@icelandfoods Over-stayed in iceland carpark **Cancelled**

[mikeymack2002]

Hi all my question is as follows

 

 

A family member and partner and passenger parked in the Car park of Iceland sign states no free parking for disabled drivers. Free parking for 2 hours, photo to prove this.

 

Driver overstayed by 30 mins or so. Due to the following A late add to the story, the passenger in the car a (Motability car) is disabled and had an epileptic fit and was unable to get about for nearly an hour after the fit. Hence the late return and getting the PCN. Otherwise they would have left the site within the time limits.

 

PCN issued by ANPR to the RK the company is EXCEL PARKING

 

The RK can not drive

 

PCN issued by post within 7 days (calendar) and clearly states that parking is for ONE hour only free, sign says TWO hours but was still over time regardless.

 

The signs (contract) are on boards at 7 feet high on poles as seen in picture one, I am 6ft 2" tall and the angle to get the sign in full was as displayed in the photograph. in picture one the 2 hours HAS NOT BEEN EDITED AT ALL

 

I have attached a PDF with the redacted PCN with pers removed, please can I draw your attention to page 2 where the "time limit is 1 hour" on the PCN sign says different.

 

Any advice please

 

 

MM

[f16]

Hi MM2002, They are in time on delivery. You will have to make an "appeal", which will get rejected, but will give you a POPLA code.

On the face of it you have a very good chance of "Winning" at POPLA appeal.

Others will advise on the "Legal bit "

Good luck F16

[mikeymack2002]

F16 I have looked at your threads, good advice...

 

 

I have already submitted and appeal in writing on their behalf asking for the contract or sight of, also the signs are not compliant in my view.

 

 

I also stated that I have been to the site to taken HD photographs of the site and signs, it has gone from P&D to free just recently as well, This is just plain crazy.

 

I am only just sending out the first appeal in writing asking for loads of info and for them (Excel Parking) not to take to long as I want the all important POPLA code. Letter sent RD so have proof of receipt.

 

 

One further question they use calendar days and not working days, I thought all debt was dealt with in working days? Just an observation

 

 

MM

[f16]

 

One further question they use calendar days and not working days, I thought all debt was dealt with in working days? Just an observation

 

 

MM

Appeal as the RK not as the Driver

They will reject your "appeal" but POPLA code has to be issued. So that is where you "Win".

Your right about calender days and working days. I found that odd when I got my "Invoice"

[mikeymack2002]

f16

 

I have edited the original post (paragraph two) to include some important information which I forgot to add (my fault) so please re-read op and advise again thx

 

I have also drafted a letter to send if any one can advise on the contents for me please? see attached if approved thx

 

MM

[f16]

MM 2002, IMO that additional information should assist you at the POPLA appeal, but the winner is the parking co. proving the "loss"

Other CAGGERS will form your defence.

F16

[mikeymack2002]

Thx f16

[armadillo71]

As you have already appealed, wait for the reply. It should be a cancellation of ticket or rejection of appeal. A verification code for POPLA should come with the rejection.

Do not put to much effort or worry into this as the invoice will get cancelled.

Also proof of postage at the post office is free and recommended, rather than recorded delivery.

[mikeymack2002]

I had some fun last night till 05:00 reviewing many sites and came up with the following.

 

 

1. They are issuing a PCN for breach of contract for overstaying (correct I assume)

2. They claim the driver breached the terms and conditions of Contract (correct I assume)

3. Can anyone please direct me to any site that gives advice on how a breach of Contract becomes a contravention? (totally lost here)

These three (3) points are my own observations can anyone enlighten me on these please

 

 

MM

[renegadeimp]

Ignore all that crap. Focus on whats happening now. You have appeal, so wait for their next move. If they reject the appeal, then we can provide you with a defence to send to popla

[mikeymack2002]

renegadeimp thx for the advise, this is my first ever post in regards to a POPLA pcn so was very intrigued by the contents of the letter, tbh I am not really worried until the POPLA code is issued or the PCN is cancelled before this goes that far.

 

 

I am just looking at avenues in the legality of these things. It seems there are so many different aspects of these sorts of things, just makes interesting investigative reading looking at/for how and why they try to force payment under these circumstances!

 

 

MM

[renegadeimp]

There is no legality.

 

have a read: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?420477-Seizing-Mobility-Car&p=4497648&viewfull=1#post4497648

[mikeymack2002]

renegadeimp

 

 

Thx for the reply I have already drafted my letter to the POPLA side of things as in post #5.

 

 

I have already sent a similar one to Excel as well today.

 

 

knowing hat they just want money for little work I have asked them to supply the POPLA number in the shortest time possible.

 

 

Not being a driver anymore it has surprised me just how much has changed in just 4 years, I have found this to be quite different to other posts I have commented/posted on and struggle to see how and why they continue to do so in the first place.

 

 

So a question I would ask are these "PCN's" actually legally binding?

 

 

I would assume that if they had a P&D machine and signs that could be read at face level instead of being in such a high position, in this case near 7ft. up in the air for the bottom line which is small print. I know that a ANPR monitored site is more cost effective, saving on manpower.

 

 

Which brings me nicely back to post #9

 

 

MM

[renegadeimp]

Council based ones are. Private ones arent unless they are on railway land etc AND covered by a specific bylaw. With PPC's, it doesnt matter if there is a pay and display machine. They have to prove that their loss si what is stated on the ticket. Thats why PPC's in free car parks are laughed at.

[rebel11]

Hi mikeymack2002

 

So in brief, one of the occupants of the car has a disability and had a fit, thus an overstay of in the Iceland car park, is that correct?

 

Who is the landowner?

[mikeymack2002]

This car park is offered for free parking max stay 2 hours, so no revenue gathered/lost

 

No return in xx hours, again no loss of revenue

 

So Tort of trespass? again no loss or damage to landowner.

 

So to Contract Law, breach of Contract, IS going no-where fast with that one with them, BUT when does a breach of contract become a CONTREVENTION?

The BPA codes of practise can be found here if anyone wants to read them http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/BPA_Code_of_Practice_2012_Version_1_October_2012.pdf

 

It does not. So therefore the USE by EXCEL to make a PCN look like a LEGAL document is contrary to the guidelines issued by the BPA which they MUST abide by, also a breach of contract MUST PROVIDE LOSS, the site requires not fees whatsoever, again no loss.

 

Brings me nicely to a statement I made earlier they are nothing but bullies and threatening legal action for ZERO LOSS.

 

 

MM

[mikeymack2002]

Hi mikeymack2002

 

So in brief, one of the occupants of the car has a disability and had a fit, thus an overstay of in the Iceland car park, is that correct?

 

Who is the landowner?

 

rebel11

 

Correct... The passenger is a large person hence two (2) carers, for health and safety reasons, at all times.

 

Land Owner unknown at present but looks like Iceland in the local area. (formally used as a customer car park operated by Iceland) as per Google maps in 2013. now just a general purpose car park

 

 

MM

[rebel11]

Hi mikey

 

Find out who the land owner is. Send them a letter via Recorded Delivery. Explain where the incident occurred, the date, the time.

 

Explain that an invoice has been received from ANPR. Explain that one of the passengers is disabled and has a disability covered by the Equality Act 2010. The other two passengers were there to aid the disabled passenger.

 

The disabled person suffered an epileptic fit, that's why there was an over stay at the car park. Explain that under the Equality Act 2010 that the land over should provide extra provisions just for such situations, i.e. a hut with a car park attendant, but there was no hut with a car park attendant, so nobody could be informed that extra time would be needed and an overstay would occur.

 

I believe that the xxxxxxxx land owner has breached the Equality Act 2010. I would ask xxxxxxxx to withdraw the invoice forthwith as further action is being considered.

 

 

 

 

rebel11

 

Correct... The passenger is a large person hence two (2) carers, for health and safety reasons, at all times.

 

Land Owner unknown at present but looks like Iceland in the local area. (formally used as a customer car park operated by Iceland) as per Google maps in 2013. now just a general purpose car park

 

 

MM

[mikeymack2002]

rebel11

 

 

I have all bases covered at present, have appealed the PCN will have to wait until they reject it then hit them with the letter at post #5

 

 

It's now a waiting game. Unfortunately they can be slow in as far as they can take 35 "calendar days" so will update the thread as and when this info comes along.

 

 

Just hoping that they send the POPLA number on time if not they will get letter two.

 

 

MM

[rebel11]

Hi Mike

 

O.K. hope it works out.

[ericsbrother]

Landowner not obliged to provide facilities but must make adjustments where it is reasonable to do so, however, they must have been made aware of the persons disability prior to the event.

The argument that cancelling ticket is a "reasonable adjustment" to allow for this particular circumstance is a valid one but should be added to a rerquest to see the company's disabilities policy and how Iceland makes the necessary adjustments to conform to the Eqalities Act. As it is unlikely their procedures will be up to scratch they should then be told that you expect the ticket to be cancelled.

Likewise request copy of policy from parking co and tell them that they are failing in their statutory duties and ask them what they intend to do about it. failure to respond to your request for copy of policy is reportable to the equalities commissioner as they provide a service to the public.

[mikeymack2002]

ericsbrother

 

 

thx for the input, the appeal will not form anything that the car park did/not do/supply for a disabled person. The signs state that a blue badge has no effect in this car park, with that I went around the car park, low and behold there are disabled bays? go figure! I am heading over there again tomorrow to have a really close look around it to see if there is any notice of whom the land owner actually is.

 

 

I will take HD. photos of the entire car park including any and all signs/markings to/from the entrance height of the signs etc..... having spent nearly 14 hours looking at various posts/sites this has turned into quite an exciting thing in as much as the information gleaned is brilliant. Thx all so far.

 

 

MM

[armadillo71]

ericsbrother

 

 

I am heading over there again tomorrow to have a really close look around it to see if there is any notice of whom the land owner actually is.

 

 

I will take HD. photos of the entire car park including any and all signs/markings to/from the entrance height of the signs etc..... having spent nearly 14 hours looking at various posts/sites this has turned into quite an exciting thing in as much as the information gleaned is brilliant. Thx all so far.

 

 

MM

 

You will never look at a car park in the same way again...

All of your research, time and photographs will have opened your mind and will show you how government is complicit in allowing the PPC ' industry ' to exist,( via the DVLA ).

However, none of it will be acknowledged at POPLA, as you will win on genuine pre estimate of loss, no contract with the landowner, or excel will offer no evidence...

[ericsbrother]

we all hope that the current single argument stays being a safe one for many years to come but I would still recommend using all avenues open to you, especially if it helps the public in general terms and causes the parking co's a loss in terms of time and effort. I still believe that the stores have simple methods of parking control at their disposal but they have decided to outsource the job because they dont want to be employing someone who would possibly have to handle cash.

[mikeymack2002]

Now for an update as follows.

 

 

I have heard back from Excel with the usual refusal on appeal, as was expected, but got the POPLA number but guess what its invalid, so what happens next? I have just got the number to be accepted so now will have to wait for the POPLA desion so will update as and when it comes in how long do POPLA have to make a decision please?

 

 

MM