Bailiff coming at 5pm

[Woodi79]

Dear Sir,

 

I have been in some contact with your staff and the bailiffs, and i believe both conduct of these parties has not been adequate.

I have tried to deal with the bailiffs to no avail, none of their letters have dates times on and they falsely levied a car that is not mine without first checking the ownership.

 

Conwy council stafff have threatened me with prison quote,

"If no arrangement is made or there are no goods to recover then the next stage will be to apply to commit you to prison.

This course of action will incur costs of £305.00 and you may receive a custodial sentence of no more than 90 days."

 

although they have replied with the following information,

no one has made any exceptions for what I see as my vulnerable situation,

the bailiffs have ignored all my email contact.

 

I would like this matter addressed please as it is very detrimental to my health at the moment.

 

Yours, me

 

On Thursday, 27 March 2014, 14:49, the court officer [email protected]>

wrote:

Dear Sir,

 

Thank you for your emails; I have investigated this matter and received advice from my manager in relation to your situation.

 

I will endeavour to address all the points raised in your emails, and then outline my decision.

 

Please could you forward the following

I believe my colleague has already addressed the questions below, but I am happy to provide this information again.

 

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you – There are currently 4 Liability Orders with outstanding debts on account ref ...

2 - the dates they were obtained – 05.07.2011, 02.07.2012, 05.11.2012 and 07.01.2014

3 - the addresses they were for – ....

4 - the period of time each covers – 01.04.2011 – 31.03.2012, 01.04.2012 – 04.07.2012, 05.07.2012 – 31.03.2013 and 01.04.2013 – 05.07.2013

5 - how much each one was for – £905.49, £955.73, 817.69 and £133.22

6 - how much is still outstanding – £178.14, £290.53, £566.33 and £73.22 This does not include Bailiff fees. The balance of £73.22 remains with the authority under arrangement

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement – Three Liability Orders sent to Jacobs on 09.12.2014

8 - the dates & amounts of any payments – Please see attached statement confirming all payments received

 

I would also be grateful if you can confirm that you are refusing to accept my payments, and

can you also confirm that you are responsible for the conduct of any contractors, i.e. Jacobs harrasment and levy upon a random car.

 

I would also be grateful if you could give me contact details for complaints and your local councilor

as I wish to begin a stage 1 formal complaint to the councillor.

 

– No payments will be refused by the authority; the bailiffs will be notified of any payments made directly to Conwy Council once the balance of £73.22 has been cleared.

 

However, any fees incurred will remain collectable by the bailiff.

 

With regards to the car,

Jacobs have advised that they are conducting investigations to determine the owner of the car.

The bailiffs are expected to work to an agreed Code of Practice,

I will take this matter up with the bailiffs company if you provide details of any actions that you believe were not appropriate.

 

If you wish to make a formal complaint at stage 1,

please see the attached information and address your complaint to the Local Taxation Manager Mr Kelvin Jones at [email protected]

 

We have just received, 08:45,

notice of removal for the previously mentioned debts from the bailiffs.

It is for removal of goods today at 5pm,

however like I have stated the bailiffs will not gain entry.

 

They have also levied upon a car, XXXXXXXXXX, that I do not even know whos it is,

it is not even on our street right now and I do not even own a car let alone a XXXXXXXXXX,

I would like to point out that they cannot charge me for this either.

The bailiff letters show amounts for £375.64, £403.03 and £778.83.

 

Here are details of your forwarded figures ;

 

The balances with the bailiff are as follows:

 

01/04/2011 - 01/04/2012 £178.14 outstanding. The liability order was granted 05/07/2011. – The debt is £178.14; you have incurred £197.50 bailiff fees – Total £375.64

01/04/2012 - 05/07/2012 £290.53 outstanding. The liability order was granted 02/07/2012. – The debt is £290.53; you have incurred £92.50 bailiff fees – Total £383.03

 

Both of the above are outstanding for .........

 

05/07/2012 - 01/04/2013 £566.33 outstanding. The liability order was granted 05/11/2012 – The debt is £566.33 you have incurred £102.50 bailiff fees – Total 668.83

 

The above information has been obtained from the bailiff’s system; if you wish to confirm this with the bailiff office, please call 0151 6504900.

 

could someone please tell me why?

I know what fees bailiffs are allowed to charge.

II would be grateful if you could stop this action as it is causing extreme distress on my family,

despite me making payments which I have already sent receipt numbers for.

Please could you contact me A.S.A.P.

 

Payments received recently are as follows: 07.02.2014 – £10.00 – Bailiff notified

18.02.2014 – £20.00 – Reduced balance for 01.04.2013 – 05.07.2013

04.03.2014 – £20.00 – Reduced balance for 01.04.2013 – 05.07.2013

26.03.2014 – £20.00 – Reduced balance for 01.04.2013 – 05.07.2013

 

I confirm that payments have been received, but payments have not been made regularly,

prior to the above; no payments were received in November, December or January.

The reason the debt was set over to the bailiffs is due to the fact that you were not making payments.

 

Hi,

just wanted to confirm that you have refused my offer of payments despite me paying regularly.

I also wish to confirm that although you have the power to stop the bailiff action,

you are refusing to do so despite me contacting yourselves with a reasonable offer of payment

considering my financial circumstances and health matters.

 

I can prove that I have not willfully refused or am culpable neglect,

considering I informed you I lost my job.

Please confirm the above so I can inform my legal representative.

 

– I must advise that Conwy Council has accepted your offer of payment on the Liability Order that remains with the authority.

You were given numerous opportunities to clear the debts prior to them being issued to the bailiff.

I note that six arrangements were set and you defaulted on all of them.

 

This left the authority no alternative, but to issue the accounts over to a bailiff to collect.

 

Council Tax is a statutory tax and you have neglected your obligation to pay.

 

I can confirm again that any payments made directly to Conwy Council will be passed to the bailiff

once the balance of £73.22 has been cleared; no payments will be refused.

-----------------------------------------

So are you saying I am to receive a summons for commital to prison or a means enquiry for liability?

I have accepted laibility and have proposed repayments which no one has accepted, of which regular payments have been made.

 

Please could you also send me a breakdown of the figures as they don't tally with the bailiffs.

– Liability has already been established at the Liability Order hearings.

 

When the authority asks the Magistrates to grant a warrant of commitment to prison

, a full Means Enquiry is carried out in order to examine your circumstances

and conduct during the time the debt was accrued in order to establish if you are guilty of Wilful Refusal or Culpable Neglect.

 

In conclusion,

I must advise that I am not prepared to return this account from the bailiff.

The debts were correctly sent to the bailiff as you have failed to make payments in accordance with the statutory monthly instalments scheme,

as per the Council Tax (Administration & Enforcement) Regulations 1992.

 

You were given many opportunities to make payments directly to the authority prior to the debt being allocated to a bailiff.

Council Tax is a priority debt and having investigated this matter it would appear that you have not prioritised Council Tax over other bills and have therefore neglected to pay.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Swyddog Adennill y Llys / Court Recovery Officer

Gwasanaethau Refeniw a Budd-daliadau / Revenues and Benefits Services

Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol CONWY County Borough Council

*

: www.conwy.gov.uk

PPeidiwch a printio'r neges yma os nad oes angen Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to

ÿLleihau Ailddefnyddio Ailgylchuü Reduce Re-use Recycle ü

 

 

On Wednesday, 26 March 2014, 14:45, Sarah Warmington wrote:

 

Dear Sir,

The balances with the bailiff are as follows:

01/04/2011 - 01/04/2012 £178.14 outstanding. The liability order was granted 05/07/2011.

01/04/2012 - 05/07/2012 £290.53 outstanding. The liability order was granted 02/07/2012.

 

Both of the above are outstanding for ..... .

05/07/2012 - 01/04/2013 £566.33 outstanding. The liability order was granted 05/11/2012.

 

This is outstanding for .... .

 

Since your email dated 07/02/2014 £50.00 has been received,

£10.00 on 07/02/2014, £20.00 on 18/02/2014 and 04/03/2014.

 

These payments have been credited to the amount due for 01/40/2013 - 05/07/2013.

The liability order was granted on 07/01/2014.

 

If the cases are returned from the bailiff with no goods certificates then you will be summonsed to appear before Llandudno Magistrates Court

for a means enquiry where the magistrates will be asked to find either culpable neglect or wilful refusal.

 

I trust this clarifies the situation,

however, if you are not satisfied with my response please direct any future enquiries to my court officer, [email protected]

Regards.

 

Swyddog Refeniw / Revenues Officer

Gwasanaethau Cyllid A Budd-daliadau / Revenues and Benefit Service

Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol CONWY County Borough Council

Ffon/Phone: 01492 576439

E-Bost / E-Mail:

Gwê / Web: www.conwy.gov.uk

 

From: me

Sent: 26 March 2014 14:21

To: Sarah Warmington

Subject: Re: .................

Hi,

thanks for the reply,

 

I am lost as to what all these debts are for, they all appear to have the same reference.

As for the bailiff, they will not accept any payment arrangement and it also appears you will not.

I have begun payments directly to yourselves, a total of £70 to date,

however is it not Conwy council that would take me to court and not the bailiffs?

 

Im pretty sure im right and as it appears you are not accepting arrangements even though I have begun regular payments,

this is neglecting your duties.

 

Aswell as what appears to be a threat of prison, judges usually only commit to prison in willful refusal of payments,

I would be happy to go to court to express my case.

 

Certain circumstances are in place enabling councils to take back debts from bailiffs,

I have had this happen to be before, which im sure for evryone involved would be a fairer option.

Your me

 

On Wednesday, 26 March 2014, 13:55,

 

Dear Sir,

Further to your email below.

 

Following your last email dated 07/02/2014 a reply was sent via royal mail advising the arrears of £1035.00 had been passed to the bailiff

as your previous arrangement had defaulted.

 

However, an arrangement was set to clear the balance of £133.22 due for the period 01/04/2013 - 05/07/2013.

 

This balance has now been reduced to £93.22 due to the payments you have made.

 

With reference to the arrears with the bailiff, I must advise you contact them to discuss a payment arrangement.

 

If no arrangement is made or there are no goods to recover then the next stage will be to apply to commit you to prison.

This course of action will incur costs of £305.00 and you may receive a custodial sentence of no more than 90 days.

 

I trust this clarifies the situation, however, please do not hesitate to contact the recovery section on (01492) 576608 or by email to [email protected].

Regards.

 

Swyddog Refeniw / Revenues Officer

Gwasanaethau Cyllid A Budd-daliadau / Revenues and Benefit Service

Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol CONWY County Borough Council

Ffon/Phone: 01492 576439

E-Bost / E-Mail: [email protected]

Gwê / Web: www.conwy.gov.uk

 

From: me

Sent: 26 March 2014 12:51

To: Erika Parry

Cc: Tim Gledhill; Hben Enquiries; Sarah Warmington; JacobsMail; [email protected]

Subjec......

 

With reference to the above Jacobs account that correspond with Conwy council reference ......,

 

I am writing to inform both parties that I have been making regular payments, not as the bailiff stated today at 12:15 pm.

Receipt numbers are .........

 

I have previously contacted both parties regarding the recent contact I have had but no one seems interested in replying to me.

I have made an offer of £10 per week which neither party has accepted, but I have tried to make the regular payments anyway despite this.

I am fully aware of the situation and accept the debt and have taken steps to rectify this by commencing payments.

 

As I have stated in previous correspondance, I understand the law and my rights regarding council tax debt,

bailiffs e.t.c. I am not willfully refusing to pay, hence the receipt numbers, and have no goods of value for sale at auction to cover the debt,

therefore I am and will exercise my rights with regards Bailiffs, e.g. no entry, no levy e.t.c.

 

I am at a loss as to why Conwy council cannot understand my situation and take this debt back,

which they Have every power to do, given that all this is causing my family serious distress to the point that I have increased my medication,

we are after all as a country struggling to make ends meet.

 

I am more than willing for this to go court so I can put my side to an impartial judge,

something which I hope will not take place as I feel I have tried my best to arrange repayments which no-one seems happy with.

 

My wife and I are trying hard to become debt free, we fairly recently paid off other coucil tax arrears,

so as you can see if we are given a chance we will pay, as a judge will hopefully agree.

me

[Woodi79]

I think this is right, have I argued with them too much?No one has yet addressed my possible vulnerable situation

[Woodi79]

Just had this too

 

Dear Sir,

 

If you would like to make a complaint directly to Jacobs Bailiffs, please write to 4 Europa Boulevard , Birkenhead, Merseyside , CH41 4PE , outlining your concerns so they can investigate the matter.

 

Yours faithfully,

[Woodi79]

Am I still right in thinking they have no right to gain entry despite all this? i am more than willing to go to court and fight my corner with them

[hallowitch]

Am I still right in thinking they have no right to gain entry despite all this? i am more than willing to go to court and fight my corner with them

 

 

 

yes you have the right to refuse them entry DO NOT LET THEM IN

 

 

as your fees for each account are over £42.50 then Jacobs must be claiming a levy and an attendance to remove fee on each account it therefore stands to reason that the next stage of enforcement would be the removal of goods and not a committal hearing

 

I would be asking the council and Jacobs why they are insisting on entry to your premises to levy when clearly according to fees charged on each account a levy has already taken place

 

 

EDIT

 

 

fees are less in wales it should be £39 not £42.50

 

 

Visit 1 = £24.50 (£22.50 in Wales)

Visit 2 = £18.00 (£16.50 in Wales)

[rebel11]

Hi Woodi

 

You shouldn't have argued with them at all. All that was required was the 'Vulnerable Persons' template sent to the Bailiffs and Council. That's why I suggested using a template. Ask them why they aren't adhering to the National Standards for Enforcement Agents regarding Vulnerable People?

 

Vulnerable people are defined as:

 

• pensioners
  
• disabled people
  
• single parent families
  
• unemployed people
  
• mental handicap or mental confusion
  
• long-term sickness, serious illness or frailty
  
• deafness or blindness or limited sight or hearing
  
• recent bereavement (for example if a close family relative has died);
  

 

 

I think this is right, have I argued with them too much?No one has yet addressed my possible vulnerable situation

[Woodi79]

I know thanks guys but I was getting irate and upset! I have enquired again about both points raised, Fees and how they have been added and vulnerable people situation, bailiffs are due in 5 mins, will post soon, Thanks again giys for helping keep me sane and not lecturing.

[renegadeimp]

Keep all doors and windows closed and locked. Keep vehicles a good 10 mins way. If they do call, just ignore them. Completely. The levy they say they have is invalid, so it doesnt count. Thats why you need to pester the council, and get the Councils CEO and your MP involved.

[Woodi79]

Cheers, doors locked, emails already sent to councilors and complaints departments. I have also informed them both as stated before about possible invaled fees, not looking at my situation and conduct of the bailiffs.

[renegadeimp]

SOunds like you are dealign with a rogue bailiff within jacobs. Especially since he's levied on a car that wasnt yours or anywhere near your house.

[Woodi79]

Well the car he levied on has now gone with its owner and still no bailiffs,im sure iv'e not heard the last of this, think i upset a few people at the council!

[brassnecked]

Well the car he levied on has now gone with its owner and still no bailiffs,im sure iv'e not heard the last of this, think i upset a few people at the council!

 

I woudn't worry about that, Jacobs are from Liverpool so obviously have applied costs for Lloegr and not Cymraeg, so they and CCBC are way out of order on that one, so that alone can go as part of a Formal Complaint to Iwan Davies your AM and MP. maybe this thread needs to be brought to the attention of Oscar?

 

That would really get CCBC worried

[renegadeimp]

I woudn't worry about that, Jacobs are from Liverpool so obviously have applied costs for Lloegr and not Cymraeg, so they and CCBC are way out of order on that one, so that alone can go as part of a Formal Complaint to Iwan Davies your AM and MP. maybe this thread needs to be brought to the attention of Oscar?

 

That would really get CCBC worried

 

You would upset quite a few welsh people using the word lloegr like that

[brassnecked]

You would upset quite a few welsh people using the word lloegr like that

Well Jacobs would upset many Welsh people by applying English fees in Wales, I think I will phone Jacobs and ask them about their Welsh language policy.

 

But OP must challenge on the vulnerability and unlawful levy.

[Woodi79]

Thanks guys, have challenged the fees and th vulnerability case with both council and bailiffs, no reply from Jacobs, but the council have replied

 

"Having checked your account the situation is as set out by my colleague in her email below. No payments were received after 16/10/13 so on 09/12/13 (not 09/12/14 as stated below obviously ) the three earlier liability orders were referred to Jacobs bailiffs.

 

The debts are due for the periods stated, and are clearly long overdue. You have had previous arrangements to pay but have failed to comply with those arrangements.

 

The payments that you have recently made direct to the Council have been credited to the debt for the latest liability order, which the bailiffs are not dealing with. We will not refuse payments but any payments made direct will be credited to the latest debt, which is not with the bailiffs.

 

I understand that they are making enquiries as to the ownership of the vehicle.

 

The fees that the bailiffs are allowed to charge are set in statute, and they will provide details of fees incurred.

 

My staff have a duty to make you aware of the possible consequences of failure to pay these debts. If the bailiffs are unable to recover the debt then I may have no option other than to commence committal proceedings. I would not be prepared to make any further arrangements as you have already defaulted on those made previously. The Magistrates would have to decide whether or not you have been guilty of Culpable Neglect or Wilful Refusal when arriving at their decision.

 

You describe your situation as vulnerable. Please would you advise me why you believe that to be the case.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Kelvin Jones"

 

I emailed them back

 

"Dear Sir, just to add to the previous, Jacobs have or will not reply to my request of breakdown of fees nor to my vulnerable persons situation. I have had no alternative but to contact you.They have also forgotten to date letters and wrongfully levied a random car in the street. This I beleive is unnacceptable as contractors employed by yourselves.Yours, me

Hide message history

 

 

On Thursday, 27 March 2014, 16:59, me wrote:

Dear sir,

As previously stated in many emails I am unemployed and have been on medication for long term depression,much of which arose from previous unsavoury dealings with Jacobs.

I will continue to make payments direct to yourselves as all my arrears have the same number from yourselves. I would welcome a chance to have a means test as I feel in my circumstances I have tried my best to deal with the situation. Extra court fees would only add to my burden of arrears.

Yours, me"

 

Office probably shut now! I also sent emails to various councillors in my previous wards, Kinmel Bay and Abergele, only one reply who forwarded my message to coyuncil tax enquiries!!! Like I hadn't already done that!!! Forgot to point out, I know reside back in England, have done for nearly a year, pace of life too slow over there! Would this affect the fees charged?

[Woodi79]

Sorry, who is Oscar???

[rebel11]

Hi Woodi

 

Hopefully from what you've told them about your circumstances, unemployed and health they will be sympathetic towards you.

 

'You describe your situation as vulnerable. Please would you advise me why you believe that to be the case.

[brassnecked]

Sorry, who is Oscar???

 

http://thoughtsofoscar.blogspot.co.uk/

 

 

CCBC hate his blog and he gets right up their noses.

[Woodi79]

Well thanks everyone so far, no responses to last emails, probably get some tomorrow, and still no return bailiff visit.

 

I will be drafting a letter in the morning to complain to Iwan Davies,

 

seems i have ruffled a few feathers,

 

its amazing how many responses I have had to my emails today,

 

probably because I emailed 11 different people and kept on at them for replies!

 

I will most likely be back on tomorrow to mither you all for advice again,

 

its not that I can't find infromation myself its just nice to have my own research backed up by those who know what they are talking about.

 

Thanks again

[rebel11]

Please update your thread.

[Woodi79]

Sorry, not sure what you mean?

[rebel11]

Update your thread when the council get back to you.

 

Sorry, not sure what you mean?

[Woodi79]

Definately will, really appreciate all the help CAG

[dx100uk]

as you have 4 LO's

 

I suspect the bailiff has levied the 1st and 2nd visit on each LO but has only been to your door twice?

 

so in all effect he cant do that.

[ploddertom]

At the risk of overloading you with all that has been said, I wonder if you can shed some more light on the following plus other bits that may not have been mentioned previously.

 

You say you have 4 Liability Orders against you. Why therefore did the Council wait so long before taking action on 3 previous LO's in December 2013. They have in my view got all they deserved by dragging their heels by making life difficult for you in trying to clear them - at best it shows them to be tawdry and worst think you could have a case for maladministration.

 

By giving the Bailiff 3 LO's together they should all have been treated as just one and therefore charged as such, seeing as the levy they have is more than suspect you should only owe at worst for a 1st & 2nd Visit Fee = £39-00 total.

 

The Council freely admit that payments you are making are being paid off the debt they still have, nothing wrong with that, but are you aware that you could have told them which one it had to go towards.

 

As regards the Bailiffs, have you actually asked them for a breakdown of the fees they are charging? If yes, how long ago? If no, then you should really do so ASAP. If they are being obstructive about doing it then drop it all back in the Council's lap and when they squirm and say "nothing to do with us" then just remind them they are 100% liable for the actions of their agents - the words to use are vicarious liability. To make some sense of the sums involved I use a simple spreadsheet but at present you are still a lot of information missing, which is why it is important to have the fee breakdown.

 

As for your Councillor(s) then I find that the best initial contact is by phone. If they refuse or are reluctant then go straight to the Leader of the Council and his/her opposite number.