I require Athena ANPR to provide proof that the charge is fair, reasonable and not punitive. I submit that Athena ANPR has not provided a mechanism on site if the driver wishes to stay for longer than 90 minutes, and it is an unfair attempt to make a party pay excessively for an event which would normally be 'breach of contract.' I contend that the £90 charge is punitive, and an unenforceable penalty.

 

4. Finally, I require Athena ANPR to produce to POPLA the contemporaneous and unredacted contract between the landowner and Athena ANPR that authorises them to issue parking charge notices. I contend that there is no contract with the landowner that entitles Athena ANPR to levy these charges and to pursue these charges in their own name in the Courts, and Athena ANPR therefore has no authority to issue charge notices.

 

I therefore respectfully request that my appeal is upheld and the charge dismissed.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

The Registered Keeper

[armadillo71]

That covers it all I would say...

Maybe add that the driver has not been admitted/proved, so the appeal rejection letter is addressed wrongly.

I reckon that Athena won't even offer any evidence when they see your appeal to POPLA.

[Boofie]

Thank you armadillo. I have added the line you suggested, and submitted the appeal letter. Do I need to do anything else, or just sit back and wait? The site refers to submitting evidence, but I have no other evidence to submit that I am aware of.

 

Boofie

[f16]

Do I need to do anything else, or just sit back and wait?

 

Boofie

 

"Sit back and relax"

 

With your very eloquent POPLA appeal and armadillo's advice,

I would say "All bases covered"

Good Luck

F16

[armadillo71]

As above...

You should get/have got an email back from POPLA with the appeal text that you submitted. You do not need to add to that. You will get another email from POPLA stating a date when or close after that your appeal will be heard.

if Athena offer any evidence, then you should receive that before that date.

[Boofie]

F16 and armadillo, thank you.

[labrat]

im sorry but thats so well written ive stolen it for my appeal

[Boofie]

You are very welcome, labrat. The abbreviated version is:

 

 

Dear Athena ANPR

 

Backatcha!

 

Love Boofie

 

 

Hehe...good luck with your appeal.

[Boofie]

Help, we have just received Athena's evidence pack. They appeared to claiming a contractual charge. Do I need to do anything?

 

Boofie

[f16]

Help, we have just received Athena's evidence pack. They appeared to claiming a contractual charge. Do I need to do anything?

 

Don't get "Spooked" or start "Trippin" on the ream of "Rubbish" sent to you.

 

The defense you sent was spot on IMO. You covered all bases.

[armadillo71]

Help, we have just received Athena's evidence pack. They appeared to claiming a contractual charge. Do I need to do anything?

 

Boofie

 

Have they included photos of the signage? If so, can you post up please.

And is it the correct sign for the location?

[Boofie]

They have included photos of signs. I can't confirm the signs are identical to the ones at the car park, without going back to the site and comparing the two. I haven't appealed on the basis of the signs, but I can still post them up here if you tell me how to.

 

I have gone through their evidence pack and tried to pick holes in it. I have written a response below (it repeats much of what I said before, but adds a few extra comments based on their evidence). The appeal date is soon. Can I still submit this? Thanks again everyone!

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam

 

Following receipt of the evidence pack from Athena ANPR, I would like to submit the following response to be considered at the POPLA appeal.

 

Firstly, in the event that the charge is being issued as a contractual charge, I required Athena ANPR to provide proof that the charge is fair, reasonable and not punitive. In the evidence pack, Athena ANPR have claimed the £90 is a contractual charge, but have failed to provide any proof that the charge is fair, reasonable and not punitive. Moreover, they do not dispute that they have not provided any kind of payment mechanism on site if the driver wishes to stay for longer than 90 minutes. I again maintain this is a purposeful and unfair attempt to make a party pay excessively for an event that would normally be considered breach of contract. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, I again contend that the £90 charge is punitive and a non-enforceable penalty.

 

Secondly, I required Athena ANPR to produce to POPLA the contemporaneous and full redacted contract between the landowner and Athena ANPR that authorises them to issue parking charge notices. In their evidence pack, by their own admission, they have failed to provide this. Instead, they have included a letter dated 20th March 2013, which is clearly neither a contract nor contemporaneous. The content of the contract therefore remain unknown, even if it were still valid at the present time, or indeed if it existed in the first place. I note that the letter provided does not in any way confirm that Athena ANPR has the authority to issue parking charges at the xxxx site. The letter is out of date and lacking in specific detail with regards to location. Moreover, it is signed by a Mr. Adam Rendell, an IT Director, rather than a person of legal standing, such as Solicitor or Company Secretary, and it is doubtful Mr. Rendell is in a position to comment on legal matters. Given the refusal to provide contractual proof, I again contend that there is no contract with the landowner that entitles Athena ANPR to levy these charges and to pursue these charges in their own name in the Courts, and Athena ANPR therefore has authority to issue these charge notices.

 

I again respectfully request that the appeal is upheld, and the charge dismissed.

 

Yours faithfully

[ericsbrother]

Ok, so your POPLA appeal will be twofold, firstly no evidence of contract that allows Athena to claim anything in their own name and secondly, IF such a contract exists, the money claimed from you does not represent a loss or genuine pre-estimate of loss to the company.

The rest of your submission, whilst interesting, is flawed in terms of what constitues a contract and who may agree one so best not go there.

[armadillo71]

I think you should add what you have written above to your appeal. You have pointed out that they may try and dress it up as a contractual charge, but in reality the charge is for supposed breach of contract.

Which must then be a genuine pre estimate of loss...

And of course they have to show they have the legal right to issue and pursue these charges, or any body could do it....

 

(you have asked for ' the full redacted contract ' ?)

[Boofie]

Thank you ericsbrother for your reply. I have made a couple of tweaks based on your advice.

 

Armadillo, that was a typo. Changed to unredacted!

 

I will let you know the outcome,

 

Boofie

[Boofie]

Our POPLA appeal has been successful! I'm so pleased! It was accepted on the bassist that Athena did not have authority to issue the parking charge notice.

 

I want to say a big thank you to everybody who has helped me. I'm very grateful!

 

Boofie