Car Parking Partnership, South London NHS Trust

[Bloke199]

Hi all,

 

My Wife works for the above NHS trust, and has to park in the general car park for all and sundry. The trust at the moment isn't issuing out staff parking permits, and so, consequently, received a 'Civil Parking Notice' from Car Parking Partnership, asking for a charge off £60, but can be reduced down to £30 if payed within 14 days.

 

I've read on varies threads, that she should either ignore it, or write a letter to the trust explaining the situation of how the charge was occurred. However, as she works there, she doesn't think this will be the only charge she will get.

 

If this carries on, could she end up with more problems if she becomes a 'repeat offender' ???

 

Any advice or guidance would be a great help.

 

Cheers muchly !!!!

 

Bloke199

[f16]

Bloke199, Welcome to CAG.

I assume this is a "windscreen" ticket not number plate capture.

If it is the former, wait for notice to keeper through the post, (29 -56 days)

Do not contact them and ID the driver.

Why are they not issuing permits ?

[Bloke199]

Hi f16,

 

Yes, this was a Yellow Sticky Plastic concealment with the parking charge inside it. Although my wife is prepared to wait the 29 - 56 days for the Notice to Keeper, she is a little worried about what may happen if she keeps getting these parking charges, after all, she does have to work there !!!!!

 

The trust was merged with Lewisham NHS trust, and so all administration, wages, medical courses, etc have all gone up in the air, and so, as a consequence, parking permits (for which a monthly charge is taken from her wages) are not being issued.

 

Many thanks for the quick reply.

 

Bloke199

[f16]

Bloke199

If money is deducted from her wages then permit or not she has paid and can prove it via wage slips.

Therefore NO loss incured to the land owner.

 

Let them "Crack on" issuing worthless bits of paper !!!!!

Other CAGGERS will advise .. but I think that is correct

Regards F16

[Bloke199]

Hi f16,

 

That's the problem, money isn't being deducted from wages, she was transfered to this hospital she is at now, and has a permit on display for the previous hospital, but that hasn't been deducted from wages since she moved, and as permits aren't being issued, she is effectively parking for free. I will add that this is a pay and display car park, and with all hospitals, charge an absolute fortune for the privilege of parking there all day.

 

if there is any other advice or assurances apart from that given by f16 which is much appreciated, we would like to hear it please.

 

Cheers again !!!

 

Bloke199

[ericsbrother]

there are acouple of people on this forum who have great experience of hospital parking and have won their cases and caused their employers to consider how they deal with such idiocy by the people they employ to run the parking for them. Look for a couple of threads that were hot at the end of last year for a hospital in Liverpool and East Kent and you will get a better idea of what to say to your employer if they dont knock it on the head.

[Bloke199]

Hi Ericsbrother, (are you really his brother ??),

 

I've spoken to my wife about the situation with regards to the permits, and she said in a telephone call she had with the department dealing with the permits, that no permits were being issued until further notice. I asked my wife to mention to them to either write it down on a bit of headed note paper or send in an email to her NHS email address, and see where this may go.

 

Just as a side note, if it is decided that the trust is not issuing any further permits and that she should have to pay the daily parking fee, could this be a case of unfair rules or something or other, where someone who has a permit only has to pay x amount a month to park in the same car park as my wife, who may have to pay 10 times the amount ???

 

I have read the threads about the East Kent and Aintree cases being lost, but not sure if this would be the same sort of scenario.

 

Thanks for the replies so far, and any further input would be appreciated.

 

Bloke199

[Bloke199]

Just an update,

 

My wife has already received an email from the parking permit department stating that no further permits will be issued until further notice to her NHS email, so should we just wait for the Notice to Keeper letter, or should we just appeal against it now ???

 

Cheers muchly,

 

Bloke199

[JoeyJoeC]

Wait for the notice to keeper. Appeal the ticket, and demand a POPLA code. If the appeal is rejected, appeal to POPLA.

[esmerobbo]

Doing a little digging South London NHS trust no longer exists, CPP is normally a back office set up, the tickets are issued by someone on site and the info sent to CPP.

 

Who are CPP saying they are representing?

[Dublindel]

Write to them and ask for a copy of the agreement with the Hospital.

 

Ask them to justify the charge of £60 as a pre estimate of loss and also ask them why if you have cost them £60, why they only want half back and will take a loss of £30. Then come back here when you have a reply

[Bloke199]

Doing a little digging South London NHS trust no longer exists, CPP is normally a back office set up, the tickets are issued by someone on site and the info sent to CPP.

 

Who are CPP saying they are representing?

 

Hi Esmerobbo,

 

South London NHS merged with Lewisham NHS under a government move when South London went bust, the trust is now called Lewisham and Greenwich.

 

The parking charge has the following on it:

 

Car Parking Partnership

 

Notice No. CPxxxxxxxx

 

Civil Parking Notice

 

Notice of breach of parking conditions at:

 

Queen Elizabeth Hospital Woolwich, Issued By The Car Parking Partnership

 

Description of car registration, model, location (QEH - Car Park 1), time and date, car park attendant No, and reason (no valid ticket or permit displayed) and details of charge and how to pay.

 

The ticket doesn't actually state who it is representing, but having a large stab in the dark, the NHS trust my wife works for !!!!

 

Hi Deublindel,

 

We will consider that option as well, is there a template letter anywhere, or a link to something that we can adjust for our own circumstance ??

 

Cheers everyone so far for you help and input.

 

Bloke199

[Dublindel]

I can re work mine to suit you but what i have put is the basic and solid argument, don't waste time with mitigation. I have dealt with CPP several times and they will allow this to go to POPLA even though it's a lost cause for them. It's the Lemmings syndrome

[ericsbrother]

Bloke, you ask if it the same scenario as the other 2 cases. I would say yes because it is about supremacy of contract, namely her terms of employment trumps the parking peoples claims because she can be classed as an "occupier" of the land UNLESS her contract of employment forbids parking or has special terms actually written in to it.

Again, the points of authority by whom are important because the trust and the parking co may think that the contract runs on but that does not mean that they have any authority to claim that, they should have proof of contract and that would mean a new one as the parking co has no rights to claim continuity.

[Bloke199]

Hi Dublindel,

 

If you wouldn't mind doing that for us, it would be really really appreciated !!!!

 

Hi Ericsbrother,

 

We will consider this judgement when it comes to her appeal, I didn't quite understand the full details until you explained matter of factly !!!! She certainly hasn't had a change of work contract since she started working for the previous trust, and since some staff still have parking permits for staff parking, then she should be considered an 'occupier', along with all other NHS staff.

 

Thanks so far to everyone for their help and input, I will be making a small donation to this fantastic website.

 

Bloke199

[Dublindel]

Dear Sirs,

 

Mitigation is not accepted by PPC or the Appeals Body so I will not pursue that avenue.

 

Please supply a copy of your full signed contract with the Landowner.

 

Please supply a full breakdown of your pre-estimate of loss of £60. Failure to supply will result in your case failing at POPLA. Also, using business costs will also result in a fail as they are not related directly to the alleged breach.

 

Please explain why your pre-estimate of loss appears to be constant despite the different possible breaches that might occur during operating hours.

 

Please explain why you have lost £60 but are prepared to only recover £30. This currently has the appearance of being a penalty and unlawful under Unfair Contract Terms 1999, also against BPA CoP, and the requirements of POFA 2012.

 

Please supply photographic evidence, time stamped at first spotted and ticket issue times

 

I am however, prepared without prejudice, to offer the time lapse payment for the car park to cover the parking time of XX minutes which will be paid by cheque or at the car park office office on my next visit within 28 days should you agree.

 

I would suggest that its best that we close this matter now as continuance will result in a

chargeable loss to you from POPLA and negativity in published statistics.

 

Please take your time considering this matter, you have 35 days from the date of receipt as acknowledged by the date of signature you gave to Royal Mail Tracking.

 

TRACKING NUMBER (if recorded)

 

 

Many Thanks

[JoeyJoeC]

paid by cheque or at the car park office office on my next visit within 28 days should you agree.

 

Just to point out the typo there.

[Dublindel]

Thanks. Otherwise it will do the trick. That does not mean tho that they won't take you to POPLA. But you will win there.

[ericsbrother]

So, if they reject your appeal and give yopu a POPLA code make sure you ask for a copy of the contract dated AFTER the reforming of the NHS trust. One dated prior to that is not lawful. They will have to supply it or risk losing by default but if they send it in late make sure you ask POPLA time to read and comment upon it.

[Bloke199]

Hi everyone,

 

Just an update, my wife has spoken to her line manager, who also is a local JP, he's also received a couple of these invoices, and has ignored them, and stated as we have an email from the trust stating that no further permits will be issued, if it ever got as far as a small claims court, this should make the claim get thrown out.

 

Many thanks for all the replies, we have kept a link to this thread, and noted down all the information and advice that has been given, and made a £10 donation to the site (£10 more than Car Parking Partnership were ever to receive).

 

If we hear anymore, we'll let you know.

 

Bloke199