The morals of private parking thread

[determindator]

I still think that if you park and you know the what is going to happen if you park incorrectly t still choose to do so anyway, then you deserve the extortionate fees involves. Yes they are high, but park

 

properly and you won't pay a penny.

 

There are many cases where the reason for getting a penalty charge is not black and white. My nephew met up with a friend for lunch on a regular basis at a hotel where his friend worked. Out of the blue he received a notice from parking eye. This was because PE was a new system the hotel adopted. He told the hotel management he was in the hotel eating. He was told he needed to give his car reg at reception to avoid a notice. He explained he had been eating regularly there and was not told at any stage to give his reg and no notice at reception. So lack of communication on the hotel's part. My nephew has to appeal two tickets as he visited the hotel twice in a short period and PE issued on each occasion. He paid cash for lunch and no need to keep receipts. He will just keep replying to PE's insistent letters until hopefully they give up.

 

I got a notice recently. for using a service road behind shops. I've used the road for years so a new system again. The new sign is high up behind leaves of a tree, I had to go back and look as iI couldn't understand why I'd received the notice. I just keep replying and repeating my appeal so see what materialises.

[porkyp1g]

There are many cases where the reason for getting a penalty charge is not black and white. My nephew met up with a friend for lunch on a regular basis at a hotel where his friend worked. Out of the blue he received a notice from parking eye. This was because PE was a new system the hotel adopted. He told the hotel management he was in the hotel eating. He was told he needed to give his car reg at reception to avoid a notice. He explained he had been eating regularly there and was not told at any stage to give his reg and no notice at reception. So lack of communication on the hotel's part. My nephew has to appeal two tickets as he visited the hotel twice in a short period and PE issued on each occasion. He paid cash for lunch and no need to keep receipts. He will just keep replying to PE's insistent letters until hopefully they give up.

 

I got a notice recently. for using a service road behind shops. I've used the road for years so a new system again. The new sign is high up behind leaves of a tree, I had to go back and look as iI couldn't understand why I'd received the notice. I just keep replying and repeating my appeal so see what materialises.

 

As I've said, I have no issue with those who are victim of circumstance or misunderstanding. It's those who intentionally park where or how they want, to the detriment of other users and then try and worm out of it when they get the fine the signs clearly state they will get. Some people on here helping them do it because they don't agree with the parking firms methods, just seems wrong to me.

[renegadeimp]

It's an unavoidable fact renegade

 

Opinion. Not a fact. Take care not to mix the two.

[renegadeimp]

As I've said, I have no issue with those who are victim of circumstance or misunderstanding. It's those who intentionally park where or how they want, to the detriment of other users and then try and worm out of it when they get the fine the signs clearly state they will get. Some people on here helping them do it because they don't agree with the parking firms methods, just seems wrong to me.

 

And there we go. Youve just shown your lack of understanding on the subject. They are NOT fines. At all. In any sense of the word.

 

I'll say it again. We can see where your ideology is coming from, but we and everyone else has to work within the law. And sadly PPC's ( who you agree with) do NOT do that.

[dpick]

And porky has still not answered my question about the morals of the PPC

 

 

dpick

[renegadeimp]

He wont. He hasnt in any thread. He makes a good opinion but doesnt realise that his views are actually unlawful.

[silverfox1961]

This thread has shown up some interesting opinions.

 

I happen to agree with most of what is being said here. Persistent parkers (you know the ones) should be targeted (IMO) The ones that park all day for free and go to work to the detriment of 'proper' parkers. In that respect, I agree with PP.

 

Where I do not agree is where a 'proper' parker is given a maximum of 2 hours free parking (for example) and goes over by a few minutes or (which has been mentioned in another thread) someone else parks so close that you cannot get into the car, a charge is raised, appealed, rejected. These are valid grounds for having a ticket cancelled but the PPC refuse to do so as it means less money for them.

 

Disabled drivers being targeted because they forgot to put up their disabled badge in a supermarket car park and when they supply proof with their appeal, still get rejected. (And yes, I know it is just graffiti) This is (IMO) wrong.

 

Hospital parking is another issue. All you need to do is visit the Parking Prankster site to see just what lengths the PPCs go to in order to separate people from their money.

 

The Parking Prankster (while we are on the issue) 'double dips' car parks with ANPR fitted just to show how ridiculous these companies are. One will accept an appeal while the other refuses. Silly really.

 

I have responded on a thread about a parking ticket at a hospital in Scotland managed by CP Plus. The actual charge is £40, reduced to £20 if paid within 14 days. While I feel this figure is still too high (IMO) it is a lot fairer and does what it is intended to do. Focus the mind. This hospital has a system in place so that if you are likely to go over the 4 hour limit or you are held up for longer than usual, you can contact the hospital for an exemption.

 

The hospital I visit regularly (NNUH) has a barrier system in place and at the reception in each block has a notice for disabled drivers to get their parking voucher validated so that they can park for as long as necessary for free. Other people also get reduced fee parking in certain circumstances.

 

This hospital also told all disabled drivers of a new car park across the road which was initially run by NCP and that the exemptions afforded to them was not valid at the new car park. Brilliant!

 

One of the main problems of a forum is that we are likely never to get the full story from a poster re: whether they are a persistent offender or not and as such, I believe, we should be treating them as a single 'offence' rather than just saying they should just follow the rules and when they get it wrong, pay up.

 

disclaimer. All I have said above is my personal opinion and should not be taken as the view of the entire site team.

[steampowered]

I agree entirely with silverfox.

 

In my view PPCs should be used to make sure the parking is used for its intended purpose. They should not be used as a money raising exercise or to try and subsidise the cost of operating a car park. I think it is fine if the parking ticket bears some sort relationship to the loss that may be suffered due to an infringement (e.g. preventing another customer from parking in the space) but flat fines of say £100 are not on.

[ericsbrother]

the big companies have plenty of options to make sure that only their customers use their car parks

but they take the cheapest laziest and cost contentious option of letting these bandits run the parking control for them.

 

the truth is, it is not parking management or control that these companies actually do,

it is the invention of rules that are outside the scope of traffic law as a method of maximising their income at the most minimal cost to them

in terms of manpower and effort.

 

Now, disabled parking is a misnomer,

it is merely an ideal for the big stores to get brownie points when they apply for planning permission.

 

There is no rule broken by people parking in a disabled space and not showing a blue badge

as the blue badge scheme doesnt apply.

 

What about people who are disabled in ways that dont get a blue badge anyway?

It can be argued that limiting diabled parking to those with blue badges is discriminatory.

 

My father has a blue badge and he is not disabled, he is average ability for his age but he is geriatric.

I have a back broken in 2 places, brain injury and only one working leg

but I am not disabled because I can hobble to the shops in a set time whilst wearing my orthotic.

cant remember what i have gone shopping for but that is another issue.

 

I have a protected characteristic according to the EA but does that mean I can use a disabled bay at a supermarket without telling them beforehand?

 

If I accept what someone writes on a sign placed unlawfully on someone else's land

then it cost me £100 for doing so but I may sue the store to get my money back.

 

I dont park in disabled bays because the geriatrics that do tend to bash their cars into everyone around them so they are best avoided.

 

As the parking bandits' games become better known they will start to give up their franchises

and the stores will have to think about how to manage their land for themselves again.

 

There are many simple methods of barrier control that require no cash or human intervention.

 

A simple token or barcode system will let out the shoppers and having to drag some poor sod out of a store

so the interloper can get out will soon cause them to consider whether it is better to aprk elsewhere or buy something.

 

Barcode readers can determine time parked so a 3 hour limit is easily enforced.

 

For smaller enterprises a rising pole in the ground will do,

cheapest are key locked, others are remote control so pubs and the like can regulate theri use from the CCTV in the bar.

 

If the owner of the land wants to charge then that is OK, it is their land.

 

What I hate is these current lot making money by misrepresenting their abilities and claiming rights they dont have.

[SabreSheep]

I thought the question was orgianlly to discuss whether we shoudl help people get out of fines etc and that we are leaving ourselves open to being abused by pesistant offenders.

 

My answer to that is simple. Ignore the legalities.

 

What Porkie is asking for us to do is to deliver a judgement on someone before we give them help.

 

IMO that is not our job. That is the job of the Ministry of Justice.

 

IF Charge notices etc do not comply with legislation then it is down to the companies to lobby our political class to create legislation and get the support for it to pass before it becomes law. This means they have to operate inside the law.

 

It is not our duty to pass morale judgements and pick and choose who gets help and who does not.

 

In this country is it not (in most cases) Innocent till proven guilty.

 

Again they can be only proven guilty by a court.

 

By offering people advise all that is done is giving the person the tools to challenge the point. That is their right to do.

 

Yes, someone parking in a disabled bay is a morale offense. However on private land there is no law to back it at the moment. All you can do is make it socially unacceptable to do. You cannot however abuse the law of this land or disregard it on morale grounds alone. To do so undermines the whole system of LAW

 

Oh and yes, I have a Disabled Nephew. I hate it when those bays are abused but i understand that my nephew is also protected by our legal system and therefore to undermine that same system by condoning action of car park cow boys just does not compute with me.

[dx100uk]

fines what fines?

 

porky only ever posts to gain attention

 

I see you are reasonably new

 

so now you know

 

dx