Long term casual worker and sending of P45

[resources]

I would like to say that this new thread concerns a different zero hours contract and a different employer that this of September. Therefore this new thread raises different issue. I invite you to compare both threads and you will see the difference.

 

I cannot tell you how the first case ended because of confidentiality issue.

 

Contrary to what Sangie595 says the terms of zero hours contracts are actually not quite well determined in law because it is well know that ‘zero-hours contract’ do not have a specific meaning in law because there is no statutory definition of them. Hence all depends of the terms agreed by the parties so if an employer wants to withdraw an offer of work which has already been accepted by the casual worker I think that there should be in the contract a clause giving him this rights It is why I need you help to have confirmation of this fact

 

Sangie595 says also that regardless of any type of contract, an employer has the right to dismiss with immediate effect in the first month whatesoever the offered contract consists of”

 

I would be grateful to Sangie595 if he quotes which law says this because according to me the one month service concerns only the notice issue

[sangie5952]

She will not be providing you with information which is freely available anywhere on the internet

because she is not interested in helping you with your homework.

 

She is simply ensuring that other readers are not lead astray by ridiculous claims like "you won the last one but can't tell anyone how".

 

What you think there should be has no relevance in law.

 

I repeat - if, and I sincerely doubt this,

there is any veracity at all in your accounts,

your problem is not employment law.

 

It is why you are always being finished within days.

[resources]

1.

You say that the information is available in the Internet but I have looked for it but I did not find it. So it will be good if you or someone else provide it to me. Until this has been done I carry on thinking that the one month service concerns only the issue of whether or not the employer has to give at least one week notice

 

2.

I did not win last case nor I lost it but all this is confidential

 

3.

If I am always finished within days as you say maybe it is because there is ‘a difference’ between me and the others and I am not responsible for this I born like this but this is also confidential.

 

4.

More importantly the first part of my thread is about the issue of whether or not an employer needs to have in the zero hours contract a clause which says that he reserves the right to withdraw any offer of work if he wants to withdraw an offer of work even if it has already been accepted by the casual worker.

 

However another issue comes before to which I make reference in the second part of my thread which is about the issue of ‘offer’ and of ‘acceptance’. For the reason that it is important to know what has exactly been offered to me by my employer and has been accepted by me? Is it one hour of work, one day of work or two weeks of work i.e. the entire project because if it is one hour or one day of work my employer could not be in breach of contract because he removed me from the project at the end of the first day ?

Edited January 15, 2017 by honeybee13
Paras.

[Emmzzi]

What are you going to do with this information even if you get it? Zero hours is a "like it or lump it" employment deal; you have no power, and I doubt you can afford a lawyer if you are in this kind of work.

 

Get a new job, concentrate on keeping it and being employable. Think about why you don't get asked to do as many hours as others, and look at how they are at work. See what you can learn.

[sangie5952]

1.

You say that the information is available in the Internet but I have looked for it but I did not find it. So it will be good if you or someone else provide it to me. Until this has been done I carry on thinking that the one month service concerns only the issue of whether or not the employer has to give at least one week notice

 

2.

I did not win last case nor I lost it but all this is confidential

 

3.

If I am always finished within days as you say maybe it is because there is ‘a difference’ between me and the others and I am not responsible for this I born like this but this is also confidential.

 

4.

More importantly the first part of my thread is about the issue of whether or not an employer needs to have in the zero hours contract a clause which says that he reserves the right to withdraw any offer of work if he wants to withdraw an offer of work even if it has already been accepted by the casual worker.

 

However another issue comes before to which I make reference in the second part of my thread which is about the issue of ‘offer’ and of ‘acceptance’. For the reason that it is important to know what has exactly been offered to me by my employer and has been accepted by me? Is it one hour of work, one day of work or two weeks of work i.e. the entire project because if it is one hour or one day of work my employer could not be in breach of contract because he removed me from the project at the end of the first day ?

 

1. If you are unable to use Google then you are unable to construct a legal argument. Thinking something doesn't make it true.

 

2. If you didn't win it you lost it.

 

3. If you were born to lose jobs within hours of starting then that is an odd genetic abnormality. Could you provide a link to this condition? Otherwise, and I see the evidence over these two threads, the fact is that it is actually your problem that you cannot accept what others tell you. It is a problem if you keep losing jobs, and it is certainly your problem and no one else's.

 

4. You have been given the answer several times. You simply don't want to accept it so you continue to ask the same question.

[ericsbrother]

your seem to have a recurring problem with zero hours contracts and fail to understand their meaning. You also ahve a problem with employment law, contract law, housing law etc etc.

You also seem to be hammering on about the same issues as your last posting, get over yourself and join the real world.

[resources]

1.

I would like to tell to Sangie595 that in a forum for a question of clarity it is the member who put forward a law which has to prove that this law exists

 

2.

I would like to tell to Sangie595 that we can have lost a case only if the case went to court but this as I say is confidential and outside the scope of this new thread

 

3.

I would like to say to Sangie595 that the fact we have 'a difference' does not means that we have a odd genetic abnormality and as I say it is confidential and outside the scope of this new thread

 

4.

You keep making reference to my old threads but this is wrong because the topics of my old threads have nothing to do with the new issues raised by my new thread. It is why Sangie595 wrongly says that you have already replied to my queries and I keep asking the same questions. The reality is that you have not yet replied to the important new issues raised in the two parts of my new thread

[BazzaS]

1, 2, 3, and 4: nobody owes you a reply.

People can choose to reply (or based on your replies: not).

 

You allude to a personality issue (or Aspergers, or whatever) that means you don't last long in employment. Perhaps that is also why you don't get the replies you seek.

 

If you have a friend who helps you understand situations where you seem perplexed by people's responses: get them to look over this (& the other) thread(s).

 

The world won't change to accommodate you, so you'll have to find ways to cope with it, or you'll keep facing the same issues.

So, for example, find project work where you can deliver a specific aspect to a defined specification that you can achieve, and that you'll not need a supervisor : so you can't disagree with them!.

[resources]

1.

Yes nobody owe me a reply but if someone replies it will be good that he/she substantiates the law he/she puts forward for the sake of the discussion and for the good of all users of this forum specially that my new thread raises important issues which could be useful to the numerous people who are in zero hours contracts.

 

2.

Concerning ‘my difference’ it is a physical difference and not a psychological one. For the job that I do this difference does not matter a lot and it does not prevent me from doing my job like the others but some supervisors are prejudiced and do not like people with ‘a difference’ but I cannot explain to you too much what this difference is because this will force me to reveal in which field I work..etc and all this is confidential.

 

3.

I invite all of you to try to reply to the two legal issues that Part 1 and 2 of my new thread raise because they are important for the numerous people working on zero hours contracts

[BazzaS]

1. Well, when someone with "that zero hours problem" posts, AND they give the impression they'll listen to an answer, maybe they'll get one.

In the meantime,you saying "it is an important general issue" isn't persuasive, given the rest of your attitude.

2. If it is a physical issue that is irrelevant to how you behave, in a job and online here : stop behaving in a way that makes it appear like it is a psychological issue.

3. See 1!.

 

I'm now giving up on this thread.

[resources]

The reason why I think that it will be interesting you try to reply to the two legal issues raised by my new thread is because I think that there is a misconception concerning zero hours contract because anyone think that people on these contracts have no right at all and employers can get rid of them when they want. However even if people on zero hours contract have less rights that people on others kinds of contracts they do not have any rights at all and all depends of the terms of the contract and the two issues raised by my new thread show this.

[sangie5952]

This is my final response because I am wasting my time here.

 

The only person who thinks there are ANY legal issues here is you. There are NO legal issues. Nobody thinks you have any less rights. After one day in work NOBODY has the rights you are attempting to claim.

 

Finally, please do not imply that I am being discriminatory. You are the person who said that you were born with the differences that mean you cannot hold down a job. I merely asked what condition people are born with that means that they cannot hold down a job. Because I do not know of one.

 

Final response - your problem is not legal issues. Your problem is that you keep losing your job. That is what you need to address. You cannot make the world agree with you just because you think it should - here or in a job. Lose the attitude or you will never hold down employment.

[honeybee13]

1.

Yes nobody owe me a reply but if someone replies it will be good that he/she substantiates the law he/she puts forward for the sake of the discussion and for the good of all users of this forum specially that my new thread raises important issues which could be useful to the numerous people who are in zero hours contracts.

 

2.

Concerning ‘my difference’ it is a physical difference and not a psychological one. For the job that I do this difference does not matter a lot and it does not prevent me from doing my job like the others but some supervisors are prejudiced and do not like people with ‘a difference’ but I cannot explain to you too much what this difference is because this will force me to reveal in which field I work..etc and all this is confidential.

 

3.

I invite all of you to try to reply to the two legal issues that Part 1 and 2 of my new thread raise because they are important for the numerous people working on zero hours contracts

 

Unfortunately, resources, you seem to be losing advisers here because they think you aren't listening to them. I'm sorry to say this, but I've read many of your threads over the years and you seem to feel the need to pursue questions that may not be important in the scheme of things to the nth degree. Is it possible that this is how you behave at work and that the behaviour annoys supervisors who then terminate your employment?

 

I also have to say that if you believe that people on zero hours contracts need information, one important thing would be to know how your previous case turned out. But you're saying that this is confidential. I'm not sure you can have things all ways by saying that anything referring to you is confidential.

 

HB

[resources]

1.

When I say that I have not lost and not won I thought that you will understand that this means that I had an out of court settlement but its contents is confidential

 

2.

You keep making reference to my previous threads and the way I behave generally in this forum. The way I behave means only that I am resolute and it is by being resolute that we win cases

 

3.

The ‘difference’ that I have does not prevent me from holding down employment. The problem is only that some supervisors are prejudiced against people like me but experience in the past shows that I can perform like the other workers if I am treated like the other workers . The purpose of my thread is to gather enough evidence to prove to this supervisors that they are wrong. My main objective is not to be paid money by my employer but that he takes me back

 

4.

I carry on thinking that my new thread raised two important legal issues concerning the rights of people on zero hours contracts and I invite you to try to reply to them

[Emmzzi]

The purpose of my thread is to gather enough evidence to prove to this supervisors that they are wrong. My main objective is not to be paid money by my employer but that he takes me back

 

 

I carry on thinking that my new thread raised two important legal issues concerning the rights of people on zero hours contracts and I invite you to try to reply to them

 

- not gonna happen - they don't like you and think you are difficult to work with

- reject your invitation; the law is clear and needs no further great debate

 

If people with real issues appear I'll be happy to help them, but you are just a broken record with no case.

[honeybee13]

So as at post #29, you still think that you're right and the rest of us don't know what we're talking about if I read you correctly? It seems to me that your stance hasn't changed since post #1, I could be wrong.

 

HB

[honeybee13]

Apologies for the crossed posts, Emmzzi.

 

HB

[resources]

I do not say that you are right or wrong because you have not yet given me your opinion about the two legal issues raised by my new thread. I am waiting you give me your opinion so that I can reply to it and we start a constructive discussion

 

Concerning whether or not I have a stance in my previous case about a zero hours contract I succeeded to get a an out of court settlement what is evidence that I was not entirely wrong even though several members of this forum told me repeatedly that I was wrong and I did not stand a chance. It could be the same thing with this new thread but we need to look seriously into the two legal issues raised by my new thread and try to reply to them

[Emmzzi]

An out of court settlement is evidence that it is cheaper and less hassle to pay you to go away than pay a lawyer fees which the employer cannot hope to recover from someone with no money

 

Don't be fooled into thinking it is anything other than "go away" money to dispose of an irritant.

 

"We" do not "need" to look into anything. You presume too much about people's patience for your shenanigans. Pay a lawyer for a view, at least they will get something out of it.

[resources]

It was a small employer and I do not think that he would have hired a lawyer to deal with me. You should not presume that out of court settlements are done always on a commercial basis to get rid of a case at least not at a beginning of the case.

 

I carry on thinking that my new thread raised to important legal issues about clauses giving the right to employerx to withdraw offer of work even if the offer has already been accepted by the worker in the same way that my previous thread about zero hours contract raised also an important issue about contractual disciplinary procedure

[Emmzzi]

ok, afraid I am putting you on ignore now. your inability to consider any opinion other than your own is just staggering.

[resources]

In the Employment Tribunal there is rarely costs so it is very unlikely that a small employer is going to hire a lawyer who will cost him money that he will never recover. Hence he will deal at least at the beginning with the case himself and if he see that he could lose he will prefer to settle

[resources]

The way I behave in this forum and the reason why I got am out of court settlement in my last case is speculation and out of the scope of this new thread. Therefore it is better to concentrate on the two main questions raised by this new thread which are:

 

Whether the terms of my zero hours contract as I described them in my thread gives the right to my employer to withdraw an offer of work which has already been accepted by the casual worker even though contrary to other contracts there is no clause in my contract which says that the employer reserves the right to withdraw offer of work at his discretion?

 

And what has been offered to me by my employer and accepted by me: one hour work, a day work or a two-week project work?

[steampowered]

I seem to remember answering a thread some time ago on the same issue and same set of facts.

 

As you have been advised by a number of very knowledgeable posters, the default legal position is that employment can be terminated without notice during the first month of your employment.

 

You would only get around this if you had an express, contractual agreement from your employer to keep you employed for the full 2 weeks. It does not sound to me like you have this. Unless there is a specific statement in your contract which says you must be kept for the full two weeks, I think it is hopeless challenging them on this.

[resources]

1.

The thread to which you could have maybe replied before concerns a different issue which was whether or not an employer could remove from a project a casual worker for poor performance from a project without going through the contractual disciplinary procedure which says that poor performance is an offence?

 

2.

I have looked in the Internet and I found nothing which says that an employer has an automatic right to fire an employee after one month. Statute says that if an employee has not two years service he could be dismissed but this is statute and not contract law.

 

The only thing that I found about the issue of one month is a document from ACAS which says the following

 

Statutory or contractual notice period

There are two types of notice period: statutory and contractual. Statutory notice is the minimum legal notice that can be given. Employers should give the employee:

• one week's notice if the employee has been employed by the employer continuously for one month or more, but for less than two years

• two weeks' notice if the employee has been employed by the employer continuously for two years, and one additional week's notice for each further complete year of continuous employment, up to a maximum of 12 weeks. For example if an employee has worked for 5 years then they are entitled to 5 weeks' notice.

 

3.

You say

 

“You would only get around this if you had an express, contractual agreement from your employer to keep you employed for the full 2 weeks. It does not sound to me like you have this. Unless there is a specific statement in your contract which says you must be kept for the full two weeks, I think it is hopeless challenging them on this”

 

However in the contract law there is the law on ‘offer and acceptance’ which says that when an offer is made and it has been accepted it becomes binding. Therefore when my employer offered me a two-week project and I accepted it according to this law it was binding and unless there is a clause in the zero hours contract which says that my employer reserves the right to withdraw an offer of work even if it has been accepted by the casual worker it seems to me that my employer could not have removed me from the project unless I myself frustrate the contract by being myself in breach of contract because for example my poor performance