code 21 pcn, a little advise please

[adhkar]

hi,

 

i parked in a permit holders only bay for which i have a permit and there was a pole stating this right next to my car. next to the bay i was parked in was a disabled bay which had it's own pole with notice on it but also had a parking suspension notice on it. naturally i assumed that the parking suspension was for the disabled bay as the bay that was actually suspended had a pole right next to it which was about 2 feet away from the disabled bay pole.

 

the suspension notice reads as follows:

 

I******** road

suspension of 1 car parking space

side off 129 U**** Lane

(not disabled bay)

on 13/03/2014 to 19/03/2014

during the the hours of restricted parking

for UKPN (i have no idea what that is)

contaveneing vehicles subject to removal

 

my first annoyance is that why wasn't the suspension notice on the correct pole which was 3 steps away from the disabled bay pole as i didn't even look at the disabled bay as i had no reason to i checked the board where i was parked and there was nothing untoward so i parked.

 

secondly the section i parked in, the bay runs along three car lengths maybe even four along the side of 129 U**** Lane nowhere in the notice does it state exactly where the 1 car parking space is suspended it could in my opinion be any of the 3/4 spaces. should the notice not have stated bay adjacent to disabled bay or first parking space after disabled bay to make it clear exactly which spot was suspended?

 

your help is highly appreciated as through your expertise i have won two appeals i think.

 

thank you very much.

[adhkar]

my honest thoughts are that the person putting up the notice read disabled bay on the notice and thought it was for the disabled bay, but i have no idea if they can get away with putting the notice on the wrong pole as the disabled bay is completely separate from the resident permit holder bay.

[green_and_mean]

I would just appeal on the grounds you have suggested ie sign on the wrong bay and include photos.

[adhkar]

I would just appeal on the grounds you have suggested ie sign on the wrong bay and include photos.

 

firstly thanks for your response I really appreciate

it. Do you know if the sign has to be on the correct bay or not, as I have a feeling that will say it was completely visible and that I should have looked properly.

hate the council!

[green_and_mean]

Why would you check a different bay? Even if the law isn't specific, common sense would dictate that it should be on the same pole as the restriction its suspending.

[Jamberson]

There is no strict requirement of where the sign goes, but there is a principle that it should go in a reasonable, suitable place. If there was a pole closer to the suspended bay which could have been used, then I would agree that the sign is inappropriately positioned. Even if there is not, the wording should make the bay location clear to you, so that is also grounds to appeal.

[green_and_mean]

There is rarely ever going to be a need to place the sign on a different bay as the bay being suspended must have its own sign and therefore its own pole, I don't see how they have filled their obligation to correctly sign the suspension.

[adhkar]

thank you ever so much I thought I was just being stubborn and finding excuses as to why I shouldn't pay but it seems know I'm not the only one.

 

I'll get on with writing that letter then, thank you once again

[adhkar]

me again, just got my pcn appeal back saying that they've rejected it letter goes as follows

 

you were given a penalty charge notice for parking in a bay that had been suspended. there were yellow signs saying 'warning' parking suspended no waiting, loading or unloading. bays are generally suspended to allow for road works or large delivery vehicles.

 

it is up to drivers to check on their car every day to make sure that their parking bay is not being suspended.

 

so what do i do, i still feel that i was wrongly given a pcn as the sign was not on the correct bay pole and should not have been placed on a disabled bay if it did not include that bay.

 

as the council state it is the drivers responsibility to check that their bay is not suspended which i did, i checked the correct pole for the bay which i was parking in and there was no sign or indication that, that bay was suspended.

[citizenkain]

How long did you park in this bay?

[green_and_mean]

The Council issued the PCN so its hardly likely they are going to admit they are wrong an independant adjudicator is far more likely to be understanding. Post a google street view link to the bay with more detail of the location of the signs so we can see if its worth carrying on with the appeal plus a copy of what you said in your reps.

[adhkar]

i'd have to see my original pcn to find out how long i was parked, but why would that matter anyway?

[adhkar]

i'll see if i can do that as i'm not that computer savvy but i took photos would that be ok?

[Michael Browne]

Here?:

http://goo.gl/maps/GWCGz

[adhkar]

Here?:

http://goo.gl/maps/GWCGz

 

cool how'd you do that? and yes thats correct

[adhkar]

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Parking ticket number:

Vehicle registration number:

 

 

I received a parking ticket on 18/03/2014 but I believe the ticket was wrongly issued and I would like to submit an appeal for the following reasons:

 

The alleged contravention did not occur

Quite simply, the parking attendant got it wrong and I was not parked inappropriately at the time the ticket was issued. This is due to the fact the sign indicating the bay suspension was placed on the wrong pole. Instead of placing it on the correct bay pole which was less than 2 feet away the person placed the bay suspension notice on a disabled bay pole. As I have no disabled badge there was no reason why I would have checked that pole as it had nothing to do with the space I was parking in. It is the council’s responsibility to make sure notices are placed in visible and appropriate locations.

 

Secondly the wording on the actual notice is so unclear as to which spot exactly was suspended as there are 4 car parking spaces by the side off 129 U**** Lane and the notice just states 1 parking space . Please tell me how a road user is able to tell which of the 4 spaces is the one which is suspended. The actual wording of the suspension notice is as follows:

 

Ismalia road

Suspension of 1 car parking space

Side off 129 U**** Lane

(not disabled bay)

On 13/03/2014 to 19/03/2014

During the hours of restricted parking

For UKPN

Contravening vehicles subject to removal

 

 

 

 

As you can see for yourself there is no indication to say which is the actual suspended notice other than it states not the disabled bay, but for some reason beyond my understanding the notice was placed on the disabled bay pole. Anyone that saw the notice would have thought that it applied to the disabled bay. I am attaching photos to prove how close the poles were as there is no excuse for placing the notice on a pole that was not suspended other than to confuse drivers, hoping that they would park wrongly creating extra revenue for the council.

 

 

I drive legally and park legally and always check the pole corresponding to my parking space which I did on this occasion too but due to the lack of attention of one of your employees I am faced with a huge fine which I should not have been given in the first place. I am not stupid and I have GSN permit had the notice been displayed in the correct place I would have parked further down the road as I have no reason to park and wilfully get a PCN.

 

Please in future teach your staff how to place suspension notices correctly and to actually read them properly before placing so as not to give drivers undue stress.

 

 

I am confident that my point has been made and that the person dealing with this appeal will agree with me that no contravention has taken place hence the PCN is invalid.

 

 

Please see attached photographic evidence which proves that the poles were less than 2 feet apart and that there are at least 4 parking spaces within the same bay, and that the notice nowhere states which is the actual 1 parking space which is suspended.

 

Yours Faithfully

[adhkar]

as you can see those poles are very close but as it's a one way and my parking space is after the disabled bay pole i looked at my pole and saw there was no restrictions on the pole advertised hence i parked and carried on with what i needed to do. if i remember correctly there was a van parked in the disabled bay anyway which would have blocked my view of the notice but i can't prove that hence i haven't mentioned it in my appeal

Edited May 17, 2014 by adhkar

[citizenkain]

the reason I asked how long you parked there was in case you left your car there for several days and they've added the bay you were in to the suspension while you've been gone.

[adhkar]

oh no I parked there for about two hours

[Jamberson]

In this case, the parking bay was several car lengths long.

 

Firstly, I am not certain that a part of a bay can be suspended in this way - although logically I would think it is possible. But then the sign would have to be clear as to which section of the bay is off limits. As it says "1 car parking space", it's only a single car's length which is out of bounds, so where is it? The sign says "Side off 129 U**** Lane". I presume this should be Side OF 129 Upton Lane?

 

The side of that premises stretched at least two car lengths - so as far as I cam concerned, as a motorist, I can park in one place, not in another, and I don't actually know which is which.

 

Therefore, I would argue that the sign does not adequately convey the location of the restriction. It's ambiguous.

 

The fact that it was on the other pole compounds the problem, as the council cannot argue that it's the section of the bay next to the notice - the notice isn't next to the suspended bay at all.

[adhkar]

thank you jamberson, do I just wait for notice to owner now? as I'm quite certain that it's the council's fault for not placing the notice in the correct bay and then not wording it correctly. there's just no rreason to place a suspension notice in a bay which it has nothing to do with

[Jamberson]

Yes, if you want to appeal further you will need to wait for the NTO. Meantime, someone may be able to give you more concrete info on the bay suspension process. My view is that the sign is inadequate, but that's just my take on it. Nevertheless, if it were me I would fight on.

 

By the way, can I suggest that if you do proceed with the appeal, that you post your wording on here before sending it off, so someone can check over it first. Your previous letter wasn't that great to be honest, although it did contain the main points.

[adhkar]

cool no problem, will do so.

[adhkar]

hi, just received my NTO any help on how to move forward from here would be much appreciated.

[adhkar]

I think the main points I want to out line is why the notice was placed in a bay that was not suspended, unless the person placing the sign was also confused as to which bay was the suspended one.

 

second the wording is not clear enough to state which bay it is that is suspended as it doesn't point out bay directly after disabled bay etc it just says one parking space on the side of a house that has space for three cars to park not including the disabled bay.