Dwp at it again..

[Krina]

Hi, new to forum and got this from a search for help.

Mine is slightly different ( and I will post this as a new thread too, but cos of looking for this, wondering if anyone gets alerted to an old post? Not sure how it works..)

Mine was a said over payment, because I left the country and didn't disclaim, and this was in Feb 2000. Whereas I did write a letter to disclaim, but they continued to pay, and someone else took the money, knowingly and fraudulently as I truthfully was out of the country for the next 5 yrs.

The first, they said I knew about it was in 2006, when I wrote after they contacted me, to ask of this debt, whereby they told me I had run out of time to appeal, laughingly I would of, as I knew nothing of it! (I had returned to live in England in 2005) Tho I do not actually recall this communication, but my memory isn't what it was!

Anyway, 8 yrs after alleged last communication, but 14 yrs in total, they write to me at address where I have been for last 7 yrs saying I have to pay this debt of nearly 2000 pounds.

Under the freedom of Information Act, I asked for all documentation relating to this case, every letter sent, every letter returned and they said they would find it.

I also had a letter from a DCA (CCSCOLLECT) saying they were taking on the debt, within two weeks of first hearing from DWP. I delayed them with saying to not contact me again as this was still an unproven case and in dispute with DWP still. And I got a letter back saying it was indeed On Hold!

Ive recently had a letter saying I still have no right to appeal, and I should take it up with HM Courts and Tribunal Services?

Is this just white collar robbery of the poorest or is there something I can do?

Thanks.

[Krina]

Mine was a said over payment, because I left the country and didn't disclaim, and this was in Feb 2000. Whereas I did write a letter to disclaim, but they continued to pay, and someone else took the money, knowingly and fraudulently as I truthfully was out of the country for the next 5 yrs.

The first, they said I knew about it was in 2006, when I wrote after they contacted me, to ask of this debt, whereby they told me I had run out of time to appeal, laughingly I would of, as I knew nothing of it! (I had returned to live in England in 2005) Tho I do not actually recall this communication, but my memory isn't what it was!

Anyway, 8 yrs after alleged last communication, but 14 yrs in total, they write to me at address where I have been for last 7 yrs saying I have to pay this debt of nearly 2000 pounds.

Under the freedom of Information Act, I asked for all documentation relating to this case, every letter sent, every letter returned and they said they would find it. But I still do not have this paperwork.

I also had a letter from a DCA (CCSCOLLECT) saying they were taking on the debt, within two weeks of first hearing from DWP. I delayed them with saying to not contact me again as this was still an unproven case and in dispute with DWP still. And I got a letter back saying it was indeed On Hold!

Ive recently had a letter saying I still have no right to appeal, and I should take it up with HM Courts and Tribunal Services?

Is this just white collar robbery of the poorest or is there something I can do?

Thanks.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi Welcome,

 

 

You will be "out of time" for an appeal, you could try contesting on the grounds you were out of the UK.

The Welfare Reform Act that came into force in 2012 gave the DWP more powers to collect overpayments, there is no time limit applied on collection and the DWP can make deductions from current or future payments.

 

 

Can you provide any evidence of the alleged fraud?

[Krina]

Hi, thanks for reply.

The only evidence of this fraud is the fact they say this money was paid out. This is the reason I have asked for all documentation, asking where it was paid to, where was it collected from, as they admitting they know I was out of the country, that means they also know, someone else took the money? Already I have had numerous letters from various names in differing departments, is it any wonder my letter to disclaim never got through to the right department, and I feel I am now having to pay for their error, their reason saying I have to pay for this 'debt' is because they never received my letter? How on earth is that my fault? Surely they should be chasing the person, (and I know who it is) who took it knowing it didn't belong to them?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Ok, have you got a recent letter from the DWP, showing exactly which department is handling the matter?

 

 

Having dealt with quite a few of this type of case I will put some suggestions together for you.

 

 

The problem with the DWP is that so often letters concerning cases like yours are never seen by the same person so there is no continuity. I have seen 4 or more separate files for the same debt compiled by a different person each time.

[Krina]

Yes, this is the thing, the first recent communication, was from Gloucester? But sent an "original" letter dated 2000, from Plymouth. I had lived in Devon, Paignton, before the time of said overpayment. But the letters had several different address's within the same letter? I replied to all 4 address's. One I never heard back from, one wrote back to me, from Plymouth, saying they were a child support agency, and could not find anything to do with my claim, with refs Id put on letter ( My N.I number!) and suggested I contacted my local office? Im now in the Midlands!

The most recent letter, suggesting I was to go to the tribunal department was from Walsall? I live in Warwick! Each of the letters, even when at first communicating with the Gloucester office, 3 of them, all came from different names, yet all said from same office.

Again I feel, this is all to confuse matters. But, I came back from Spain to help my grandmother, cos my grandfather was dying, and died soon after, and last Xmas she had a stroke, so I have now become her official carer, and just started to receive the grand sum of £59 a week to care for her! Hence this renewed "over payment" case!

Thing is, I don't want to appeal per se, I want to dispute on the basis, that I never had this money, they know someone else did, and the fact that it was their own error in not 'receiving' this letter and trying to make me pay for it? I feel trapped by a system that is unfair and nefarious to say the least!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

DWP Debt Management in Gloucester?

 

 

I have written to the Manager of the department in Gloucester with good results, as long as you include your NI number and the references on their letters it should get attention.

 

 

Try this:

 

 

The Manager

DWP Debt Management.

Full address.

 

 

Date:

 

 

Ref: NI No.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

DWP Ref:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Sir/ Madam,

 

 

 

 

Formal Complaint:

 

 

Re: Alleged Debt/Fraud:

 

 

 

 

I refer you to correspondence regarding an alleged overpayment of xxxxxxxxxx supposedly arising (add date),please find copies of previous correspondence that the DWP seems to have disregarded or ignored.

 

 

I have stated clearly that I was not resident in the UK at the time these payments were made and had no knowledge of who collected/received these payments I enclose proof of my residence at the dates concerned.

 

 

I do not acknowledge the alleged debt and require the department to provide all data that it holds on me in accordance with a Subject Access request made under the Data Protection Act 1998 within the 40 time scale allowed by the Act.

I require the department to provide unequivocal proof that I personally received the alleged payments, if this is not possible I will consider the matter closed.

 

 

Send by recorded / signed for post and check delivery.

 

 

The department does not require the statutory fee of £10.00 for a Subject Access Request.

 

 

This should provide ALL the data that ALL the offices concerned hold, in the cases I have previously dealt with even dates of payments and the method of payment were included.

[Krina]

Hey, Thankyou, this is good, except for I cannot prove my address in Spain, as it was 14 yrs ago and I rented a privately let apartment out there. The only proof I would have was my passage through customs at the time and my return!

In one of their own letters they have accepted I was out of the country at the time, and I have asked by letter (17/2/14) under the freedom of Information of Literature (not sure if was exactly right what I asked for) for ALL relevant documentation to this case. In the hope of showing what you said, where it was paid etc..

I received a call whilst I was driving, and using my headset, but concentrating, so didn't take in where she said she was calling from, a woman told me, she was searching for this information and that she had 40 days to do so? Which was only 6th of March. Then received latest letter from Walsall saying they are unable to help me further in regards to an appeal dated 5th of March, not received until the 8th! Again the left hand not communicating with the right! Walsall, Plymouth, Gloucester and Camberley?!

They have also so far, at Glouc. refused to give me the address of Plymouth so I can write to them direct, I have asked for email, even saying, so that you cannot claim not to have received my letters, that email in todays technology is the normal? But so far, no response from Plymouth, and now nor the original office at Glouc, who first write to me. All letters I have written to them, so far I have paid for signed for delivery, to ensure they know, that I know someone is signing for them, and all have been written on my word documents and time stamped and kept of course!

It just seems unjust and somewhat unscrupulous that they say I cannot appeal, I cant appeal because of a time limit, yet they have no time limit??

(And costing me a fortune in signed for letters!) Then on top of that, more errors, the Walsall office said thankyou for my email?! Email? I wish!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Gloucester seems to be the HQ for debt management. Are you addressing your letters to a specific person?

[Krina]

Funny you should ask.. I was, until the following letters came back, each with a different name each time, and all supposedly from the same office.

I will write similarly to what you wrote for me, to Gloucester, saying it is not an appeal but a dispute, that I was told I had to wait 40 days for the information requested, is that correctly called the subject access request then, not freedom of information of literature?

I am actually moving back to Spain this year, so delay tactics wont go amiss, as then they will have to chase the real culprit for it!

Thanks for all your help so far..

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Ok, yes Subject Access request (SAR) is used to obtain "personal" data that a company or organisation holds on you. The time scale allowed by the Data Protection Act is 40 calendar days.

 

 

Happy to help!

[jadeybags]

Well, they did keep paying you after you left the country? So they want it back. Not too sure there is anything you can do about that? It doesn't matter how long it has been, pretty sure benefit matters don't ever get statute barred like other debts can.

[boloney]

Well, they did keep paying you after you left the country? So they want it back. Not too sure there is anything you can do about that? It doesn't matter how long it has been, pretty sure benefit matters don't ever get statute barred like other debts can.

OP is saying she did send the letter to them informing them of this. now the question is if it was recorded delivery so she can prove that she send something to them?

[Krina]

No they didn't keep paying 'me' .. They made the error and someone else fraudulently took it. That's my point. I don't want to appeal having to pay it back, I would pay it, if thought was my fault, as a single parent of two, I was glad of the help at the time, tho always worked. I am sure it was Family Credit in those days, which was paid for 6 months, but then it is too long ago to remember, but I always worked and had 'top ups' to help.

[Krina]

OP is saying she did send the letter to them informing them of this. now the question is if it was recorded delivery so she can prove that she send something to them?

In those days, I didn't think about having to post recorded delivery, so no.. I didn't. And because of this, it seems I will end up paying it back, tho I know who the person was who took it! My fight is going to be about them telling me, where it was paid to and who withdrew it...!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Krina you have already on thread on this subject, it's always best to keep to one thread per problem to ensure continuity of advice.

[honeybee13]

Two threads merged. Please keep to this one, Krina, duplicate threads cause confusion.

 

HB

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Two threads merged. Please keep to this one, Krina, duplicate threads cause confusion.

 

HB

Thanks HB.

[Mr.P]

In one of their own letters they have accepted I was out of the country at the time, and I have asked by letter (17/2/14) under the [Data Protection Act - Subject Access Request] for ALL relevant documentation to this case. In the hope of showing what you said, where it was paid etc..

 

If the DWP have accepted that you were out of the country for the period in question, it may be possible to get the overpayment written off as "official error". If you can get them to acknowledge having received the letter back in 2000 to close the claim, you'd be half way there.

 

Unfortunately, most records are deleted after six/seven years, so any communications with the DWP before 2007 may not be on file.

 

Are you able to identify the individual that took this money fraudulently, and have evidence to support the claim ?

If so, inform the DWP and possibly consider making a statement to the police.

[Krina]

Letter sent... now to see what comes back this time..

This is my version..

PLEASE SEND COPY TO PLYMOUTH AS I DO NOT HAVE THE ADDRESS

Ref: NI No. xxxx

 

Sir/ Madam,

 

Formal Complaint:

 

Re: Alleged Debt/Fraud:

 

 

 

 

I refer you to correspondence regarding an alleged overpayment supposedly arising 16/02/2000 – 27/06/2000, please refer to my file/account, copies of previous correspondence that the DWP seems to have disregarded or ignored.

This is not an appeal, although I find it somewhat nefarious that I cannot appeal due to a time limit, when I did not know about this ‘debt’ until the limit to appeal had ran out? Yet you have 14 years in which to claim there is in fact a debt? I should be given a time limit upon the time of finding out about this debt!

 

I have stated clearly that I was not resident in the UK at the time these payments were made and had no knowledge of who collected/received these payments at the time. I am sure as you are a government body, that you can check for my passage through customs at Malaga Airport in February 2000, and also my return some two years later, as this is the only proof I can give that I was not in the country at time of said ‘overpayment’.

 

 

I do not acknowledge the alleged debt and require the department to provide all data that it holds on me in accordance with a Subject Access Request made under the Data Protection Act 1998 within the 40 day time scale allowed by the Act. I have already asked for this, but still received a letter saying I cannot appeal? Again, I am not appealing, I am disputing that this debt is not mine.

I require the department to provide unequivocal proof that I personally received the alleged payments, if this is not possible I will consider the matter closed.

Yours sincerely

K. xxxxx

What do you think?

[Krina]

I didn't know I had.. find this a bit confusing as it is.. Apologies..

I read on this original thread that I should start a new one, after I wrote the original one.. I didn't know they merged?

Anyway, as sorted as can be now.. so wont be making any more ..

Thanks Brigadier you have been a great help.