Business holding my goods to ransom

[crantinope]

Hi,

 

Not really sure if in the right section, but I am sure someone will move it if not:

 

So,

I have an old bike frame and sent it away to a company to be resprayed in the original colours and also for them to recreate some grahics/stickers and put these on.

In as short a time line as possible, i will note the main points. Bear in mind the communication was almost all one way, with hardly any replies coming back to me, but they had been highly recommended for their work and I have seen a lot of it and it was what I wanted.

I and they had no problems with recreating the colours I wanted, but the stumbling block seemed to be the graphics. I eventually identified the correct style, and in both email and telephone conversation I advised on the size and positioning of them on the frame.

The situation was then left via my emai communication in August 2013 that I would wait for a "mock up" of the graphics on the frame to approve them before spraying, application and lacquering over the top.

Come November I called to ask why there was such a delay in me receiving a mock up for approval and after a strained conversation, it was left with me verbally confirming that I would wait for the mock up to be sent to me as the other person had been unsure of the colouring of the lettering (all they had to do was ring or ask in the 3 months it took before I called them again).

Fast forward to February 2014,and I get a call letting me know that the job was "all done".

This took me by complete surprise because I was still waiting for some kind of email that I could "approve" before moving forward.

To boil the last part down, I said I was unhappy that he had gone ahead and completed the job basically to his own design and he said it was my fault for not providing the correct proofs for the stickers (I was relying on him to do this for me as he was meant to be recreating them!!!)

He basically told me to pay (for a job done incorrectly) or he will keep my bike frame to "showcase" his companies work.

He was impervious to me telling him that he had got it wrong and would do nothing about it unless I paid extra over and above the actual cost thus far (I have not paid anything so far).

I was going to pay but then I asked for some more pictures of the finished work because I only had the one and a few other parts had been done as well and I wanted to confirm the quality.

I then received an email last night (7th March) telling me the frame was going to be stripped back to bare metal and sent back to me as A. Someone else could do the job and B. He didn't want my money.

When I replied this morning and said that was OK with me and to let me know when he has ready to send the parts back and to let me know the postage cost, he replied by telling me that if I thought I was getting my frame back then "I was wrong" and he thought "I would have liked that option" and it was now "your move"

Has anyone got any advice as to whom I should contact because it isn't going to get sorted amicably clearly

[renegadeimp]

Send him a lba detailing everything and what you want in order to be rectified. Give him a set time and follow it up with mcol.

 

Note. Only do this if you have full ecidence of what happened and WILL follow through with court action.

 

Technically it is theft but its a grey area which is why you need to exhaust the civil route first.

[crantinope]

...................

Edited March 8, 2014 by crantinope
double post

[crantinope]

Send him a lba detailing everything and what you want in order to be rectified. Give him a set time and follow it up with mcol.

 

Note. Only do this if you have full ecidence of what happened and WILL follow through with court action.

 

Technically it is theft but its a grey area which is why you need to exhaust the civil route first.

 

Well I do have my email to him requesting the "mock up" for me to view and agree, I don't have any email confirming this information because it was never sent to me. Regarding the placement and size, this was done over the phone and the example I referred to regarding what I wanted was another bike that he had done previously and had the graphics on file. I then sent a follow up email to him confirming the phone call and awaiting the email. At the end of the day, there needs to be some kind of communication where I can see what is to be done and agree it. This was never sent to me, and that is why I am not happy

I only want my items back in a state where they can be sent to another company to do the job properly. This would require all the paintwork applied being removed and only bare metal remaiing. Is this something that the LBA covers?

Edited March 8, 2014 by crantinope
additional info

[ericsbrother]

You can copy your phone records to show what day and time you called them. As for stripping the frame back, that would depend on the condition it was sent in as it should be the same. If you do intend to get a new paint job elsewhere then it doesnt really matter but if you get a rusty/damaged frame that is unusable then it would be criminal damage to do such a thing (but an absolute sod getting the police interested) so I would be saying that any loss of integrity to the frame will result in a claim for the damage done by stripping the paint off.

As stated, if you dont get your frame back you must follow this up otherwise it will have been utterly pointless making threats of legal action where you have no intention of carrying them out.

[slick132]

Hi Crantinope,

 

In your favour, you have the email of 7th March which confirms the intention to strip and return the frame to you. I think this is key to your case.

 

Work out if you are dealing with the individual or the business as this will be important if you take court action. Name the wrong Defendant and your efforts will be wasted.

 

As suggested, give the guy 14 days to arrange to have the frame returned to you in good condition, painted or stripped, in accordance with his email. Keep the rest of the summary as brief as possible.

 

I would do this in writing, sent by RM Signed For delivery.

 

If you want to post a draft here first, feel free.

 

[crantinope]

Hi Crantinope,

 

In your favour, you have the email of 7th March which confirms the intention to strip and return the frame to you. I think this is key to your case.

 

Work out if you are dealing with the individual or the business as this will be important if you take court action. Name the wrong Defendant and your efforts will be wasted.

 

As suggested, give the guy 14 days to arrange to have the frame returned to you in good condition, painted or stripped, in accordance with his email. Keep the rest of the summary as brief as possible.

 

I would do this in writing, sent by RM Signed For delivery.

 

If you want to post a draft here first, feel free.

 

 

Thanks.

I am a bit confused about the person/business angle TBH. I initially contacted the website sales email address as it is a website offering the services I required. Obviously I have been dealing with a single individual (who does actually run the business), but it is the number on the website that I call when I needed contact. Does this mean I am holding the business responsible? With regards to the letter, do I title it as a LBA and just include what I was expecting the outcome of our agreement to be, what has actually happened to make me unhappy, and what I now expect as a resolution. i.e the return of my property in an undamaged state as was initially offered but then withdrawn.

 

Cheers.......

[slick132]

Hi Crantinope,

 

When you have exchanged emails with the guy, how has he signed off the emails exactly.

 

Do you know the guys name and the business name if he uses one.

 

The letter will be just a simple, concise letter setting out the basics of what you expected, agreed, etc. And what happened. And what you need now to resolve the matter.

 

If he fails to do what you want, then you'll send a LBA after 14 days, giving a final 14 days to resolve.

 

[crantinope]

Hi Crantinope,

 

When you have exchanged emails with the guy, how has he signed off the emails exactly.

 

Do you know the guys name and the business name if he uses one.

 

The letter will be just a simple, concise letter setting out the basics of what you expected, agreed, etc. And what happened. And what you need now to resolve the matter.

 

If he fails to do what you want, then you'll send a LBA after 14 days, giving a final 14 days to resolve.

 

 

Is this any good? It seems to waffle a little. Do I need to mention anything else?, or do I need to start again?

 

Business address line 1

Business address line 2

Business address line 3

Business address line 4

Business address line 5

 

 

 

 

 

 

For the attention of John Smith, today’s date

 

I am writing this letter to confirm the current situation of my complaint as I see it. You have completed a project for me in respect of a frame respray and restoration. Unfortunately, I am not happy with the completed work for the following reason(s):

• The decal placements, size and positioning were applied to the frame without my prior agreement via phone call, email or letter.

• We had spoken previously in both August and November 2013 by telephone about the size and positioning of the decals and I had backed this up with an email request for a “Mock up” of the frame to this effect. I was of the opinion that you understood the requirements and would contact me to finalise this.

• Instead, no contact was made and a decision was made (not by me) to go ahead with the completion of the project.

 

You have refused my request for the work to be rectified without further financial cost to myself, as you are of the opinion I provided you with no “proofs” of the decals to be used or indeed their size. I refer back to the phone calls of August and November where I asked you to replicate the size and positioning of the decals used for the Blue/Yellow Pioneer, but using the font we had agreed, namely Mistral.

I am seeking the return of my property that you are holding, namely a Raleigh frame & fork, a handlebar stem and a bottle cage. I refer you to your email of Friday 7th March, where you advised me that you would be returning my items once they had been stripped back to bare metal.

This is now the only course of action that I am willing to accept as you have failed to deal either sympathetically or effectively with my complaint. I expect to receive a reply to this communication by 14 days from the date on this letter

 

Yours sincerely

My name

[slick132]

For the attention of John Smith, today’s date

 

I am writing this letter to confirm the current situation of my complaint as I see it. You have completed a project for me in respect of a frame respray and restoration. Unfortunately, I am not happy with the completed work for the following reason(s):

 

• The decal placements, size and positioning were applied to the frame without my prior agreement via phone call, email or letter.

• We had spoken previously in both August and November 2013 by telephone about the size and positioning of the decals and I had backed this up with an email request for a “Mock up” of the frame to this effect. I was of the opinion that you understood the requirements and would contact me to finalise this.

* I waited 3 months for the mock up to be sent to me for approval as agreed.

• Instead, no contact was made and a decision was made (not by me) to go ahead with the completion of the project.

 

You have refused my request for the work to be rectified without further financial cost to myself, as you are of the opinion I provided you with no “proofs” of the decals to be used or indeed their size. I refer back to the phone calls of August and November where I asked you to replicate the size and positioning of the decals used for the Blue/Yellow Pioneer, but using the font we had agreed, namely Mistral.

 

I now require the return of my property that you are holding, namely a Raleigh frame & fork, a handlebar stem and a bottle cage. I refer you to your email of Friday 7th March, where you advised me that you would be returning my items once they had been stripped back to bare metal. I am not bothered whether you strip the frame back to bare metal or leave it as it is. In any event, I will have to have the work done to an agreed specification by another workshop.

 

This is now the only course of action that I am willing to accept as you have failed to deal either sympathetically or effectively with my complaint.

 

Please confirm within 14 days how you intend to return my frame, etc to me. I will pay for the cost of carriage.

 

If you fail to return my property to me in good condition, I will take county court action for either the return of the property or for compensation for it's value.

 

Yours faithfully,

[crantinope]

Thanks very much for the help, much appreciated. I got most of it right

[slick132]

Yes, you did.

 

Have you checked on whether you should pursue the individual in his own name, as opposed to using the business or trading name.

 

I suggest using the individual's name may be safest, if that's how he's communicated with you in the emails.

 

Edited March 13, 2014 by slick132
added 2nd para

[crantinope]

Have you checked on whether you should pursue the individual in his own name, as opposed to using the business or trading name.

 

I suggest using the individual's name may be safest, if that's how he's communicated with you in the emails.

 

Still not sure, here is a link to the website I contacted (the email address on the website anyway)and any subsequent phone call were made to the number on the website too:

The second link is what I found on "company check". Could you just explain the difference between pursuing the individual or the company?.

Oh, and as an update, I sent the letter and received no reply. I have not got cold feet, I am just waiting for the company I work for to supply hard copies of the conversations I had in August and November where we discussed the options and agreed the course of action (I forgot that we record all incoming/outgoing calls and that is the phone I used).

 

http://www.graphicshack.co.uk/

 

http://companycheck.co.uk/director/915455795

[slick132]

As the Company Check site suggests the Ltd Co is dissolved, I suggest you address your next letter (which will be your LBA) to Mr G A t/a Graphic Shack.

 

Send the same letter as before but, this time, use a heading of Letter Before Action.

 

[crantinope]

As the Company Check site suggests the Ltd Co is dissolved, I suggest you address your next letter (which will be your LBA) to Mr G A t/a Graphic Shack.

 

Send the same letter as before but, this time, use a heading of Letter Before Action.

 

 

Ok, so it has got to MCOL time I suppose. The question is, do I have anything to worry about?. I have copies of emails requesting a view of a mock up before signing off, I have the infamous email telling me I was going to get my frame back fully stripped to bare metal, and I also (finally) have digital copies of the calls last August and November, and on both occasions I requested/said I would await the "mock up" which never materialised.

I have tried to read up on the MCOL and the protocol, and clearly the first step is to register the claim and then worry about the evidence when it is requested.

Anything else I should know, read???

 

Cheers......Nick

[slick132]

Hi Crantinope,

 

I suggest you draft your POC and post a copy here for checking over. It needs to be a very brief summary of events, and what you now require from the Defendant. As you say, don't include any evidence at this stage.

 

Are you reasonably sure of the title being the right one to use, ie Mr G A t/a Graphic Shack.

 

[crantinope]

Hi Crantinope,

I suggest you draft your POC and post a copy here for checking over.

I shall get my thinking cap on.

Are you reasonably sure of the title being the right one to use, ie Mr G A t/a Graphic Shack.

That is definitely his name, and the business address is the only address I have for him, so I presume I would name him and not the business as the defendant, with the business address as the correspondence address. Correct?

[slick132]

I'd use Mr G A t/a Graphic Shack unless you have anything better.