HMRC want paying for WTC joint claim - my wife forged my sig?

[mikeymack2002]

You should have reported this incident to the Police at the very first opportunity and had this dealt with by now. If as you claim you did not sign the declaration and this is/was a fraud then make an historic complaint to the Police.

 

 

They will investigate and if need be prosecute the offender, if this happens then you simply reclaim your money that was taken/given in the first place..

 

 

A word of warning reporting a crime to the Police which you know to be false is an offence... 18 months and still nowhere gained. Even now you can still report it...

[chiefmegawatty]

Thanks for the replies.

 

 

today I received a reply from Action Fraud regarding this issue as shown below.

 

 

I am also awaiting a complaints form from HMRC.

HMRC asked me to point out their website page when I fill out the form.

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

Thank you for your email to Action Fraud.

 

The use of another person‘s identification details (or the use of false identification details),

often referred to as identity theft, is not in itself an offence in law.

its the action that is undertaken, using those identification details,

that becomes the crime that needs to be considered in respect of whether an offence has occurred.

 

Most instances of identity theft come to light when the use of someone else’s personal details

are used to fraudulently obtain goods such as mobile phone contracts, or in this case a tax credit.

The first that the person knows about this is when they receive documentation for something they have no knowledge.

 

Action Fraud are required to apply the Home Office Counting Rules for recorded crime (HOCR),

which is a victim based recording system.

 

 

In these circumstances the victim of the fraud is the HMRC and not the person who’s identity has been stolen.

 

 

Action Fraud try to explain this and have taken an Information Report from you that captures all the information

and intelligence about what has occurred and this is passed to the National Fraud Intelligence Bureau (NFIB)

which is run by the City of London Police.

 

 

Updates are not provided for Information Reports and you were notified of this when you made the report.

 

The NFIB have determined that there is not enough intelligence information to progress the case further.

 

 

From the details provided, your identity has been used to enable a fraud against HMRC,

it is therefore a matter for HMRC to investigate.

 

 

The report will be kept within the intelligence system at the NFIB where it will be regularly matched

and assessed against other reports to help boost wider crime investigations,

building a more complete national picture of fraud.

 

 

The data you have provided may link to another crime

 

Regards,

 

 

Information Hub Team

[ericsbrother]

in other words they have ticked a box and will now forget all about it.

[chiefmegawatty]

in other words they have ticked a box and will now forget all about it.

 

Yes indeed. However, the Police seem to be implying that if you know about a crime only report it if you are a victim, otherwise your evidence will be ignored. To make things even more confusing, it was HMRC who told me to report this to the Police in the first place !

When HMRC insisted that I pay them after I informed them I had never signed the application form, maybe HMRC are guilty of fraud against me.

 

Alternatively, perhaps HMRC and the Police are in co-operation to extort money from innocent people while they let known guilty people off.

 

Maybe I should have flatly refused to pay HMRC and wait until they took me to court.

I would have turned up in court with my copy of the application form clearly showing that my

signature had been forged. I would have also taken my driving licence that shows my real signature.

 

Despite what Action Fraud said, I do consider myself to be an innocent victim.

I will continue to fight HMRC for my money back, but I won't be holding my breath.

I think I was stupid to pay them as I suspect I had a rock solid case.

However, it will be interesting to see what happens when I submit my complaint form to

HMRC.

[chiefmegawatty]

I have discovered that the WTC money all went into my wife's bank account without my knowledge.

However, when I pointed this out to HMRC they said it made no difference which bank account it went into.

Therefore summing up, I have come to the following conclusions:

 

1. If you have never signed up for something, the law considers that's equivalent to signing.

 

2. If you have never received any money for something you never applied for, the law consideres you to be guilty for something you have never received or applied for.

 

3. Anyone can now be prosecuted for anything they know nothing about and have never signed for.

 

4. Any signature on any legal document is worthless.

 

 

[blondebubbles]

The bank account argument is irrelevant to them. Many genuine joint claims have money paid to one person's account. It doesn't mean the other person is entitled to the money or that they aren't equally liable for it.

 

Your argument should be based on the forged signature. The bank account issue would only help to show you were not aware your ex was claiming.

[mikeymack2002]

Going around in circles will help you not. Either approach the Police to make a statement and follow this through or if further fraud is discovered you will be right back to square one.

 

Furthermore are there any other live claims for ANY type of benefits? I would contact all agencies to find this out. Of you fail to do so you could be in a whole world of pain...

 

Sorry for being blunt but but common sense would state the obvious to you...

[chiefmegawatty]

Thanks to all for your helpful comments.

Anyway, two weeks ago I completed the HMRC complaints form and posted it back.

I gave them the link to their website that states that both claimants must sign in order for the

claim to be a joint claim.

I have asked for my money back and asked them to chase my absent wife for the money.

I await their reply.

[mikeymack2002]

With your last response you still have not reported this to the Police then?

[chiefmegawatty]

I reported this to the Police back in 2012 on the advice of HMRC.

 

HMRC asked me to send them the Police crime reference number which I did.

 

A few weeks later I received a call from the Police.

 

They said they don't deal with cases of this type because HMRC have their own department to deal with tax fraud cases.

 

Therefore HMRC tell me to report it to the Police, then the Police tell me to report it to HMRC.

 

I am of the impression I'm being messed around by two incompetent Government departments.

[chiefmegawatty]

I submitted an official complaint to HMRC on 14/09/2015 and I received a reply today.

 

They say that I have failed to provide any new information to support my complaint.

 

I don't know what they mean by "new information".

They have several examples of my genuine signature from the many letters I have written regarding this issue

, and they have the original WTC application form with the clearly forged signature.

I would have thought that was enough information and evidence to support my claim.

 

HMRC have not commented on my pointing out their web page that states both applicants must sign for the application to be a joint claim.

 

HMRC also say that they won't reply to any further correspondence from myself regarding this issue.

[chiefmegawatty]

I am an honest person who has never tried to obtain money or goods by deception or fraud.

 

However, I now realise that honesty doesn't work under British law.

 

Sadly I have to assume that obtaining money by deception using a forged signature will only

result in action against the victim, even if the victim can easily prove that his signature has been forged.

 

I think this issue opens a huge legal can of worms.

 

In other parts of this website regarding debt there is legal advice regarding signing a CCA agreement.

 

The advice seemed logical to me,

however, HMRC and the Police have now implied that a forged signature is legally equally as valid as a genune signature.

 

Therefore what's the point of signing anything now the law has decided that a genuine signature is worth nothing?

[jadewhite]

Has this issue been resolved?

My partner has just found out that his EX has done the same to him. She has forged his signature and lied about their earning, therefore fraudulently claiming WTC for 6 years. He only found this out today when he received a letter asking for overpaid money. She has always earned way above the threshold , so I am concerned that he may accused of alongside her. Tomorrow he will ring HMRC and find out the extent of this. He will be honest about his past earnings and they will immediately realise that the credits have been claimed illegally. We am so worried about the consequences of this and would be interested to find out what the outcome of your story is.

[fnaomi]

Hello,

 

 

i was just wondering is any one who previously had a problem signature being forged to make joint claims, had any news back?

we have found out that my husbands ex partner has been claiming and forged his signature to do so.

 

we found out as she had been over paid and they are now asking him to pay the rest. we had copies of the form sent back and his signature has clearly been forged. we reported it to the police who even came out to the house and saw for themselves how bad of a copy his signature it was. they told us to report it action fraud and gave us a crime reference.

 

long story short we have been back and forth with HMRC who don't really care and just want their money back.

action fraud dont want anything to do with it as its for the HMRC to deal with it.

 

anyone have any advice on what do to next? or any news on how your similar situations ended?

[dx100uk]

threads 3 yrs old now and has just been bumped annually by newbies

 

 

always best to start a new thread

of your own.

 

 

thread closed to stop bumping