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UKCPS PCN claimform Help!

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Hello fellow motorists,

 

I have received a claimform from Northampton County Court from a PCN UKCPS stuck on my windscreen in October 2013,

 

I have acknowledged the letter but need some help in writing up a defence.

 

I must start by saying I did ignore letters received by UKCPS which now I obviously know doesn't work any more.

 

I parked in a car park which is split into 2 parts,

1 half if for customers of a store and

the other half is permit holder only,

 

The permit holders only section where I was parked

has no signs (at the time of the PCN being issued) to say a permit is needed

or that there is any parking restrictions to park there.

 

They have installed signs recently though.

There is also no signs upon entering the car park which are visible.

 

I just don't know how to word such a defence

i'm not very good at this legal malarkey so any help will be very much appreciated.

 

The claimform says the following

 

Claim against MR for outstaying a parking charge issued to vehicle

* on the land named

 

this land is managed by UKCPS Lts and vehicles parked at the site are subject to parking restrictions

set out on signs at the site and form a contract

between the driver of the vehicle and UKCPS

 

lts. Mr or driver who may have been the driver or alternatively

has chosen not to name the driver and is therefore responsible for the payment as

required under Schedule 4 of Protection of freedom act 2012

by parking on this land

a driver contractually agrees to pay a charge of #100

for use of the space.

 

The amount remains unpaid and stands at #150 including costs

incurred in collection.

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Hi rockfire and Welcome to CAG.

 

The "Legal Crew" will no doubt assist .... but being a Bank Holiday it is a bit quiet !!!

 

When did you receive the Court Papers ?

F16

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Thanks for the reply F16, The papers come through Thursday morning, Not sure where to start to be honest. Hope somebody can point me in the right direction!

 

Many Thanks

Rockfire.

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if its an overstay then nowt to do with it being a permit holders area

 

where did you get that from?

 

dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

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can you type up the exact PoC please

 

or scan it

 

**you can post up images/letters by this method immediately..you don't need 10 posts**

.

set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

.

************************* ************************* *******

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

************************* ************************* ***********

.

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

http://www.convert-jpg-to-pdf.net/

..

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or http://www.freepdfconvert.com/

or

use www.pdfmerge.com

 

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though DONT USE BANK NAMES or CAG in the title

i'e Default notice DD-mm-yyyy

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

...

YOU DONT have to put a link to the attachment in the msg box..just upload it ..job done

.

dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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Hope somebody can point me in the right direction!

 

Someone will don't you worry on that score.

Advice on this site is first class !!

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I've attached the court letter, I also have all corresponding letters & the PCN would these help as well?

 

Many thanks with this.

 

Regards

rockfire

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OK, just tell us what exactly the claim against you says,

 

does it mention breach of contract or trespass or breach of conditons or money owed under a contract?

 

the response will differ slightly for each of the claims but they are all similar.

 

You need to do a bit of research if you can ,

 

who owns the land and

how is the permit holders part separated?

 

is there a gate,

what signs are there

and what signs are at the entrance to the land.

 

If you can get back there and take pictures it will help you enormously,

especially if the signs are obscured or unintelligible.

 

This could mean that an argument of no contract being formwed would be your first line of defence.

More when we know what UKPCS are demanding.

 

Also,

when exactly did you receive the ticket on windscreen/first letter

and what does it say?

 

Timings are vital for a claim against the owner of a vehicle to even stand a chance of being allowed.

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the claim states

- The claim relates to an unpaid contractual parking charge for not displaying a valid permit or authority.

 

The permit holders parking is not separated from the customers car park with anything,(its a small shopping outlet)

 

The was no signs upon entry to the main car park

and certainly no signs when crossing into the permit holders,

 

I have been back to the car park and the closest sign from the entrance to the permit section almost 30 foot away

and is not noticeable as its so small.

 

I have been and taken pictures of the entrance to the car park and entry to the so called permits only section.

 

The ticket was placed on my car the beginning of October last year

 

and the first notice letter was received 4 weeks later.

 

I'm just not sure how i would word the defence.

 

This is what is on the claim form.

 

Claim against Mr for

parking charge issued to vehicle

on land named•••••••••

This land is managed by UKCPS Ltd and

vehicles parked at the site are subject to

parking restrictions which are set out on

signs at the site and form a contract

between the driver of the vehicle and UKCPS

Ltd. Mr or a driver parked the

vehicle On Without a

valid permit or authority. Or the keeper who

may have been the driver or alternatively

has chosen not to name the driver and is

therefore responsible for payment as

required under Schedule 4 of the Protection

of Freedom Act 2012

By parking on this land a driver

contractually agrees to pay a charge of #100

for use of the space. The amount remains

unpaid and stands at #150 including costs

incurred in collection

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rockfire

Need the date of the ticket on the screen .This should be on the ticket.

Also the date the first letter arrived.

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sorry the date is 10/10/13 on the ticket, the first letter arrived 12/11/13

 

Many Thanks

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You say letter received 4 weeks later, for it to be correct under the PoFA it must be received between 28 and 56 days after the day of the ticket. If it was sent too soon then it doesnt count. Do you have the date of posting and the date of your receipt of it by any chance?

It is interesting they use the words without authority. Authority is not their to grant any more than an estate agent can tell you who to sell your house to.

See if you can find out who occupied the permits only section andwhether they have a separate contract with UKPCS or whether it is a blanket contract with the other store.

Any way, their claim is for money owed under a contract so how that measures against parking without authority which is trespass. If it is trespass then it is the landowner who can sue you for damages and you need to ask yourself how much damage did your car do?

Back to the contract. As you are clearly breaching that contract (according to them) then you are obliged to pay a sum that is the liquidated damages for the breach. Now those damages must represent the loss made by the company for your breach and that loss in a free car park will be zero. Any claim that cannot be properly justified is a penalty clause and that isnt allowed.

You can also argue that it isnt a contract but an invitation to treat or that it is an unfair clause but both of these have their pitfalls.

I would be asking for a copy of the contract between the landowner or occupier (now the permit section will have a separate occupier so 2 contracts) that allows UKPCS to litigate in their own name.

You can do this by writing to them and if they dont reply make an application for the claim to be struck out for UKPCS having no locus standii. (no right or interest) see parking prankster's blog for some PE claims destroyed by this.

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OK letter in time so no procedural error. They should have made it clear that they are claiming against you as RK becuse you didnt identify driver, cant have it all ways so this should be pointed out on the day.

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Can you upload the photos so we can have a look.

 

Again as ericsbrother has previously posted.

There has to be a sign at the entrance.

Signs must be 450mm X 450mm Minimum

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See attached PDF with photos of the car park. since October 2013 (post the PCN) they have put up some signs for the permit sections, would this effect my defence?

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rockfire

If you could get a photo or 2 of the sign you found 30 feet away that would be of use.

Along with what it says.

On the face of it I can't see a sign at the entrance and you were therefore unaware you had entered in to a "Contract" !!

 

Measure it as well (Photo with tape measure in place).

Because you said "It's so small"

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You said "I've acknowledged the letter" Post #1.

Read "fudgemisty" thread. 2 or 3 below you.

ericsbrother post #2. First paragraph.

 

Is that what you have done ???

WE don't want you "tripping over" at the first hurdle !!!!

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Hi,

 

yes I have returned the acknowledgement back to say I will defend the claim in its entirety. I just need to write up a defence now but would like some advise on how to word it. I may go back and get pictures of the signs first but its a good 30mins drive away!

 

Cheers

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rockfire

The more "Holes" we can find in their "Claim" the stronger your defense and the better your chances are.

If they are not following BPA code of practice. That is 1 point.

If they can't produce a contract. That is another.

If they can't prove GPEOL. Another.

 

The signs "may" have incorrect text !!!!

Regards F16

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Ok, as it is going to court anyway tell us where the car park is and I will have a look as I go to Carshalton and Cheam on a regular basis so can take a detour.

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From the images you have posted there is inadequate signage and that will probably do for a DJ to throw the claim out if you get the full details clearly laid out. You can quote the BPA's code of practice amongst other things.

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Just had a drive up to take some pics of the signs, seems a couple have been put up since October. See attached.

 

What's the success rate when these things go to court, is it 50/50?

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rockfire

Your chances are higher than 50/50..... By along way !!!!!

 

The entrance sign must be at the entrance as you "turn in" off the public highway.

 

There is no sign.

Read ericsbrother post # 20.

If you let him know the car park in question, he is offering to "check it out"

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Just seen ericbrother post thanks for the offer but the car park is in Halifax Yorkshire I think its might be a bit out for for a detour lol.

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Ok so i have found out the owner of the land Yorkshire Co-operative don't know if this info could help me or not.

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