Parking ticket > employer paid it...............

[jaisunny]

I need some advice please.

 

I parked in a bay on the side of a road at 6.39pm,

 

i got out and looked at the parking meter and it said 8.30am - 18.30pm chargeable.

 

Again had another look around and went about my business. I was in a company vehicle.

 

A week or so later a parking notice comes through to my employer.

 

A cctv camera got me in a restricted parking zone!.

 

I went right onto google maps street view and i can clearly now see a restriction notice sign between 6.30pm - 7.00pm (god knows why).

 

This sign is protruding out of the kerb facing the road and i remember parking right up against the parking meter (the sign is next to this).

 

So with my vehicle parked up against this signage there was no way i could view this sign without standing in the other side of the road.

 

my employer got the ticket and notified my line manager who then in turn forwarded it on to me.

 

I appealed it on the grounds the signage was poor if you park a van next to it (which i did) a

nd the parking meter did not explain the restrictions.

 

Of course part of the appeal i admitted i was the driver so had to give my name + address.

 

The council refused the appeal and send the decision to my employer again (not myself who i declared i was the driver, which i thought was odd of them??)

 

Now my employer decided to send the appeal decision to my OLD email account

which i had notified them via email that i no longer will use this email account 6 months ago.

 

I did used to check it once a week or every 2 weeks or so to make sure i wasnt missing anything important (as i used that email on old CV's..etc).

 

when i logged in and saw this email already the time had run out to pay at reduce costs

OR let a independent adjudicator decide if the ticket should stand or not (i would of appealed again with the latter).

 

I also noticed the scanned in appeal decision and other documents the council sent was not scanned in correctly

and the appeal to the independent adjudicator part was half missing in the scan (my employer scan to me).

 

I notified the fleet manager that i got the email (eventually) and that i was my old email account

and that he did not scan me the copies in properly.

 

The fleet manager agreed to send me the paperwork via mail to my home address. I did not receive this letters.

 

So by this time the ticket had risen to £165. And my employer decided to pay it + charge me £25 for admin costs. Total £190.

 

Now they are demanding i sign a document to pay it which i feel i had acted accordingly and never did get the opportunity to appeal to the independent adjudicator which i strongly wanted to do. I am being constantly pressured to sign this document to allow them to take £190.

 

I am wondering how i can go about this? its been 1 year and my employer reckons the council is at fault and that if i pay the employer i can then appeal the ticket again with the council. I know this is utter rubbish as i believe once you pay your guilty.

 

Just wondering what i can do in this odd case?

[Jamberson]

Odd though this may sound, I don't think this is a parking issue first and foremost. What you describe is a dispute between yourself and your employer, who is charging you for a PCN plus his own costs. Your issue is with the employer, not the council.

 

What they told you about paying is utter rubbish - you are right. The question then boils down to who is liable for the PCN. In other words, who owns the vehicle, and who is named on the PCN paperwork coming through? I assume it is your employer - so you will need to look at your employment contract and see what it says about penalty charges on vehicles, and who is to pay them.

 

Can you check and let us know.

[jaisunny]

Odd though this may sound, I don't think this is a parking issue first and foremost. What you describe is a dispute between yourself and your employer, who is charging you for a PCN plus his own costs. Your issue is with the employer, not the council.

 

What they told you about paying is utter rubbish - you are right. The question then boils down to who is liable for the PCN. In other words, who owns the vehicle, and who is named on the PCN paperwork coming through? I assume it is your employer - so you will need to look at your employment contract and see what it says about penalty charges on vehicles, and who is to pay them.

 

Can you check and let us know.

 

Contract states its down to myself to pay parking tickets. But my question here are..

 

1. When i declared i was the driver of the alleged parking offence by appealing the ticket, Why did the council send the appeal decision to my employer? its not an employers job after a driver admits to being in control of the vehicle at the time.

 

2. I did not have the chance to send the appeal to the independent adjudicator because as mentioned above in point 1 and also the fact my employer emailed me the appeal decision with the adjudicator documents to my old email account delaying the process/time frame.

 

I would of loved to have taken this to a independent adjudicator but i never got the chance to due to not receiving the paperwork to do so.

[Jamberson]

The problem you have is that PCNs are the legal responsibility of the owner of the vehicle, not the person who parked it. For that reason, the Council is legally obliged to send its decision back to the owner, whose debt it is, and so that part is correct. It is then up to the owner whether or not they want to apply for a tribunal hearing.

 

That's why I say your dispute is with the employer. They took a course of action which has denied you a chance to absolve yourself from paying. Now they want you to reimburse them, and since it's in your contract that you should, then I don't see you have much of a case against them.

 

The only thing I would suggest is that you look into the wording of your employment contract. If it says, as you say, that you are obliged to pay parking tickets, then they have no legal right to pay them for you and then charge you for what they did. If it says that you must compensate them for PCNs you incur, then they can pay and then make you reimburse them. Even so, the best outcome for you seems to be a legal dispute with your employer, which I presume isn't a path you particularly want to go down.

[jaisunny]

The problem you have is that PCNs are the legal responsibility of the owner of the vehicle, not the person who parked it. For that reason, the Council is legally obliged to send its decision back to the owner, whose debt it is, and so that part is correct. It is then up to the owner whether or not they want to apply for a tribunal hearing.

 

That's why I say your dispute is with the employer. They took a course of action which has denied you a chance to absolve yourself from paying. Now they want you to reimburse them, and since it's in your contract that you should, then I don't see you have much of a case against them.

 

The only thing I would suggest is that you look into the wording of your employment contract. If it says, as you say, that you are obliged to pay parking tickets, then they have no legal right to pay them for you and then charge you for what they did. If it says that you must compensate them for PCNs you incur, then they can pay and then make you reimburse them. Even so, the best outcome for you seems to be a legal dispute with your employer, which I presume isn't a path you particularly want to go down.

 

Thanks for your input, of course if legally i should reimburse my employer i will do. I just feel robbed of a opportunity to appeal.

 

I will check the wording of my contract now, hold on.

[jaisunny]

This is what it states under the PARKING FINES section.

 

- Parking fines and fixed penalty charges are the responsibility of the driver. They should be paid immediately

 

- If the company has to pay a fine or fixed penalty charge a administration fee of £25 will be deducted from your salary.

[Jamberson]

The meaning of the contract is pretty clear in everyday terms: You have to pay your own PCNs. That said, there are issues arising from the wording which you could take legal advice on if you wanted. In all seriousness though, do you want a legal dispute with your employer?

 

It says you are responsible for "Parking fines" and "fixed penalty charges". In this case you were not issued a fine or fixed penalty, so that part seems irrelevant, although they would no doubt argue that a PCN is a parking fine in everyday language.

 

It also mentions a fee if the company "has to" pay one. Did they "have to" pay this, when the appeals route was open, or did they choose to, for their own convenience? If the latter, then the £25 fee is possibly invalid.

 

There are all sorts of complex issues about making you responsible for their debt, and what responsibility implies, and who should "pay them immediately", and what "immediately" means, and how the wording compromises your right to defend yourself against invalid PCNs, and so on. Like I say, I'm not a solicitor and can't advise on that, but a face-value, looking at the plain intent of the contract - you are required to pay the PCN. Sorry, I can't be of any real help on this one.

[jaisunny]

The meaning of the contract is pretty clear in everyday terms: You have to pay your own PCNs. That said, there are issues arising from the wording which you could take legal advice on if you wanted. In all seriousness though, do you want a legal dispute with your employer?

 

It says you are responsible for "Parking fines" and "fixed penalty charges". In this case you were not issued a fine or fixed penalty, so that part seems irrelevant, although they would no doubt argue that a PCN is a parking fine in everyday language.

 

It also mentions a fee if the company "has to" pay one. Did they "have to" pay this, when the appeals route was open, or did they choose to, for their own convenience? If the latter, then the £25 fee is possibly invalid.

 

There are all sorts of complex issues about making you responsible for their debt, and what responsibility implies, and who should "pay them immediately", and what "immediately" means, and how the wording compromises your right to defend yourself against invalid PCNs, and so on. Like I say, I'm not a solicitor and can't advise on that, but a face-value, looking at the plain intent of the contract - you are required to pay the PCN. Sorry, I can't be of any real help on this one.

 

Thanks for that,

 

Are you sure a PCN is not a fine or a fixed penalty? technically i thought it was either of those..? maybe i am wrong.

 

Do you think on the basis i was not granted the opportunity ie... the independent adjudicator documents within the time frame to appeal is a good enough reason to dispute this with my employer? and what would you mean by 'dispute' ? via legal methods or simply disputing them via writing?

[Jamberson]

A fine is imposed by a court or police (on the spot fines). They are issued for criminal offences and non-payment leads to arrest and court summons etc.

 

A Fixed Penalty Notice is also issued by the police under a different act.

 

A Penalty Charge Notice is non-criminal, is issued by a representative of the local council, and has no attached police or court involvement. It results in a civil debt between the vehicle owner and the council. (Hence, it is a "charge", not a "fine".)

 

So, fines and fixed penalties are covered in your contract, whereas PCNs are not - but as I said, your employer would probably not much care about the strict definitions and would consider a PCN to be a "parking fine" in everyday language.

 

You can dispute it with your employer any way you see fit, but I would suggest talking to them first, or putting something formal in writing. Ultimately, you could get a solicitor involved if you feel it's worth it. This is really employer/employee stuff, and you might be better posting on a different part of the forum for some expertise. You would have to weigh up the possibility that it might sour your relations with them if you went down a formal route. Do you have a union rep who could talk to them initially?

[jaisunny]

A fine is imposed by a court or police (on the spot fines). They are issued for criminal offences and non-payment leads to arrest and court summons etc.

 

A Fixed Penalty Notice is also issued by the police under a different act.

 

A Penalty Charge Notice is non-criminal, is issued by a representative of the local council, and has no attached police or court involvement. It results in a civil debt between the vehicle owner and the council. (Hence, it is a "charge", not a "fine".)

 

So, fines and fixed penalties are covered in your contract, whereas PCNs are not - but as I said, your employer would probably not much care about the strict definitions and would consider a PCN to be a "parking fine" in everyday language.

 

You can dispute it with your employer any way you see fit, but I would suggest talking to them first, or putting something formal in writing. Ultimately, you could get a solicitor involved if you feel it's worth it. This is really employer/employee stuff, and you might be better posting on a different part of the forum for some expertise. You would have to weigh up the possibility that it might sour your relations with them if you went down a formal route. Do you have a union rep who could talk to them initially?

 

 

Appreciate your explanation which makes sense now, i do have a union rep which i could give a call i guess. Also my relationship with my employer is already sour as i aired some concerns about some bully managers and it seems it was not taken lightly with other senior management during that process.