The morals of private parking thread

[porkyp1g]

Since they are an official body, I like to think they do know what they are talking about.

 

Agent? The land owner has asked the agent to enforce on their behalf. The contract is still in place.

 

It maybe a small amount of money but didn't the official body for parking associations set the limit as £100. For me they have set expectation on this matter, but saying anything up to £100 is possible.

[f16]

[quote name=

 

By parking on their private land, you enter into contract law with them, and you agree to their rules parking on said land.[/quote]

 

There is NO contract If it went to Court and the "Parking Co. were asked to produce the contract between the "Land owner" and them selves. They have nothing to produce.

So there are "No rules".

I will ask again . How can you accept this as OK ?

[armadillo71]

Since they are an official body, I like to think they do know what they are talking about.

 

Agent? The land owner has asked the agent to enforce on their behalf. The contract is still in place.

 

It maybe a small amount of money but didn't the official body for parking associations set the limit as £100. For me they have set expectation on this matter, but saying anything up to £100 is possible.

The PPC has to have a contract with the landowner stating they have the authority to pursue any driver/reg keeper to court. Then an alleged contract is formed by signs put up by the PPC with the driver.

 

 

The BPA are a trade organisation. They can say any sum they like, but the law is clear.

You brought citizens advice up,so read it. I'll quote it again;

 

Parking and contract law

 

Parking on private land is all about the law of contract. If landowners allow you to park on their land, you enter into a contract with the landowner. If you break the landowner’s parking rules, you break your contract with the landowner. You might do this by not paying, staying longer than the time you have paid for or parking in the wrong place.

If you park without any permission at all you are trespassing.

If you break the parking rules private landowners can issue a parking ticket and recover the losses they’ve suffered. These losses are likely to be a small amount of money

[labrat]

im going to assume that most companys do not have a contract with the land owner as they have a contract with the leaser of the property instead

intresting loophole that

 

although i can see the point about why should we help people that do it deliberately im also going to point out that i doubt people would admit to doing it deliberately

[steampowered]

Personally, I've never been entirely convinced by the 'contract must be with the landowner' argument. I do see the rationale but personally I don't see any real reason why the contract can't be with the PPC or why the PPC can't act as an agent for the landlord (although of course the PPC might find it very difficult to prove that it has suffered loss).

[sequenci]

There is NO contract If it went to Court and the "Parking Co. were asked to produce the contract between the "Land owner" and them selves. They have nothing to produce.

So there are "No rules".

I will ask again . How can you accept this as OK ?

 

The contract doesn't have to be in writing. So long as the signs are clear and unambiguous a contract can be formed simply by someone parking on the land - and thus performance has taken place.

[sequenci]

Personally, I've never been entirely convinced by the 'contract must be with the landowner' argument. I do see the rationale but personally I don't see any real reason why the contract can't be with the PPC or why the PPC can't act as an agent for the landlord (although of course the PPC might find it very difficult to prove that it has suffered loss).

 

From what I understand, since the whole landowner debacle many PPCs have updated their contracts with landowners.

[armadillo71]

From what I understand, since the whole landowner debacle many PPCs have updated their contracts with landowners.

 

Which we have yet to see proof of at POPLA or court.

[silverfox1961]

I have a disabled badge and I use disabled bays whenever one is available. Would I use a mother and child spot if the disabled bays were full-no! I would park where there were two spaces so I could open my door wide to get out. I feel that is the 'moral' thing to do.

 

We all know that lines on a supermarket car park are graffiti and have no status in law.

 

Have I seen some able bodied person park in a disabled way and use the cash machine-yes! Annoying-yes! Illegal-no. Unlawful-no!

 

I spotted a statement on the website of A S Parking in Cornwall where they state that the charges they levy go to the running costs of the company. The landowner do not get charged nor do they get a cut of the fee.

 

If there was a charge that was around £20 which would include admin fees then I feel that would be about right but the punitive charge they levy cannot be a pre estimate of loss.

 

If the PPCs were more moral, would be be too?

[porkyp1g]

I don't think so silverfox. If they were more moral, I think you would see more inconsiderate parking. IMHO.

[armadillo71]

You gonna answer my point renegade? How do you quantify a loss where someone has parked in a disabled bay.

 

 

How do you manage/monitor a disabled bay with ANPR cameras?

[porkyp1g]

I still think that if you park and you know the what is going to happen if you park incorrectly t still choose to do so anyway, then you deserve the extortionate fees involves. Yes they are high, but park properly and you won't pay a penny.

[renegadeimp]

You should get a job with a PPC porky.

[porkyp1g]

I parked in a free private car park today. The signs are all over and they are very clear. People cannot miss them and only do so when they want to. The signs clearly state you will be shanked if you choose to break the rules. It's common sense renegade, it really is? Have you had one of these pcn's?

[renegadeimp]

Porky.... i was joking. Everyone has their own opinion of whats right and wrong. However, we have to advise according to law and regulation. Not simply morality. If we took your stance, then PPC's would become millionaires overnight as they issue tickets for anything at all.

[porkyp1g]

No I don't think so. Another way it could go is people would learn from their mistakes and park correctly next time, which will benefit us all. Parking notices go down and then they are needed to be enforced as much. You ever notice how many of the threads start "my son/daughter parked in this car park"......well they will never learn from it because they have been given a loophole to try and avoid paying it. They should have thought about it before they parked is a disabled spot or across two spaces, or parked there and went to the gym......

 

Don't get me wrong, people who a victims of circumstance like the person had an accident in a car park, meaning they overstayed. I get that they need advice and help. It's the people who do it purposely meaning you and I need to park elsewhere due to their ignorance, and then get help getting out of it. It's so wrong.

[renegadeimp]

Technically they are parking correctly. Any markings on private land are purely grafitti and have no relevance in law. THAT is one of the reasons PPC's cant do what they do. Put this together with the fact they cant claim what they try as it doesnt reflect their costs.....

 

It's like saying the rogue clampers should never have been banned. PPC's in car parks, especially FREE to park, car parks should never be allowed to charge anything ever, for any reason. I can understand your viewpoint, but again, the law is the law and PPC's regularly ignore it. PE being a prime example.

[dpick]

I still think that if you park and you know the what is going to happen if you park incorrectly t still choose to do so anyway, then you deserve the extortionate fees involves. Yes they are high, but park properly and you won't pay a penny.

 

 

And what about the morality of the PPC that is defeated in court due to these costs being a load of bull, where is the morality of the PPC's who then keep trying to get these immoral sums from the unwary.

 

 

dpick

[dx100uk]

thread tidied.

 

dx

[porkyp1g]

And what about the morality of the PPC that is defeated in court due to these costs being a load of bull, where is the morality of the PPC's who then keep trying to get these immoral sums from the unwary.

 

 

dpick

 

Unwary? Don't make me laugh. Have you seen the signs at these sites? They are very clear about what will happen if you don't park considerately.

[renegadeimp]

They are very clear yes. But they have no real relevance porky. Thats what i think you are glossing over. Yes, if the signs are clear then the driver would be in breach of the 'contract' that was offered upon entering and using the car park. However, the part where PPC's arguments fall apart every single time, is where they try to claim astronomical charges that have no relevance in reality. Even the courts know this and get pretty angry when a PPC comes along and tries to use them as a form of debt collection. If it was £20 or similar, then the judge would agree and possibly make an order for payment.

 

However, the PPC charges over £100. Often 1000% or more above the price of an actual ticket. They cannot claim it as costs either as they would be paying those costs regardless of if they caught anyone. Not to mention it is a PENALTY charge which is unenforceable under law.

 

Theres no other way to put it. They are not in any position of authority in any sense of the word, so they cannot issue penalty notices.

[dpick]

Unwary? Don't make me laugh. Have you seen the signs at these sites? They are very clear about what will happen if you don't park considerately.

 

 

By unwary I mean the poor people that pay them and do not know any better and would you answer the original question where are the morals of the PPC with the unenforceable costs and penalty charges.

 

dpick

[porkyp1g]

The only way you will meet one of these extortionate costs is if you don't park as requested whilst on private property that is private land. If you park as requested by the land owners, you won't have to pay a penny, no?

[renegadeimp]

That paint is very shiny.....

[porkyp1g]

It's an unavoidable fact renegade