Cafcass and grandparents rights

[Desperate Daniella]

ss,

 

I absolutely defer to your experience and better knowledge than I have of these situations.

 

However, staci has made it clear that she would consider moving many miles away, and also that there is no hope of any kind of family relationship with this woman. She says if she sees her in the street between contact visits she will not allow the little boy anywhere near her.

 

We don't know what evidence there is of her abusive behaviour. As you say, staci and her bf will be able to call witnesses.

 

I don't in any way mean to give staci false hope.

 

What I find very surprising in this situation is the conduct of the grandmother. If I were in her situation and desperately wanted to see my new grandson I would have tried first to mend my relationship with my son. I would have apologized for throwing him out of his home when he was 13 and begged for forgiveness. I would have tried to build a relationship with him first and then if that could be established I would have asked to see the new baby. I wouldn't have started by demanding my rights to see the baby and the involving Cafcass.

[sailor sam]

I'm basically with you all the way DD... but that is exactly what I tried myself and was continuously knocked back by my ex and her family. I cant help detecting "more to this than meets the eye" kind of scenario and we have to remember that CAFCASS have produced a favourable report in respect of the grand mother. It is not easy to pull the wool over these people's eyes so you have to wonder why the report supports the application. In any event, the CAFCASS report is crucial to the outcome of the case, especially as there appears to be no other evidence. However, the CAFCASS reporter can be asked to attend the court to answer any further questions. They don't normally attend a directions hearing unless requested by the court but they will almost certainly attend a contested hearing.

 

As I have previously said, moving away will not stop an order being made or being enforced. However, as the order will most likely be worded "to make the child available for contact", that dosn't compel the Father to "deliver" the child to the applicant. My only concern there would be that due to the child's age, it is most likely that a supervised order will be made and that will (by de-fault) mean that the Father will be expected to take the child to the contact venue.

 

I think it maybe useful if the Father does get some free advice (if possible today) from a family solicitor. Most will give an initial free appointment but my money would be on the fact that they will confirm what I have said.

[staci]

My partner wouldn't be prepared to take our son as to him he doesn't have a mother and hasn't for years. If need be I would rather drag it out as long as possible so it's less time she's having with our son.

You mention a court clerk... At the last hearing her solicitor asked for the hearing to be transferred upstairs which was in front of a clerk and three judges. What do you think will happen tomorrow?

[staci]

If she wins the case do we have to pay any money?

[Desperate Daniella]

What did he mean by "upstairs"? Is there a County Court in the same building?

 

I don't think you'll have to pay her anything.

 

If I were you I'd say I'd only just received a copy of the CAFCASS report and having read it you wish to seek legal advice and request an adjournment, but let's see what ss thinks.

[staci]

No it's in magistrates but we were waiting in the waiting room and her solicitor came over and said that there was no one down here to be able to grant permission for her so she was moving it upstairs. That's when we went in front of judges

[sailor sam]

They are not judges, they are magistrates. To have it heard by a judge, the case would need to be transferred to the county court. In the OP's position, this would not do them any favours although it would favour the applicant if the case becomes complex. Has the OP attempted to seek a solicitor who would give a free initial consultation?

[staci]

We have tried to contact but there is a 2 week wait.

[Desperate Daniella]

Then, if you wish, you could ask for an adjournment as you wish to seek legal advice and have been unable to arrange this since you received the report only last Thursday.

 

What do you think, ss?

[sailor sam]

Unfortunately you will have to 'go with the flow' tomorrow then. I can only suggest what I've already suggested which I know isn't what you want to do. But if you get in there first with some kind of compromise, at least you have a chance of keeping some control over the situation. The applicant is seeking quite a lot of contact it seems but given the child's age, i'm sure that the court will most likely agree to supervised contact on a less frequent basis.

 

I would expect the applicant's solicitor will approach the Father prior to the hearing to test the water with him and see if there is any movement in his stance. He would be best advised not to say no to any contact at all because the court will see that as being unreasonable and more than likely make an order not to your liking anyway.

 

I know this sin't what you want to hear but at least I have fore-warned you of what to expect. I don't see (from what you have posted) that you have a valid reason for point blank refusing contact, especially as there is nothing on record to suggest that the applicant poses a threat to the child either emotionally or physically.

[sailor sam]

Then, if you wish, you could ask for an adjournment as you wish to seek legal advice and have been unable to arrange this since you received the report only last Thursday.

 

What do you think, ss?

 

Well yes, you could do that but if the other side knows that the Father isn't in a position to get legal representation or legal funding, they may put an argument forward that an adjournment would be non-productive and thus a waste of time. The respondent (Father) would of been advised to seek legal advice in the original application documents so it could be argued he was "trying to close the stable door after the horse has bolted" and simply playing a delay tactic. But who knows... it maybe granted but then what does this change? I would almost guarantee that a decent solicitor will simply echo what I have said although I suppose hearing it face to face would better qualify what is what.

[Desperate Daniella]

The Father has only just heard that he is in a position to get legal representation. They didn't think they could afford to pay for it, and they didn't know about Law Works who will try to find them a pro bono solicitor - and they are usually pretty good at doing this. If the applicant has a solicitor and they don't they are clearly at a disadvantage.

 

He may well echo what you have said but he may also be able to challenge assumptions made in the CAFCASS report if they are inaccurate.

 

You are clearly more than capable of putting your case in court (Gold Medal Winner ) but not everyone is. Staci and her bf may be more confident about being represented by a solicitor, rather than representing themselves.

[sailor sam]

I'm sorry DD, but you have lost me now. How has the "Father has only just heard that he is in a position to get legal representation"? A free consultation with a solicitor isn't really "legal representation". One side not having a solicitor dosn't necessarily mean that they are disadvantaged by the side which has a solicitor. In my last case (as the respondent) I represented myself while my ex partner had legal representation. I successfully had her application thrown out.

 

It has nothing to do with being 'disadvantaged', the court will no doubt assist the respondent (if they are un-represented) where necessary and will understand that they are totally un-familiar with the process. The court's sole objective is to make a decision purely on the facts presented to it and that fair play is offered to both parties.

[Desperate Daniella]

They didn't previously know about Law Works. Law Works will provide a solicitor free of charge to represent them properly, not just a free consultation. It will depend obviously if they have someone in the area where they live. A lot of top barristers also provide pro bono representation through Law Works though the majority of those will be in London or large cities.

 

You can fight a solicitor, and I have also done so successfully myself, but a lot of people really do go to pieces if they are in court and become overwhelmed and tongue-tied.

[Desperate Daniella]

I'm not suggesting staci needs a top barrister of course.

 

That is just information for anyone who might read this thread.

[sailor sam]

Well as I've pointed out many times on the thread, the Father's argument needs to have some substance to convince the court not to make an order. So far, I haven't seen anything that will do the trick with or without a solicitor i'm afraid. I think I've contributed as far as I can and I am sorry that I cannot provide any good news for the OP. But I would be interested in what happens and would be happy to advise further if necessary.

[Desperate Daniella]

Of course there may well be personal details that staci isn't sharing here which might have, or could have, a bearing on the decision.

[staci]

There isnt anything logged with police etc against his mum, but if there is anything you need to know i am willing to share.

[staci]

We have been listed for a hearing second week in May for three hours. We need to prepare a written statement to be sent for 1st may,this is in response to carcass statement.

Can anyone help me in doing this?

[sailor sam]

We have been listed for a hearing second week in May for three hours. We need to prepare a written statement to be sent for 1st may,this is in response to carcass statement.

Can anyone help me in doing this?

 

Exactly what I predicted would happen.

 

These links may help you;

 

http://www.alternativefamilylaw.co.uk/en/children/

 

http://www.separateddads.co.uk/how-write-your-statement-for-court.html

 

Obviously I cannot tell you what to put in your statement as I haven't seen the CAFCASS report (it's confidential anyway). But all I can advise is to stick to the facts, keep it brief as possible (don't 'waffle') and number each point/paragraph so it can be easily referred to in court.

 

When the statements have been filed, you should get a copy of the applicant's statement prior to the hearing and vice-versa.

[Desperate Daniella]

Of course we will help you.

 

You will need to answer each numbered paragraph of the CAFCASS report.

 

They say xxx happened .... And you state something like: This is not what happened, xxx happened.

 

If they something is right for your son and you disagree you should say so and give reasons why.

 

If they say there is any risk to him at all, say that you note that they say xxx could be a risk and you are equally concerned about this.

 

Bring in any references to her abusive behaviour where you think it is appropriate.

 

You can post as much detail as you like here, or as little as you want to but nothing that is really confidential.

 

DD

[staci]

It's so difficult to figure out how it is in our sons best interest even though we know it is!

[staci]

Does anyone know how much a solicitor costs?

[Desperate Daniella]

It's so difficult to figure out how it is in our sons best interest even though we know it is!

 

Do you now mean this, or do you mean you know it isn't?

 

If you think it is in his best interests you should go for the least possible supervised contact.

[Desperate Daniella]

Does anyone know how much a solicitor costs?

 

It depends where you are to a certain extent, but you should be able to get a half-hour free consultation before you decide if one can help you.