Ticket given by ANPR Ltd. for parking in a Wigan MBC Parking Bay

[GazNicki]

I parked in town this afternoon behind some shops. The shops parking is operated by ANPR Ltd.

 

However, there are about 10 bays which are operated by Wigan MBC and require a council parking permit W5. This permit is required 8am to 6pm Monday to Saturday. So, on a Sunday there is no requirement to display the W5 Permit.

 

While parked in this bay, directly under the Council Sign, I have been given a parking ticket from ANPR Ltd for the sum of £100 (£50 if paid within 14 days).

 

I have taken photos, which I have attached to this thread for clarity. There was another car at the side of me, this too has been issued with the same ticket.

 

Where do I stand? Can I appeal this, and will I be successful. I parked here on a Sunday to go to the £1 shop. So a £50 fine is a kick to the you-know-whats which I can't afford. Especially not when I believe I was not in the wrong.

 

Please help.

 

Picture of the cars in the bays. My car is the Mondeo.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49823[/ATTACH]

 

Closer shot showing my car infront of the WMBC Sign.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49825[/ATTACH]

 

Wigan MBC Parking Sign clearly showing times and days of enforcement.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49824[/ATTACH]

[renegadeimp]

What reason does the PCN state?

[GazNicki]

"Trespassed in an area known to us as Standishgate Wigan.

Other Parking Breach: No permit.

[renegadeimp]

Trespassed? For parking in a public bay? Looks like the PPC has made a big mistake to me. But i'd like to see what others think before i stand by it.

[DBC]

Yes, we are talking about ANPR Ltd who are not the sharpest knifes in the box.

[GazNicki]

Yes, we are talking about ANPR Ltd who are not the sharpest knifes in the box.

 

Would you agree that in this instance I am correct and that the Parking Ticket has been incorrectly issued?

[IPC1963]

Without question every ticket issued by ANPR Ltd has been incorrectly issued. Firstly you need to be a little patient and wait for a notice to keeper to come through the post. They have to satisfy certain requirements with this and pay a paltry £2.50 to DVLA for your details. If they send this within timescales you appeal to them as registered keeper don't inform them who the driver was. They will reject your appeal but the crucial part is they must issue you a POPLA code this costs them £27 and the BPA £100,you start to see where im going with thid. Come back at this stage and get advice on the POPLA appeal this is the important appeal you will win with the correct advice from the forum. Do not start to doubt whether you should pay as ANPR Ltd are simply annoying opportunists.This isnt a fine its a speculative invoice, you wouldn't pay me if I sent you an invoice for breathing air and what they have given you has the same validity.

[ericsbrother]

Agree with above post. If they write to you as keeper of the vehicle they must do so between 28 and 56 days after issuing ticket. Wait ofr that letter and then write back as an appeal pointing out that the space you were parked in belongs to council so they have no contractual authority to claim anything from you and it is outside the scope of the PoFA as covered by councilTraffic Regs so obtaining your details is a breach of DPA as false information given to DVLA.

Let them chew over that and if they have the temerity to write to you again thenan appeal to POPLA pointing out the flaws in their claim (more than just the ones mentioned) and complain to BPA abioout their members using a false instrument to gain a pecuniary advantage. Likewise complain to Trading Standards.

[armadillo71]

Would you agree that in this instance I am correct and that the Parking Ticket has been incorrectly issued?

 

They are all issued incorrectly....

The sign you posted does not show it is council/public space. Is the permit for nhs staff?

As this was a Notice To Driver(windscreen ticket), then do not respond to it. ANPR Ltd have to wait 28 days for the driver to respond, after which they can pay the DVLA to get the registered keeper details. A Notice To Keeper should then be received between 29-56 days from the NTD. This may not happen, but if it does, come back for advice on how to appeal.

[GazNicki]

The multi storey car park is now NHS owned. There is nothing stating NHS on the sign, but the sign is identical to the Controlled Parking Zone signs outside our house, which is a W1 permit zone - which we must obtain from the local council.

[GazNicki]

Hi All,

 

Today I received a letter from ANPR Ltd stating that I owe the ticket.

 

They make reference to the PCN including the reference with the correct date and time, but with an incorrect locaton. The location was Standishgate Wigan, but the Outstanding Parking Notice received today states the location as "Scholes Village, Crompton House, Pemberton, Wigan" which is incorrect.

 

Obviously I have my other arguments above, but will this also bolster my arguments? Where do I go with this now?

 

Thanks in advance guys.

[armadillo71]

Hi All,

 

Today I received a letter from ANPR Ltd stating that I owe the ticket.

 

They make reference to the PCN including the reference with the correct date and time, but with an incorrect locaton. The location was Standishgate Wigan, but the Outstanding Parking Notice received today states the location as "Scholes Village, Crompton House, Pemberton, Wigan" which is incorrect.

 

Obviously I have my other arguments above, but will this also bolster my arguments? Where do I go with this now?

 

Thanks in advance guys.

 

Is that a totally different location?

 

'As registered keeper of vehicle reg no. xxxxxxx, I am appealing your parking charge notice no. xxxxxx.

As registered keeper I am not liable for this charge and am under no obligation to name the driver of this vehicle.

Please cancel this charge forthwith, or alternatively provide me with a validation code for the independent appeals service POPLA. '

 

I don't think there is any point going into the details of public/private land, or wrong address, as this is ANPR ltd....

Clever Trevor and all that.

Appealing to POPLA will get the notice cancelled. Add that you have proof of posting to the appeal as well. ( free at the post office. )

[GazNicki]

Yep, completely different location. The location in question is in the town centre. The location on the OPN is car parking for a block of residential flats - half a mile away as the crow flies.

 

Is that literally all I need in the letter?

[armadillo71]

Is that literally all I need in the letter?

 

What ever your appeal is , it must be as registered keeper.

You can go into the details but letter tennis could be played and ANPR ltd will try and stall on what they have to do.

 

The charge will get cancelled at POPLA and I believe that getting there as quickly as possible is the best way.

 

Read up on ANPR ltd...

[GazNicki]

I will keep the letter as simple as you have suggested to get the POPLA code and get this quashed.

 

Thanks

[ericsbrother]

Yes, it doesnt really matter what ANPR say to you as long as they give you the POPLA code. Then you can have a field day.

[GazNicki]

I have sent my letter requesting a POPLA code from ANPR but have received a "Final Demand" letter from them. It is stating that unless I pay within 7 days they will instruct a local debt recovery agency to collect the 'debt'.

 

Obviously this is just bully-boy tactics. Should I write this off as a letter sent as a cross-over between them sending me the POPLA code, or should I send a further letter demanding a POPLA code?

[ericsbrother]

No POPLA code then no enforcement against you as keeper. Ignore the idiots. If it has been less than 35 days since your appeal to ANPR ltd it is worth complaining to the BPA itself and say that ANPR are in breach of both the BPA code and the PoFA and what are they going to do about it.

You can copy that letter to POPLA through the post so they know that the regulations are being flouted.

[GazNicki]

Thanks ericsbrother

 

Today I received another letter from ANPR. This letter, from a 'N. Martin' which reads:

 

"Having read your letter dted xx/xx/xxxx, and taking into consideration your comment 'I am not liable for this charge and am under no obligation to name the driver of the vehicle.', along with our photographic evidence, ll goes towards confirming the incident and actually weakens any argument you may have considered you had. Please allow me to explain:- ..."

 

The paragraph continues to explain how the code at the bottom of the ticket is broken down into type, time and who. Another paragraph belittles me with an explanation of the definition of 'Not displaying in the windscreen a current or valid permit'.

 

A third paragraph outlines that the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 allows proceedings against the registered keeper of a vehicle.

 

A final paragraph says, 'in light of the above, perhaps you will understand why the PCN was issued, and although I really do sympathise, I must stress that we are contracted by the landowner to enforce the terms & conditions that are stated on the signage at the location, and in these circumstances they have been breached. In conclusion we would suggest that you may wish to re-consider your claim to appeal, as this would nullify any discounts that remain and (should you lose) may incur further costs. If you still feel that you have a valid case to appeal, please write to us against and we will provide you with full details for the Independent Appeals Service (POPLA).'

 

Now, do I hit them with a stern letter? How should I approach this one - as reading this leaves me with red mist!

[armadillo71]

ANPR Ltd have been ' told off ' about this before.

Send a complaint to the BPA.

 

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/anpr-continue-to-send-confusing-appeal.html

 

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/anpr-right-of-reply-rejection-letter.html

[ericsbrother]

you could write to the all-knowing Mr Martin and tell him to get stuffed as the land in question is mot covered by any agreement he thinks he has and anyway he was obliged to issue the POPLA code prior to this time under the protocols of the PoFA and that any further communication will be considered to be harassment and may result in both a criminal complaint and a civil claim. copy letter to the boss of the BPA and also to POPLA saying that ANPR are again abusing the processes laid down by law and attempting to commit fraud.

[DBC]

I Have just been given this information which might be of help. Its from Wigan Council:-

 

From:

Date: Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 10:06 AM

Subject: Freedom of Information Request - 5677

To: xxxxxxxxxxx

 

Dear xxxxxxx

 

I am writing to respond to your freedom of information request recently

received. This request has been handled under the Freedom of Information

Act 2000.

 

The response to your request is detailed below.

 

We do not use ANPR on any of our car parks and therefore do not have a

contract with this company.

[GazNicki]

Can anyone please read through this letter and let me know if this letter is OK?

 

Dear Mr Martin

I write in reference to your letter dated the 29th May 2014 which was sent from yourself and addressed to me as the registered keeper of vehicle XX00XXX.

 

As I am sure you are aware, my initial letter requested that you either write to me with confirmation that the issue has now been closed and all charges cancelled, or you present me with a POPLA code.

 

In your letter you state ‘along with our photographic evidence, all goes towards confirming the incident and actually weakens any argument you may have considered you had'. I am assuming that you haven’t personally reviewed the photographic evidence you claim to have. Please allow me to explain:- if you review the alleged photographic evidence, you will see that the vehicle in question was parked on land in which your company does not have any agreement over, and therefore have no authority to place a PCN on the vehicle.

 

In addition to your letter, I have also received a further letter from your company in the form of a ‘Final Demand’. Under the protocols of the PFoA you were obligated to send me a POPLA code as requested in my initial letter. Both letters PFoA and I consider them to be harassment. Any further communication from you, or a representative of your company other than to confirm the matter is now closed and all charges cancelled or to send me a POPLA code and clear written instructions on how to use the POPLA service, will be considered as harassment.

 

As a result of your actions, I have no other alternative than to commence my formal letter of complaint to the BPA and POPLA forthwith in relation to both letters. Please be aware that I will also be sending the BPA and POPLA a copy of this letter.

 

As previously mentioned, as the Registered Keeper of Vehicle Registration XX00XXX, I am not liable for this charge nor am I required to name the driver of the vehicle.

 

I shall repeat my initial request to you for a final time: please present me with a letter of confirmation that this issue is has been cancelled and that all charges associated with this issue have been cancelled, or present me with my unique POPLA code.

[ericsbrother]

How about writing "the land is categorically not under any contract between yourself and the landowner so your claim for monies due to a brach of contract is a deliberate attempt to gain an pecuniary advantage by deception, which is theft. Any further contact from you in this regard will be reported as a criminal matter. Now f**k off."

[ericsbrother]

basically let them shoot themselves in the foot if they want to but stop being nice now you have the evidence you need to destroy any supposed claim from these bandits. If they bother you again make a complaint to the council and point out that they are committing fraud and what are Wigan going to do about it. copy letter to local paper with some background so others can come forward.