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    • The incident was 03rd March 2024 - and that was the only letter that I have received from MET 15th April 2024 The charge I paid was at the Stansted Airport exit gate (No real relevance now - I thought this charge was for that!!).   Here is the content of email to them (Yes I know I said I was the driver !!!!) as said above -  I thought this charge was for that!! "Stansted Airport" Dear “To whom it may concern” My name is ??  PCN:  ?? Veh Reg: Date of Incident: 03rd March 2024 I have just received a parking charge final reminder letter, dated 10th April 2024 - for an overstay.  This is the first to my knowledge of any overstay. I am aware that I am out of the 28 days, I don’t mean to be rude, this feels like it is a scam My movements on this day in question are, I pulled into what looked like a service station on my way to pick my daughter and family up from Stansted airport. The reason for me pulling into this area was to use a toilet, so I found Starbucks, and when into there, after the above, I then purchased a coffee. After which I then continued with my journey to pick my daughter up. (however after I sent this email I remember that Starbucks was closed so I then I walked over to Macdonalds) There was no signs about parking or any tickets machines to explains about the parking rules. Once at Stansted, I entered and then paid on exit.  So Im not show where I overstayed my welcome.. With gratitude    
    • Just to enlarge on Dave's great rundown of your case under Penalty. In the oft quoted case often seen on PCNs,  viz PE v Beavis while to Judges said there was a case for claiming that £100 was a penalty, this was overruled in this case because PE had a legitimate interest in keeping the car park free for other motorists which outweighed the penalty. Here there is no legitimate interest since the premises were closed. Therefore the charge is a penalty and the case should be thrown out for that reason alone.   The Appeals dept need informing about what and what isn't a valid PCN. Dummies. You should also mention that you were unable to pay by Iphone as there was no internet connection and there was a long  queue to pay on a very busy day . There was no facility for us to pay from the time of our arrival only the time from when we paid at the machine so we felt that was a bit of a scam since we were not parked until we paid. On top of that we had two children to load and unload in the car which should be taken into account since Consideration periods and Grace periods are minimum time. If you weren't the driver and PoFA isn't compliant you are off scot free since only the driver is liable and they are saying it was you. 
    • Thank you dx. I consider myself well and truly told :) x Thank you dx. I consider myself well and truly told :) x
    • Doubt the uneconomic write off would be registered, unless you agreed to accept write off settlement of the claim. It is just cosmetic damage. All that has happened, is that the car has been looked at and they realised the repair costs are going to exceed the value of the car. If the car is perfectly driveable with no upcoming normal work required to pass next MOT, your current Insurers will continue Insurance and you can accept an amount from third party Insurers to go towards you repairing the scratched bodywork.    
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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ET case imminent. Judge orders disclosure one week with bundle to be agreed a week later.

 

Due to non-compliance by the respondents we got their list of docs served less than 48 hours before the bundle is to be agreed. Acknowledged we would get back to them to agree bundle.

 

Five hours after that they send through their witness statements - which they had purposely not included ( 6 days after receiving all of our bundle - so obviously been using our stuff to prepare them) - and a note saying they were sending the bundle out THERE AND THEN!

 

I immediately wrote back saying we had not agreed bundle but would do so overnight.

Bottom line is they sent it out anyway - a day early - without our agreement. It's now with the ET and full of irrelevant material.

 

What next? They seem to be able to do what they like. Ignore court order one week and then ignore us the next. Are they really allowed to get away with this?

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Gather all your papers you want included in the bundle and send to the court, you have to send a copy to the respondents as well.

 

take 6 copies on the day and number them so they can be added without confusion.

 

Sadly the ET system does seem to be strange and its just another of the silly tricks that are played.

 

You could ask for an "unless order" but I would just ignore it and not get stressed.

 

I take it you are representing yourself.

 

I'm not impressed with the system, seems a lot of trouble for little reward and if you get representation it might cost more than you will get.

 

It seems from reading, that more people are going to the county courts to deal with it.

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Thanks.

Yes, representing myself so far - although got a conference with a barrister now as they are really scraping the barrel - all depends on costs really.

Our material is in bundle that's gone off so not worried about that.

Just concerned about all the irrelevant stuff. Do the judges read before the hearing or just wait to get taken to it on the day?

The advice I have had is that I have an extremely strong case - they're just trying to blacken my character and muddy the waters. Just hope the court sees through it.

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If it's irrelevant, then don't worry about it.

 

From what I've read, they are not interested in hearing you are a rascal etc, just interested in what laws have been wronged.

 

As I said, is it cost effective to get a barrister, the payouts don't seem to be fantastic, might end up out of pocket as you don't normally get your costs back.

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Sound advice from smokejumper Nobbysnut. I'm afraid this happens quite often. The ET doesn't seem to clamp down on it - the attitude seems to be - well, forget the respondent's antics along the way, we are all here now (at the hearing) let's get on with it. Respondent's solicitors may seek to mess you around as much as they can in the processes that lead up to the hearing itself. It is meant to unsettle you and reduce your chances of success before you appear before the tribunal itself.

 

 

Good luck with it.

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Thank you so much. It's one hell of a rollercoaster ride and theyve played games all along so nothing surprises me any more. Such a shame that rules are allowed to be broken. Hey ho!

 

I won't give up. They can throw what they like at me. :)

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Don't let the respondent take over, they seem to want to run the show.

 

I'm not sure they go through the bundle, just read your statement.

 

Get all your points across, spoon feed the judges, pretend they are thick and know nothing ( you really will be convinced that they are).

 

Don't rest on your laurels because you have been told you have a strong case, work really hard to show it's strong and why.

 

How long is it scheduled for.

 

You may be lucky and they approach you with an offer, but don't bank on and be prepared.

 

Good luck and please let us know how you got on.

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I'm far from resting, I have no doubt that loopholes are found or that I may just be unlucky on the day.

 

They will never make an offer!

 

Will keep you posted when it's finally over.....

 

Thanks again for all the advice.

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Witness statements aren't exchanged with bundles. They're usually exchanged 2-3 weeks before the hearing!

 

Regarding the bundle, I would write to the ET and state the bundle is not agreed and therefore you will be applying to have the irrelevant sections struck. If you've got a few weeks though I would try and do it with the respondent first. They need to amend the bundle and include a "disputed documents" section.

 

It's probably nothing to worry about. Ultimately, the Judge will decide which documents they want to see and whether they are relevant!

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The general rule is that everything goes into the bundle. I don't think you should be concerned about irrelevant material. If the material is not relevant then the Tribunal won't take it into account. You don't have any right to insist that documents are removed from the bundle.

 

Assume that the Tribunal will not read anything in the bundle except for documents specifically drawn to their attention during the course of evidence.

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The tribunal can and do look up documents ahead of the hearing if something piques their curiosity. Usually at the reading stage.

 

Therefore, when you do your witness statement, make sure you cross reference it to key bundle documents.

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I'm far from resting, I have no doubt that loopholes are found or that I may just be unlucky on the day.

 

They will never make an offer!

 

Will keep you posted when it's finally over.....

 

Thanks again for all the advice.

 

Your hearing may already be past but if not, what ve just read sound very much like my experience.After the trouble of preparing my bundle they insisted on not including,the respondent solicitor before starting cross examination instructed me to put that bundle on the floor(pointing to my bundle) reason stated was to give me room on the table.It worked first hearing and as soon as I put my additional prepared bundle on the floor,under the pressure of cross examination I totally forgot about it and ended up not referring to it,of course it contains all my vital documents and that's why it was rejected.I lost that case

 

In the second part of the case exactly the same thing happened but under cross examination I suddenly remember my vital document in my bundle is on the floor so I reached for it and behold a single document that led to a favorable decision was in the bundle of the floor.

Therefore beware if some one pretends to be nice to you instructing u to put ur prepared bundle on the floor to give u room.

Best wishes

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The person cross-examining you has absolutely no intention of being nice to you! Treat everything they do or say with great suspicion and think hard before responding to them.

 

They are being paid handsomely and they will do anything to win.

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