Answer following a part 31.14 - HELP

[johnboyflash]

Hi,

 

I have an action with Lloyds over a Mastercard.

 

I wrote to them after talking with a claims company as i had been in the past charged for PPI. Lloyds response was that they no longer had a copy of the agreement as it was taken out in 2000.

 

i followed some of the letters on this site and in late 2012 after just no responce at all i stopped payments.

 

Lloyds after taking their time have now issued proceedings. they have stated to the Court that they have no requirement to produce a true copy of the CCA following the Carey v HSBC bank plc (2009) EWHC 3417 (QB).

 

It would appear to me that i am now stuffed in two respects.

1. I cant prove they did charge PPI for the first 5 years (i never signed an agreement when i took the card out it was done in a branch and i was informed a few days later i had a card on the way. Lloyds maintain they did have my signature on the agreement agreeing to PPI).

2. without the proof they have no signed agreement i have no defense against the Court claim.

 

can anyone help as we are now in play so to speak.

 

thanks,

[citizenB]

You are indeed in a pickle.. However,

 

LTSB say they DO NOT have a copy of the agreement.. but then claim that they can confirm that you signed an agreement for PPI ? How can they confirm this without a copy of the agreement ? So they are equally stuffed, dont you think ?

 

Has the claim on recently been issued - if so, have a read of the following and provide the information requested, here on your thread and I will try and find someone who might be able to help

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.

[steampowered]

Can you get statements? Presumably these would show whether or not PPI was charged.

[johnboyflash]

Hi there,

 

Wish I could but they relate to 2000 to 2005 and I threw them out long ago. lloyds don't argue they charged it they argue I agreed it in the CCA.

 

So as long as they "hide" the agreement I am snookered as i cant prove a negative.

 

if this is right that they don't need to keep copies of CCA's anymore then Lloyds just say well it was on there and I cant prove it was not.

 

Personally I am amazed that they can be allowed to not keep copies as copies stop this....

 

thanks

[dx100uk]

SAR to Lloyds

 

had 5 back from them all went well beyond 2005

2 right back to the 1990's

 

dx

[citizenB]

johnboyflash, I have copied the information you provided below. This will help others to advise.

 

 

Name of the Claimant ?

Lloyds Bank Plc Not LTSB

 

Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to.

Originally issued September 2013. I entered a defense saying there is no agreement. Lloyds did not respond and were struck out in November 2013.

 

The first i knew of this was last week when i had a letter from Lloyds about the case for hearing on the 3rd April 2014. I called the Court and they said yes that was right as Lloyds have got an application to set aside and hearing for judgement on the 3rd April 2014. apparently it was all done internally in the Court without reference to me at all.

 

 

Date of issue XX + 19 days ( 5 day for service + 14 days to acknowledge) = XX + 14 days to submit defence = XX (33 days in total)

 

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? Please type out their particulars of claim (verbatim) less any identifiable data and round the amounts up/down.

 

Non payment of a credit card regulated under the CCA 1974

 

What is the value of the claim?

 

Originally £8,500 now over £10,000

 

Has the claimant included section 69 interest (8%)within the total claim or is it shown separate within the Particulars but not added to the debt?

 

 

Is the claim for a current or credit/loan account or mobile phone account?

Mastercard

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after 2007?

Yes 2000

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim.

Original

 

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?

N/A

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor?

Not sure

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ?

No

 

Why did you cease payments:-

I spoke with a PPI claims firm and the net result was lloyds said I had signed accepting PPI. I wrote asking for original copy and was then told we don't have one. I wrote saying produce the agreement or i will stop paying and was told i was obliged to pay regardless of the fact they no longer have an agreement.

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved?

yes, I deny I signed an agreement or accepted PPI

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan?

No

 

 

[theoldrouge]

johnboyflash, I have copied the information you provided below. This will help others to advise.

As regards the paperwork have you ever sent a s78request and did you receive a compliant reply?

[Alloyz1]

Hi,

 

I have an action with Lloyds over a Mastercard.

 

I wrote to them after talking with a claims company as i had been in the past charged for PPI. Lloyds response was that they no longer had a copy of the agreement as it was taken out in 2000.

 

i followed some of the letters on this site and in late 2012 after just no responce at all i stopped payments.

 

Lloyds after taking their time have now issued proceedings. they have stated to the Court that they have no requirement to produce a true copy of the CCA following the Carey v HSBC bank plc (2009) EWHC 3417 (QB). If the interest rate has varied from initially taking out the card, they need to produce the original agreement (see below)

 

It would appear to me that i am now stuffed in two respects.

1. I cant prove they did charge PPI for the first 5 years (i never signed an agreement when i took the card out it was done in a branch and i was informed a few days later i had a card on the way. Lloyds maintain they did have my signature on the agreement agreeing to PPI).

2. without the proof they have no signed agreement i have no defense against the Court claim.

 

can anyone help as we are now in play so to speak.

 

thanks,

 

However, regardless of the position of either party in court, Judge Waksman is clear about complying with regulation 7 of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copy Documents) Regulations 1983 he states:

 

(69) “If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under the unilateral power of variation, under the agreement, is a copy of the executed agreement as varied, a sufficient copy for the purpose of section 78 (1), or must the creditor provide a copy of the original agreement as well?”

 

He answers this in his summary in para (108):

 

(108) “Accordingly I conclude that regulation 7 requires a copy of the executed agreement in its original form as well as a statement of the terms as they are at the time of the request”.

 

He further confirms this in his Summary Findings 234:

 

(234/ 4): If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, the creditor must still provide a copy of the original agreement, as well as the varied terms;

 

I've been away for a while so this might have changed but I haven't heard it has!!

 

I'm sure someone else will advise

[AndyOrch]

However, regardless of the position of either party in court, Judge Waksman is clear about complying with regulation 7 of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copy Documents) Regulations 1983 he states:

 

(69) “If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under the unilateral power of variation, under the agreement, is a copy of the executed agreement as varied, a sufficient copy for the purpose of section 78 (1), or must the creditor provide a copy of the original agreement as well?”

 

He answers this in his summary in para (108):

 

(108) “Accordingly I conclude that regulation 7 requires a copy of the executed agreement in its original form as well as a statement of the terms as they are at the time of the request”.

 

He further confirms this in his Summary Findings 234:

 

(234/ 4): If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, the creditor must still provide a copy of the original agreement, as well as the varied terms;

 

I've been away for a while so this might have changed but I haven't heard it has!!

 

I'm sure someone else will advise

 

That is the current legislation and stands.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Alloyz1]

Cheers Andy! Always sweat a bit when offering advice!!