disclosures prior to ET **WON**

[Bennyboy98]

Hello All - Ist time post.

In seeking further disclosures from the Respondent prior to ET, is the correspondence to and from them able to be discussed at the ET hearing?

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I'll move this to our employment forum where the guys will know the answers for you.

 

I'll leave a short term redirect from this forum that you can follow to the other one.

 

HB

[Emmzzi]

Would it benefit your case to do so? What do you want to discuss?

[Derwent]

Have they marked the correspondence as "Without Prejudice" ?

[Bennyboy98]

It's that in answer to my request(s) the Respondents solicitor, for example, states that grievance witness statements "were not put before the disciplinary panel or the appeal panel".

This is untrue as they were included in the bundles to said panels.

I am finding it very time consuming having to write back to her about issues like the example above.

Is this normal practice to try and frustrate me?

Should I draw it to the ET's attention?

[Bennyboy98]

None of their correspondence is marked "without prejudice.

[Emmzzi]

It's very normal to try and wind you up, yes. Don't play.

 

The ET won't really care about games played outside of the court, they'd never get any work done if they refereed. Just make sure they get the evidence on the day.

[Bennyboy98]

I thought so. Many thanks.

[steampowered]

Yes, it can be disclosed.

 

Whether it would help you is another matter. The Tribunal usually is not interested in this kind of stuff. You need to focus on winning the substance on your case, not on trying to prove that them or their lawyers aren't very pleasant.

 

However this kind of stuff could be used on cross-examination to damage the credibility of a witness, if you can prove that something they are saying is untrue or that they have changed their story.

[Sidewinder]

Steampowered has said it in a nutshell really. The main point of your case is whether a dismissal was unfair (or whatever the claim is for) with regard to the law. Everything else is purely supporting evidence.

 

So, for example, the law requires that an employer has a reasonable belief that they had grounds to dismiss, and that at the time the decision was made this belief was genuine, that the opinion was formed after a reasonable investigation and that dismissal was an appropriate sanction in the circumstances. If there were inadequacies in the original investigation or disciplinary process were these corrected on appeal with an investigation of all points raised by the employee during the appeal?

 

If an employer can demonstrate the above, then the ET decision will go in their favour. An investigation carried out by you after the fact might well raise doubts as to whether the decision was correct, but providing that the employer had the belief that they were correct at the time, then this does not matter. That is a point that is often lost on a claimant. You must set out to prove that the evidence available at the time of dismissal was not sufficient to dismiss.

 

The information and documents that you have MUST be directed towards proving that the employer was not entitled to dismiss and that they should reasonably have known this when they made the decision - so frame your cross examination around proving that the documents you mention WERE available and were not considered.

 

I also agree with Emmzzi - the ET will not be at all bothered about the respondent or their solicitor messing you around - it is about whether deadlines are met, the bundle prepared and agreed and the way that the case is presented. If documents have not been disclosed by the hearing then that should be a matter to raise on the day, emphasising why they were important to your case and what steps you took to ask for disclosure and any responses made by their solicitor. Only if the documents are absolutely central to your case should you be asking the Tribunal to intervene to force disclosure - and you would need to have a good reason for why they were not asked for originally.

[Bennyboy98]

Many thanks.

I wonder if you and others could offer advice on an e-mail I received from the Respondent today.

It was a letter sent to the ET today requesting that the hearing dates ( for 16th And 17th June) be vacated and re-listed.

She says that of the 3 witnesses that the Respondent intends to call, there are now substantial difficulties in 2 of the witnesses being able to attend the hearing.

She cites that one witness sustained a fall on the 6th March and there are doubts about being fit for the listed dates.

The second witness, has booked a holiday .

The solicitor states that the witnesses husband recently underwent " life saving surgery" and the holiday is to facilitate her husbands recovery and she forgot about the hearing dates due to " a lapse of concentration" and " severe emotional strain".

I intend to object, but would be grateful for thoughts and comments.

[honeybee13]

Hello Benny.

 

You've just posted the question you asked on Friday again. I've merged your threads and tidied up the duplicate.

 

HB

[Bennyboy98]

Sorry, thanks.

[honeybee13]

Benny, responding to your PM. My replying will bump your thread up the forum.

 

I know this is urgent for you and I have alerted the site team in case anyone can help. As it's Easter school holidays, it's a bit quieter than usual, but hopefully someone will see your thread later.

 

HB

[rebel11]

Hi Bennyboy98

 

As long as it doesn't sound unreasonable, the Tribunal will probably grant the vacating and re-listing of the Hearing. It could be a delaying tactic but you would need some proof to put before the Tribunal. You could ask the Tribunal that Respondents provide proof of the 'life saving surgery' but you run the risk of seeming unreasonable. If you've booked time off, you could point out that 'costs' are involved.

 

Many thanks.

I wonder if you and others could offer advice on an e-mail I received from the Respondent today.

It was a letter sent to the ET today requesting that the hearing dates ( for 16th And 17th June) be vacated and re-listed.

She says that of the 3 witnesses that the Respondent intends to call, there are now substantial difficulties in 2 of the witnesses being able to attend the hearing.

She cites that one witness sustained a fall on the 6th March and there are doubts about being fit for the listed dates.

The second witness, has booked a holiday .

The solicitor states that the witnesses husband recently underwent " life saving surgery" and the holiday is to facilitate her husbands recovery and she forgot about the hearing dates due to " a lapse of concentration" and " severe emotional strain".

I intend to object, but would be grateful for thoughts and comments.

[Bennyboy98]

Hello all.

I am in process of completing my witness statement with exchange with the respondent due on 9/5/14 and would welcome any advice.

 

How much information should I include in my statement? I was originally suspended in August 2012 , dismissed in June 2013 and my appeal was thrown out in September 2013.

My case is listed for June this year at the ET

As you can see this is quite along time.

Should I give a full chronological time frame of events and correspondence?

If so, should I also write about the evidence I have in my defense in the statement, or is it best to refer to the pages in the bundle for the ET to read themselves?

[becky2585]

Hi there!

 

First of all, you should set it out as a pleading with the case title and number and your witness statement as the title. The first line is usually along the lines of "I, (Name) of (address) will state as follows:"

 

You should set out your statement in chronological order using numbered paragraphs (and headings too if it makes it easier to read).

 

You need to include everything that is relevant, as the statement forms the basis of most of your evidence.

 

You should refer to documents in the bundle as appropriate by citing their page number for the panel to refer to.

 

You also should include a statement of truth and sign and date it.

[Sidewinder]

Exactly as Becky says.

 

The Tribunal Judge will not sit and read the evidence bundle. He will though read your Witness Statement. He will form his decision based on the case that you present, and the WS is the one opportunity that you have to say precisely what happened, when, and why this made your dismissal unfair. You include everything that is relevant to the case so that the Judge has a clear picture in his mind, told through your words, of what happened. The bundle is there to support what you say in your WS, so the statements should make it clear where the Judge can find the document which supports what you are saying - eg on 20th August 2012 I received a letter from Mr Smith (Page 57 of the bundle). The WS should lead the Judge towards your central point that based on what you have described, and supported by the evidence in the bundle that the employer dismissed you unfairly, so although you do not need to outline the precise legal points in your WS, you should understand what the law requires for the employer to have dismissed you fairly and precisely what they did (or did not do) which would make the decision to dismiss you unfair with regard to the law. Your WS should merely state the facts for the Judge, and you then use cross examination to hopefully prove your case. After hearing the evidence from both sides the Judge will give you the opportunity to say precisely why the Judge should find in your favour and why the evidence that he has heard is supported by any relevant case law or statute.

[Bennyboy98]

Hi all,

Just a quick note to let everyone know that perseverance and patience pays off.

Almost 2 years 1 month to the day since I was suspended and the dismissed my company has given in and settled.

Despite all the deceit, lies and delays they inflicted I won.

They took it right to the wire only conceding the day before the ET hearing.

It goes without saying how relieved I am. I can now start to rebuild my life and my health.

Thank you to CAG for advice proffered.

[steampowered]

Good news, well done! Time for a well deserved drink.

[citizenB]

Excellent news. It must have been a very stressful time for you.

 

I hope you can now get on with the rest of your life

[caro]

Congratulations benny. That must be a huge relief.