Welcome - Repo & Court

[nickprice153]

Hi,

 

I'm a newbie here, so very sorry if this is something that's been asked before.

 

Lets start at the beginning.

 

I purchased a 206CC from a dealer in April 2007 - only been a kid,

I was naïve and it was on credit FOR £6,499.

The finance was done by "WELCOME FINANCE" at 30.9% APR!

I signed the agreement for 48 months and drove my girly car away.

 

After numerous job fails and other issues, I failed to make payments and

 

in October 2009 the car was repossessed.

 

Now when the car went, I was led to believe that it would be a case of clearing the debt as such,

no court order was done and no paper work signed.

 

They simply sent a rather large fellow,

who blocked the car in on a public drive, and took it away.

 

I was told if I sign a new agreement with a different payment plan,

the car would be returned, as it was going to be kept safe In a compound.

 

It gets interested,

 

3 weeks later, the car was reported to the Police for having no insurance

and in the same spot on a public road 60 MILES away.

 

It was being used now and again by the repos son (apparently)

I found this out after the police came to me to notify me the car was uninsured.

Lucky enough, they understood and dropped it.

 

I then heard nothing, for a long time, thinking I was in the clear,

 

I received a letter from IND telling me they are taking me to court for finance agreement

(the court summons has the WRONG account number)

So I denied I owe the amount of £11,000.

 

NOW...I'm panicking.

I have dug out the old agreement & added up the amount paid over the time I had the car

(including the £2000 they go for the car at auction) this comes to over £6500!

 

When going through the old paper work,

I noticed on my agreement, it says that if I had paid £3570.80 - They CAN NOT repo the car without a court order,

 

if they do so, I am entitled to all of the money I have paid BACK.

At the date they repossessed the car, I had paid over that amount.

 

So..I'm now at the point were the Courts have summoned me to appear on the 13th May 2014.

 

Do I argue I have paid the principle back so why are they chasing someone 7 years later.

OR

Do I argue I have no idea what the credit agreement number is as it has nothing to do with me (on court summons)

OR

Do I simply explain to the courts they have taken the car without a court order,

and have shot them selves in the foot, as I would like every penny I paid back?

OR

ANY OTHER suggestions.

 

I do no doubt for one second, I was stupid to ignore this for such a time,

but we learn from mistakes and I now have a £600 Fiesta! NO CREDIT for me ever again!!

[obiter dictum]

This i believe comes under Section 90 (1)(b) and 91(a)(b) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Has a claim been issued yet?

 

I myself would do nothing until a claim form arrives as strict deadlines have to be adhered to. Why tip them off before hand about any possible defence. But that is me so wait for more suggestions first as only you can make that decision.

 

What is this court summons on the 13 may?

[nickprice153]

Hi,

 

 

Thanks for the message.

 

 

The claim form arrived and I retuned to the courts the same day explaining I disagree with the claim as the Account Number served no reference to myself. (This is Fact)

 

 

Welcome /IND applied for a fast track.... The courts in Peterborough have sent me a letter saying the hearing is May 13th at 9:45am

[obiter dictum]

Is this a Summary Judgement hearing?

[nickprice153]

Its title:

 

 

NOTICE OF ALLOCATION TO THE SMALL CLAIMS TRACK. (HEARING)

[nickprice153]

Looking this up, they are for claims £5000 and under,

 

 

does this mean they intend to claim a smaller amount?

[obiter dictum]

Small claims are 10,000 and under now, it was 5,000

[nickprice153]

Oh I see,

 

 

Still below the amount of £1150.80, but I assume its at the Judges Discretion when it comes to these things.

 

 

I have been trying to get in contact with CAB, just to gain some sound advice on whether its worth me getting a solicitor involved.

[obiter dictum]

Have you been given a full statement of account with the payments made etc

 

Have you considered a counter claim as to section 91 CCA 1974

[nickprice153]

I have,

 

 

This is how I have worked out I paid more than the sum stated.

 

 

I paid £4,569.91 up until the car was Repo'd

Then a further £1918.05 was paid off when the car was sold.

Brining the total to £6487.91 PAID

[obiter dictum]

What was the figure, a third as printed on the agreement, normally under termination

[nickprice153]

It says:

 

"REPOSESSION, YOUR RIGHTS.

If you do not keep our side of this agreement

but you have paid at least a third of the total amount payable under this agreement, that is £3570.08

the creditor may not take back the goods unless he gets a court order.

 

If he does that the goods without a court order,

you have the right to get back any money that you have paid under this agreement"

 

The figure was in a box pre calculated to be a third of the amount

[dx100uk]

welcome staff often created new agreements without the customer even knowing about them.

you need to CCA request IND.

 

and send an sar to welcome finance.

 

as for the repo [ if this is now anything to do with the agreement they are going to cort over]

then yes it was unlawful and yes everything back+equiv value of the car too under sertion 90

I would think.

 

however await the CCA request return, I bet the car is not even mentioned

 

often when customers had payment issues etc

welcome staff routinely signed new agreements on behalf of customers

and they knew nothing about it.

 

 

pers i'd get all the info FIRST before you do anything more on this.

 

you've loads of time.

 

dx

[dx100uk]

can you please type up the EXACT PoC

 

removing any pers details

 

you say you've already returned the claim form?

 

if the agreement number ind have on the claim

is NOT the one concerning the car purchase

then you need to be careful here

 

the facts of the car issue may play no part at all

unless the agreement ind are referring too SPECIFICALLY mentions the old [orginal] agreement number

 

did you actually sign this second agreement?

 

have you a copy of it?

 

dx

[nickprice153]

Hi,

 

Claim Form;

 

Particulars of claim:

The claimant claims for funds under fixed sum loan agreements etc etc.......

 

It then go's on to say

Hire Purchase account number ABC123

(this is wrong, I have the original letter with a completely different account number)

 

ARREARS BALANCE OF £8300.44 AS OF 26/6/2009

INTEREST UNDER S69 OF THE COUNTY COURT ACT 1984 AT RATE OF 8%

A YEAR FROM 26/6/09 TI 7/1/14 AND ALSO SAME INTEREST RATE UP YO DATE OF JUDGMENT OF 1.82%

 

OVER TO AMOUNT CLAIMED:

£11313.16

COURT FEE: 190

SOLS FEE: £0

TOTAL Amount: £11503.16

 

Initially my defence was;

I have no idea what account this is,

I have NO account with welcome finance under account number ABC123. (POOR I KNOW)

 

The have pushed on and the courts issued the NOTICE OF ALLOCATION TO THE SMALL CLAIMS HEARING

requesting the clamant supply a copy of the

1.Credit agreement

2.Detail statement of account

 

A week later I received

 

A copy of the credit agreement (is the true one as I have the original)

 

a black copy of the credit agreement - what does black mean?

 

A copy of the statement of Account

- PEROID OF STATEMENT 17th April - 20th Jane 14

(date of first movement 17th april being the acceptance fee of £195.00)

 

It was then when I realised when adding up the sums paid up

until the car was taken away that I have in fact paid MORE than the allocated amount.

 

NOW... on the signed credit agreement

- My original & the copy, there is NO agreement number

- how ever, I have the original confirmation of HIRE PURCHASE from Welcome

dated 28th March 2007 and the account number is actually ABC456.

 

ITS WORTH NOTING that the statement of account

shows the payments start from APRIL 2007 under account number ABC123

Edited March 15, 2014 by nickprice153

[nickprice153]

There is no mention of a second agreement what so ever,

the signed forms are clearly dated march 2007.

 

So surely they cant say there is a second agreement

with all the information provided is clearly to do with the original loan?

 

 

PLUS there was never a second agreement EVER, never, EVER made..

 

 

I'm so sorry this must be extremely confusing!

Edited March 15, 2014 by nickprice153

[dx100uk]

disregarding numbers for a mo..

 

do you hold a copy of the original agreement

that you were given at the time of sale that you have retained all this time?

 

dx

[nickprice153]

This, believe or not, I do (I'm as shocked as most)

 

 

I have ALL of the original documents.

 

I have

 

 

1. Confirmation of Hire Purchase from Welcome dated march 28th with the correct account number

 

2. Credit Agreement Signed by me and Mr Coupland on the 27th March

- With correct Agreement number (3 pages, third page showing the number)

 

The third page has NOT been sent to the courts by them.

Its as if they noticed its the only page with the Original Number.

[dx100uk]

sorry if i'm being dense here

 

so the docs IND have sent match the originals you have inc your sig on both

 

the only issue is there is no agreement number?

 

dx

[nickprice153]

That's correct,

 

 

The signed credit agreement the have sent are clearly the exact ones I have, however, there's no account number.

 

 

All of my original documents have account number ABC

Everything that have sent and referred to have account number DFG

[obiter dictum]

If the agreement IND have sent does not have the account number, then that cannot be an exact or true copy of the original to comply with the regulations

[nickprice153]

" Theoldrouge" yes, that's what the claim form has said. Is this not right if the agreement is for HPI?

[nickprice153]

If the agreement IND have sent does not have the account number, then that cannot be an exact or true copy of the original to comply with the regulations

 

 

None of the paperwork provided by IND has the original agreement number I have here. BUT they are clearly referring to the agreement we had.

[nickprice153]

too small for me to read but the claimant claims for fixed sum loan agreements?

 

 

 

 

 

yes, that's what the claim form has said. is this not correct on their part?

[obiter dictum]

If the agreement is for a fixed sum loan agreement and not HP, then the goods belong to the debtor from day 1. How can they repo the vehicle