123-reg changed terms of service

[cobalagi]

123-reg are domain registrars.

They have introduced a new charge to transfer .uk domains away.

This contradicts previous terms and very visible statements on their web site.

They have given no notice of the change in terms.

I want to transfer to a new registrar, and have asked them to waive the charge as it was not part of my agreement when I paid for domains there.

But they are refusing to waive it pointing to a clause (that probably was in effect) that basically says they can do what they want when they want:

 

123-reg reserves the right to change, add, subtract or in way alter these Conditions without the prior consent of the Client

Rather than me trying to explain it all in further detail maybe simplest if I point you to this web page where they explain it very well.

 

http://www.mayne.net/123reg-domain-name-hostage/

 

some people on there have had success, but 123-reg are still refusing to allow me to transfer away free.

 

What are my legal options and levers here please?

[renegadeimp]

Except you signed under a different contract and were not given notice in advance so you could migrate away.

[cobalagi]

Except you signed under a different contract and were not given notice in advance so you could migrate away.

 

well yes we agree on that. (I think)

 

However, as I said, as I have put those points to them and they are still refusing to allow the original terms (ie: free transfer away) to stand, claiming they have right to change terms "without the prior consent of the Client"

 

So I ask again:

What are my legal options and levers here please - to get them to honour the original agreement?

[renegadeimp]

They can indeed change the terms without prior consent, but they should let you have the chance of moving away from that registrar if you decide you don't agree with the terms.

[cobalagi]

I thank you again for your input

but they should let you have the chance of moving away from that registrar

and again I agree with you, but they dont agree. In fact they completely disagree.

I have explained the obvious points several times via email.

Still they are refusing.

 

So it seems I must ask again:

What are my legal options and levers here please?

[renegadeimp]

Ask them to elaborate on the reasons, but ensure you make it a FULL complaint. That way they are forced to deal with it within 8 weeks, or the regulators will decide for them.

[cobalagi]

thank you again for reply

I have some questions:

what constitutes a 'FULL' complaint?

why do they have 8 weeks? what governs that time period?

which is the regulator that will decide? and how do I invoke that regulator?

[renegadeimp]

A Full complaint is a letter sent via their complaints resolution procedure. You outline concisely the problem, questions you have and what you would like to see as a resolution to your complaint.

 

They then have 8 weeks ( 56 days ) to resolve your complaint in full in the form of a Final Response. If you do not amicably resolve the complaint in that time, then whichever comes first out of the 56 days or final response, you escalate the Complaint to the regulators, who will have an adjudicator investigate and cake a response. If you do not agree with the adjudicator, you can escalate further to the ombudsman.

 

In response to your other questions, lets not get too far ahead right now. You need to get a formal complaint in writing to the CEO, and send it by recorded delivery. As soon as you post that letter, the 8 week timer starts ticking. Sadly, it isnt a fast answer to your problem, but it will show 123-reg that you arent going to be taken for a fool and you know your rights.

[cobalagi]

as far as I know the regulator with a UK domain is Nominet - But I'm not sure, do you agree?

If so, as far as I know Nominet have no opinion on whether or not the registar wants to charge a fee to transfer away.

Thats down to the the agreement between registrar and client.

They are saying they are within their rights. I dont agree.

The issue here is whether they have a legal right to change that agreement as they have done. And it seems to me that in order to compose a FULL complaint I have to understand that position - which I dont.

And with the greatest respect your responses are doing little to help.

Can you please be specific about the legal position re the contract.

 

and what/why is the 8 week period you mention please? What governs that?

 

and who is the ombudsman here?

 

thank you

[renegadeimp]

It's nominet.

 

http://www.nominet.org.uk/disputes/complaining-about-registrar

http://www.nominet.org.uk/disputes/complaining-about-registrar/complaints-procedure

[cobalagi]

yes, thank you for those. altho I did know where they were I thank you for pointing them out.

 

But as to my original question:

What are my legal options and levers here please?

it still remains unanswered

I will be grateful for any input specific to that.

 

for example this:

123-reg reserves the right to change, add, subtract or in way alter these Conditions without the prior consent of the Client

 

can such a clause be included in a contract in UK consumer law?

[renegadeimp]

Possible breach of contract on their part? The fact that they are basically holding your domain to ransom? That cause can be added, however, as i mentioned before, they should give you a chance to opt out of the agreement if you decide not to continue with it. Otherwise you could buy a 2 year registration, then a month later, they say they are putting prices up, or in your case, adding on various spurious charges for transferring domains.

 

You signed up to a contract that did not have any charges for transferring away. Now theyre trying to force them on you. Thats why im with godaddy and another american host for my sites. I cant be bothered dealing with all the third rate Hosts in the UK anymore.

[silverfox1961]

While having absolutely no clue as to what domains and the like are, this smacks of an unfair contract and as such you could cite the UTCCR at them.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?421863-Guidance-The-Taking-Control-of-Goods-Regulations-2014-Statutory-Notices

[cobalagi]

Hi silverox1961

thanks for reply

this smacks of an unfair contract and as such you could cite the UTCCR at them

a 'domain' in this context is a domain name such as consumeractiongroup.co.uk

'domains' are generally not 'owned' they are 'rented' from a national or global controlling body via a registrar.

whilst I do think what they've done creates an unfair contract I dont think that UTCCR thing is really applicable.

I have still control, its just they recently changed terms and conditions without notice meaning I have to pay to move to another registrar. Thus holding me ransom - which I think is probably kinda not illegal in this context ... maybe ... As long as thats what they said when we agreed terms. Which it wasnt.

 

I think my question hangs on whether they can change terms without notice, given this clause is in the existing t&c's

123-reg reserves the right to change, add, subtract or in way alter these Conditions without the prior consent of the Client

 

and can such a clause be included in a contract in UK consumer law?

 

[this forum has a very annoying habit of just dumping carefully crafted replies claiming user is not logged in]

[renegadeimp]

As already said. They CAN add that clause, but they must allow you to opt out if you decline the change.

[Hammy1962]

Don't expect any succses with a complaint against 123-reg.

 

Con artists and cheats.

 

H

[cobalagi]

As already said

If you've already said it why repeat yourself?

 

and so if we're repeating please let me repeat my question (again):

What are my legal options and levers here please?

With the greatest of respect renegadeimp you have managed to make a load of posts in this thread without actually coming anywhere near answering the question. I notice you have almost 16000 posts on here. Are they all equally useless?

 

It might be better if you dont know - just say you dont know, or say nothing.

[cobalagi]

Don't expect any succses with a complaint against 123-reg.

 

Con artists and cheats.

 

H

con artists and cheats - yes I couldnt agree more

But I'm sure enough they are in the wrong and I will get success.

Just trying to understand the technicalities

[renegadeimp]

If you've already said it why repeat yourself?

 

and so if we're repeating please let me repeat my question (again):

 

With the greatest of respect renegadeimp you have managed to make a load of posts in this thread without actually coming anywhere near answering the question. I notice you have almost 16000 posts on here. Are they all equally useless?

 

It might be better if you dont know - just say you dont know, or say nothing.

 

I think it might be better if you stop the personal attacks. Your argument lies within the unfair contracts. But you seem to completely gloss over that.

 

You have been given info on UTCCR but you say its not applicable. It IS applicable because it is clearly an unfair contract as they havent allowed you to opt out. If you aren't willing to listen to advice via a site team member who is very knowledgeable about unfair contracts, then theres little point continuing the thread.

[Hammy1962]

con artists and cheats - yes I couldnt agree more

But I'm sure enough they are in the wrong and I will get success.

Just trying to understand the technicalities

 

To be sure isn't enough. If it's in the t's&c's you don't stand a chance. As I said. Con artists and cheats.

 

H

[f16]

If you've already said it why repeat yourself?

 

and so if we're repeating please let me repeat my question (again):

 

With the greatest of respect renegadeimp you have managed to make a load of posts in this thread without actually coming anywhere near answering the question. I notice you have almost 16000 posts on here. Are they all equally useless?

 

It might be better if you dont know - just say you dont know, or say nothing.

 

With all due respect . That post was uncalled for to put it "mildly".

 

Renegadeimp's advice appears to be correct. If you want to alter a contract,you have to offer the option of not "Accepting" the new contract and opting out.

[cobalagi]

With all due respect . That post was uncalled for to put it "mildly".

speaking personally I dont think it was.

I pointed out the specifics of my questions several times and asked renegadeimp again and again to address it specifically - which he/she didnt, at least not in manner that I as a lay person could grasp.

 

Renegadeimp's advice appears to be correct. If you want to alter a contract,you have to offer the option of not "Accepting" the new contract and opting out.

I agree with that.

However I posted here because the provider does not agree. Therefore I wanted to understand on what legal basis I can address their reluctance.

renegadeimp continued to respond with unspecific vagaries, which appeared to me to indicate that he wanted to try to find a solution without actually knowing what that solution was. I thanked him several times for his input, but as noble and generous as his input was I felt it became increasingly unhelpful - so I said so.

Edited April 7, 2014 by cobalagi

[cobalagi]

I think it might be better if you stop the personal attacks. Your argument lies within the unfair contracts. But you seem to completely gloss over that.

 

You have been given info on UTCCR but you say its not applicable. It IS applicable because it is clearly an unfair contract as they havent allowed you to opt out. If you aren't willing to listen to advice via a site team member who is very knowledgeable about unfair contracts, then theres little point continuing the thread.

 

I read the page on the UTCCR which silverfox1961 kindly pointed me at.

It appears to me that it relates to 'goods' and the seizing of 'goods' rather than services, which in my humble opinion is what I think I am dealing with. Thats why I said I didnt think it was applicable.

If you understand why it's applicable in my case would you please be so kind as to explain that to me.

Or if you have other specific information which you think might be applicable I will be very grateful for your input.

Otherwise I thank you for your input so far but I agree with you that there is little point in you continuing in the thread.

[cobalagi]

To be sure isn't enough. If it's in the t's&c's you don't stand a chance

thanks Hammy - but they've had a change of heart this morning and agreed to let me go foc

 

As I said. Con artists and cheats.

H

at least I agree with somebody here