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    • Yep it's absolutely shocking, I hope more people take them on and win and hopefully one day their charlatan scheme will crumble.    I was advised on the mediation phone call to await an email with the full write up before emailing hermes my bank details, but I'm still awaiting this email. Advised payment will be made within 14 days. 
    • well had their costs schedule today -ridiculous,   claiming over 5 hours or letter writing twice at £201 an hour -so £2000 in fees alone for that compared to our 1 claimed hour for both of us in reply!   claimed £650 for photocopying trial bundle 122 pages (and was one by admin or secretary not a £200 and hour solicitor   claiming all the hours of attending the hearing even though barrister attending the hearing on their behalf.   absolute joke, unreasonable and not capped at any fast track rates. nor the court fees claimed
    • total charges is approx £96 out of £1680   but actual amount they are claiing is £2k    
    • Part of the Hermes' business model – they sell you a delivery service then botch it and then try to deny responsibility. They sell you an insurance – and then try to renege on it but keeping the money – they then make you work for nearly 5 months to get your money – and then in the end they pay you out but they try to keep back the money you spent trying to get your money back – which is really just enforcing their so-called insurance policy. This is dishonest. It is very clearly cheating their customers. I don't believe that the senior executives don't know about it. But hey, what do they care?
    • Excellent. Well done. I'm pleased for you. Yes they always try to claw back something – to satisfy their sense of pride. The money should get to you pretty quickly – they obviously don't use Hermes to deliver it.   Thanks in advance for any donation – but wait until you get the cash before you start chucking it around!
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    • I sent in the bailiffs to the BBC. They collected £350. It made me smile.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
      • 33 replies

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I have a legal document which gives me authority to deal with any and all of my disabled son's financial affairs.

Lloyds TSB denied having seen the document but I have proof they knew about it following an unrelated incident some years earlier.

 

 

Without my knowledge or permisson they mis-sold my son various insurances, let him overdraw his account and lent him THREE loans. The second loan to pay off the first and the third loan to pay off the second.

 

 

In all, they are charging him a monthly fee for the privilege of having overdraft, charges for unauthorised overdraft, charges for the loans and other fees. He is due them anout £12,500. Due to some of his medical problems, insurance bears a loading of 75% ! (They STILL relished forcing him to take!)

 

 

After much complaining, the admitted the mis-selling and gave full refund of all the insurances and token compensation. (I got them to give another 50% after further complaints about their incompetence.)

 

 

HOWEVER, notwithstanding their admission of mis-selling, they refuse to admit the overdrafts and loans were mis-sold!

Even more astounding, the Financial Ombudsman is letting them get away with it! No wonder the net is full of allegations about The FO being corrupt ALSO!

 

Any ideas what avenue to go down to force these EVIL people to admit full responsibility?

My Member of Parliament is now involved and I intend to advertise these EVIL acts in every forum and elsewhere on the net. I will explore the possibility of contacting the press and television.

 

It is SO blatant and yet they reckon they have got away with it!

 

NO EWAY, EVIL, INCOMPETENT LLOYDS, YOU ARE GOING DOWN!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by citizenB
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Was your response from the FOS from a first tier adjudicator or an Ombudsman proper ? If the former, you can ask for your complaint to be escalated to an Ombudsman.

 

If it was from the Ombudsman then you can make a complaint to an independant assessor. See pdf below.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49687[/ATTACH]

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I have written, emailed and telephoned sixteen different contacts.

(All my calls are recorded, including a secretly videod meeting with bank manager and my son which shows the problem clearly)

My son's main problem is, he has no idea what happened. (Learning difficulty which is VERY obvious to anyone with more than two firing synapses.)

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Due to my son's problems, (he believes he is going to prison for having this debt), the issue was "escalated". It still took MANY months.

 

Original result was from adjudicator. Although in recorded phone calls, everyone agreed the issue should be straightforward, the findings were in favour of EVIL Lloyds.

 

Following my inevitable complaint about the adjudicator's opinion, the Ombudsman (eventually) upheld the EVIL opinion.

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Hi TFC

 

I would write to the CEO of Lloyds TSB stating that they have broken BCOBS principal's, Lloyds have signed up to BCOBS. The following explains what BCOBS is:-

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19511542

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?826-How-Can-BCOB-Protect-You-From-Your-Bank-s-Unfair-Treatmen

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?827-Examples-of-unfair-treament

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?849-BCOBS-Round-up-Making-your-bank-treat-you-failry

 

http://fshandbook.info/FS/html/handbook/BCOBS/Sch/5

 

Examples of principles:-

 

Customers' interests - A firm must pay due regard to the interests of its customers and treat them fairly.

Communications with clients – A firm must pay due regard to the information needs of its clients, and communicate information to them in a way which is clear, fair and not misleading.

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Can you take them to court?

More experts caggers might find a way to get them in front of a judge where they'll have no chance of winning.

What's the outstanding amount now, after they cancel the various insurances?

If it is still a large amount of money I would see a solicitor and then claim costs.

Misselling loans and insurance to a vulnerable person is so wrong at so many levels.

Shame on them!

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Hi King12345

 

Where exactly have I stated take them to court?, BCOBS are legally actionable, I've stated that the OP should write to the CEO.

 

The OP isn't going to file a claim on the back of the links I've posted.

 

Lloyds are renowned for mis-selling products to 'vulnerable' people, especially to the elderly, allegedly.

 

Can you take them to court?

More experts caggers might find a way to get them in front of a judge where they'll have no chance of winning.

What's the outstanding amount now, after they cancel the various insurances?

If it is still a large amount of money I would see a solicitor and then claim costs.

Misselling loans and insurance to a vulnerable person is so wrong at so many levels.

Shame on them!

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Hi King12345

Where exactly have I stated take them to court?, BCOBS are legally actionable, I've stated that the OP should write to the CEO ?

 

The OP isn't going to file a claim on the back of the links I've posted.

 

Lloyds are renowned for mis-selling products to 'vulnerable' people, especially to the elderly, allegedly.

You didn't state for the op to take them to court, that's why I put a question mark at the end of my first line.

I then went to say that more expert caggers could find a way to take them in front of a judge.

The op apparently wrote to many people already and possibly to the ceo (please op confirm), that's why I asked if she could take them to court.

You probably got confused with another post.

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Hi King12345

 

No probs, I miss read your post, apologies. I think they have breached BCOBS, the bank has to have due regards to the interest of it's customers, not to sell products when the customer isn't in a position to understand the product or what they are agreeing too.

 

I would also get disability organizations involved, send them the story.

 

You didn't state for the op to take them to court, that's why I put a question mark at the end of my first line.

I then went to say that more expert caggers could find a way to take them in front of a judge.

The op apparently wrote to many people already and possibly to the ceo (please op confirm), that's why I asked if she could take them to court.

You probably got confused with another post.

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Hi TFC

 

I would write to the CEO of Lloyds TSB stating that they have broken BCOBS principal's, Lloyds have signed up to BCOBS. The following explains what BCOBS is:-

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19511542

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?826-How-Can-BCOB-Protect-You-From-Your-Bank-s-Unfair-Treatmen

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?827-Examples-of-unfair-treament

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?849-BCOBS-Round-up-Making-your-bank-treat-you-failry

 

http://fshandbook.info/FS/html/handbook/BCOBS/Sch/5

 

Examples of principles:-

 

Customers' interests - A firm must pay due regard to the interests of its customers and treat them fairly.

 

 

Communications with clients – A firm must pay due regard to the information needs of its clients, and communicate information to them in a way which is clear, fair and not misleading.

 

I will write to CEO. Naturally, there will a negative response but I will, at least have that evidience to add to that which may be submitted at a later date.

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Thanks for responses.

My Member of Parliament is now involved although I hold little hope of him doing any good.

My reluctance to take them to court is because I do not wish to apply more stress to my son. Although the case was "fast tracked" because of his prolems, it still took many months to reach the wrong conclusion and he was, and is, under the continuous belief he will go to prison because of this!

One of the things which puzzles me is, since they admit mis-selling insurances (they detail they reailse he would not be aware of what he was signing), how can they say the loans and overdrafts were NOT mis-sold?

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Hi TFC

 

Sounds logical, their is no logic to the decisions the FOS come up with. Have they given a reason for this?

 

Thanks for responses.

My Member of Parliament is now involved although I hold little hope of him doing any good.

My reluctance to take them to court is because I do not wish to apply more stress to my son. Although the case was "fast tracked" because of his prolems, it still took many months to reach the wrong conclusion and he was, and is, under the continuous belief he will go to prison because of this!

One of the things which puzzles me is, since they admit mis-selling insurances (they detail they reailse he would not be aware of what he was signing), how can they say the loans and overdrafts were NOT mis-sold?

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Hi TFC

 

Sounds logical, their is no logic to the decisions the FOS come up with. Have they given a reason for this?

 

There is the usual meaningless, long-winded report but the essence of it states that the bank were ok to give my son loans and overdraft because the should not discriminate against a disabled person!

 

They ignore the fact they had no right whatsoever to even DISCUSS such matters with my son as I am (supposedly!) responsible for "any and all" his financial transactions.

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Hi TFC

 

Send a letter off to the CEO. Lets see what he has to say. Enclose a copy of your authority.

Let us know how you get on.

 

There is the usual meaningless, long-winded report but the essence of it states that the bank were ok to give my son loans and overdraft because the should not discriminate against a disabled person!

 

They ignore the fact they had no right whatsoever to even DISCUSS such matters with my son as I am (supposedly!) responsible for "any and all" his financial transactions.

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If you are serious about taking this further you need to have a comprehensive account of all evidence and communication you have received. You might want to seek the help of a professional to help you with this - I'm not being offensive but from the way you write and the emotive language you use in your posts you are clouding the real issues and there are a number of things which don't presently make sense/haven't been clarified yet.

 

I personally would be interested to see the decision letter that the actual ombudsman gave you if you have a scanned copy.

 

Additionally, just so we are clear, your son has account(s) in his own name? And what type of authority do you hold to manage his financial affairs and look after his accounts? Third party mandate, power of attorney etc.

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Thank you for your response.

I have sought the advice of a lawyer and a member of Citizens Advice. They both say just to walk away from the account since the bank must be fully aware they are in the wrong and would never pursue. However, I do not wish my son to be placed in such a position.

The letter from the FO upholds the decision of the adjudicator, mainly under the excuse that the bank should not discriminate when dealing with disabled people.

Since I received the bank's assurances (following an earlier unrelated complaint) that they recognised my jurisdiction and he could never again overdraw, the account remained in his name and he was able to deposit and withdraw without my supervision.

 

The document is perfectly legal although not registered POA.

 

Incidently, my vernacular is deliberately adjusted to conform to the majority of posts I quickly scanned. I type extremely quickly and do not feel the need to spell check under these circumstances. The allusions, and other, regarding my presentation is mildly amusing. I conduct myself differently under the appropriate circumstances and my IQ of 127 is not really relevant to the issues in hand.

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I agree walking away doesn't seem the right thing to do regardless of whether they intend to persue or not.

 

When you say that the bank assured you that the account could not be overdrawn what action did they take? Change the type of account? What type of account did he have before/after? Change the type of card?

 

Also, have you reviewed the statements? What took the account overdrawn in the first place and subsequently?

 

What exactly is this legal document?

 

Have you sent a SAR to the bank to see what records they hold about your son. There may be some notes about the sale of the insurances and loans.

 

I'm not doubting your intelligence or ability to communicate at all. At most I suggested that emotion can interfere with your judgement and perhaps communicating the issue to us - and that would be understandable given the circumstances.

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Subsequent to the unrelated, earlier complaint in 2010 (son's account accidently overdrawn), the bank assured me he would not overdraw again. Current account; remained as such.

 

I have been issued with statements. They started to go overdrawn when the second, untenable loan was mis-sold and my son was unable to exist on monthly remaining balance.

 

The document is simply a declaration, signed by my son, which (I am advised by a lawyer) is as legal as a POA.

 

I have been supplied with all relevant data. A SAR is not required.

 

I fully appreciate the "rant" aspect of my posts may displease some. I intended to provoke response. If you care to check my postings on Lloyds Facebook site, you will observe I am capable of even more extreme behaviour.

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You say that the FOS have decided to go with not discriminating against a disabled person. However, I wonder if you might want to reinforce your position that your son is disabled in a way that makes him incapable of making a decision of this kind and THAT is why you have the authority to act on his behalf.

 

I would suggest that the FOS, or in this case, one particular adjudicator is being disingenuous !

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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So he has a classic account as opposed to the basic cash account. It's impossible for them to prevent any type of account going overdrawn in certain situations (this applies to ALL current accounts even at other banks).

 

What makes the loans mis-sold? Do you have the evidence to prove this (e.g. any sales notes)

What makes the insurances mis-sold? - precisely what insurances were they?

 

With Lloyds the account holder can only authorise somebody else to operate their account by signing a third party mandate or through a power of attorney. A bank doesn't have to accept any old declaration which you just wrote up. There are proper avenues to go down for issues like this. And they will not just give you full overriding access over the account because the idea isn't to relinquish power from the account holder.

 

I don't care about any rant, whether you want to provoke a response or what you are capable of. You came here looking for advice about where to go next to solve your issue - we only need facts to assist with that.

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If you are going to argue that his learning disability affects his mental capacity and ability to make decisions then he is also not capable of signing away his rights over to you (whether through a power of attorney or your made up document).

 

If this is the case you can be appointed a deputy to manage your sons affairs by the Court of Protection. I believe the Office of the Public Guardian can give advice about what options may be appropriate for your situation.

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  • 2 months later...

Thanks for all the comments but, as we are not achieving anything, I only mention my intentions to demonstate outside Lloyds in Hanover Street, Edinburgh. I have spoken with the police regarding getting myslef arrested to draw attention to the case.

 

Check out FaceBook page, "THE PEOPLE AGAINST LLOYDS".

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Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 1689 days.

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If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

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