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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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HSBC charging and treatment of customer


Vampyra
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Had a VERY upsetting afternoon.

 

I suffer from Hypothyroidism and Hashimoto's Disease. Quite common but only been diagnosed a short time and still trying to get medication correct. I was a Carer for my mum for 10 years but I have now lost my home due to her having to go into a home. I am currently with friends and on benefits. I have many problems which I won't go into here.

 

Because of this, last Jan or Feb, by luck I spoke to someone at HSBC about excessive charges which some got refunded and others didn't. He set a plan in place whereby, because of my long term situation, they were not to charge me overdraft charges. I had to phone every 3 months to reset the plan as they could only do it at 3 months at a time. This seemed to go well until one girl raked me over the coals asking me many questions about my expenditure and that she wanted me to cut out my spending. A few weeks later I got sent a new debit card.

 

I knew nothing about the old one being lost, as I thought so phoned the bank. To cut a long story short she had, unbeknownst to me, cancelled my debit card which was contactless and sent me a non-contactless one and on further investigation had cut my spending limit per day from £100,000 to £10,000. Now I can't afford to spend either but the customer adviser told me to complain. I did and they apologised and gave me £50 compensation for the trouble. EDIT forgot to say here, I was "punished" for being poor by having the contactless thing taken away - I couldn't really care less but it's the principle.

 

So, re-setting the plan with the bank worked well til today. It took 2 1/2 hours of them asking me very invasive questions about things I had purchased upon my account, wanting to know what was wrong with me and when I would be working again and making me feel like I was lying and probably a criminal. "You bought something from Amazon, what was that for?"

 

Do I have to go through this discriminatory behaviour every time I renew this plan? They tell me I do because for some reason they don't want to look at incoming and outgoing and see my position hasn't changed.

 

I am not a wimp but this has left me very upset and distressed. What can I do and who should I contact please?

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I have been a full time carer on benefits since 2002. I have had lots of charges with HSBC, however, they have not been charging me now since last year. Can I claim back further? I am in very dire straights and am willing to have a go, but need advice please.

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Hi Vampyra

 

You should definitely claim under 'Hardship', in the library there should be a template, it needs to be amended. But what you need to do is personalize it, also explain what Hardship your having because they taken monies off you, e.g. paying utility bills, paying for prescriptions. Also explain any 'Hardship' you've had since 2002. Have you got statements? I would say you can 6 years plus.

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I would say that you would only need to provide an Income & Expenditure form and that should be sufficient. It might be worth a formal complaint (headed as such) to their Head /Registered office and suggest that you are being treated unfairly.

 

Is your illness long term or likely to improve? If long term and unlikely to improve, it seems very unfair that they are demanding you go through this process every 3 months.

 

Did you reclaim your charges under Hardship rules and I wonder if you could claim discrimination because of your illness/disability ?

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I have merged both of your threads as they appear to be in respect of the same issue.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi vampyra

 

CitizenB is quite right, don't worry about the statements, once you send them the 'Hardship' letter, they will send you an 'Income & Expenditure' form.

 

I would say that you would only need to provide an Income & Expenditure form and that should be sufficient. It might be worth a formal complaint (headed as such) to their Head /Registered office and suggest that you are being treated unfairly.

 

Is your illness long term or likely to improve? If long term and unlikely to improve, it seems very unfair that they are demanding you go through this process every 3 months.

 

Did you reclaim your charges under Hardship rules and I wonder if you could claim discrimination because of your illness/disability ?

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Hi vampyra

 

Write to their H/O explain that you suffer from illnesses that you are trying to manage, explain that the reviews are unfair and should be held annually.

 

 

I would say that you would only need to provide an Income & Expenditure form and that should be sufficient. It might be worth a formal complaint (headed as such) to their Head /Registered office and suggest that you are being treated unfairly.

 

Is your illness long term or likely to improve? If long term and unlikely to improve, it seems very unfair that they are demanding you go through this process every 3 months.

 

Did you reclaim your charges under Hardship rules and I wonder if you could claim discrimination because of your illness/disability ?

  • Haha 1
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Thanks for your replies. No I didn't claim the charges back, this last year I have not been charged. I have paperwork for I think 2012/3 which says I paid £400 odd in charges. Goodness knows how much they charged me while I was a Carer. I know I complained sometimes and the charges were refunded but not all the time. I only joined HSBC in 2006 before that I was with Nat West.

 

If I can only go back til 2008 I would probably be getting on for close to a grand.

 

My concern is I don't think they have the right to question me as indepthly about my illness and exactly what I purchase. My account is in order yet they told me they would only give me 60 day before a review because I had made a few purchases adding up to £10 which they felt I must not make. Both my OH and aunt said they have no right to question me as long as I am not overspending each month.

 

I will eventually improve medically wise but I can't say by how much. I have a thyroid condition and an autoimmune disease which can be managed but I am still in the early days of treatment. I have been and still get very ill some days, being almost crippled.

 

I told the guys at the bank I felt discriminated against and felt their questioning meant they didn't believe me. I said I felt extremely upset with the questioning and the extended time it took to sort this out. I was left on hold 4 times at around 15-20 minutes each time.

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Sorry also forgot to say I have been on ESA for a year with another 2 years left before review. I told them this. They ignored it. One even said after I had spoken about my medication and specialist appointments; "I hope you will get to start your medication soon". I had told him I had been on my medication since last April earlier in the conversation.

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Hi vampyra

 

Firstly get your 'Hardship' letter sent off to HSBC, don't forget to mention that your on benefits. That is all you need to do to get things moving. They will send you an Income and Expenditure form to fill in. Which you need to return.

 

Secondly, send them a Formal Letter of Complaint regards your treatment, what they have said, why you think it's out of order and what you want them to do about it.

 

You could send them a SAR request, they will send you all the information on your account for the last 6 years, but you don't need that information at the moment.

Edited by rebel11
SAR - A minimum of 6 years, it could be more.
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Thank you for that.

 

I have to say they did an income and expenditure form yesterday. I will do another though. They initially told me they wanted to look at other ways of helping me and used this as a justification of how long I was left hanging on the phone.

 

Sorry to be dumb but where do I find the hardship letter? Thank you for your help.

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Hi vampyra

 

Here's the template, make sure you remove the line at the very top, also replace FSA with FCA. Delete anything your not going to send. Go through the final letter a few times just to make sure their aren't any errors.

 

Template letter to request bank charges if you are in financial hardship

 

Any questions just ask.

 

Sent it to:-

 

HSBC Bank plc

Customer Care Team

PO Box 6125

Coventry

CV3 9GW

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Just as a matter of interest - are you receiving any disability benefits ? If so, then that money is to be used to cope with your disability and not to repay debt.

 

I wonder if it might be worth you asking National Debtline to produce an I& E for you - that way HSBC would pretty much have to accept your figures !

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Thanks for your replies. No I didn't claim the charges back, this last year I have not been charged. I have paperwork for I think 2012/3 which says I paid £400 odd in charges. Goodness knows how much they charged me while I was a Carer. I know I complained sometimes and the charges were refunded but not all the time. I only joined HSBC in 2006 before that I was with Nat West.

 

If I can only go back til 2008 I would probably be getting on for close to a grand.

 

My concern is I don't think they have the right to question me as indepthly about my illness and exactly what I purchase. My account is in order yet they told me they would only give me 60 day before a review because I had made a few purchases adding up to £10 which they felt I must not make. Both my OH and aunt said they have no right to question me as long as I am not overspending each month.

 

I will eventually improve medically wise but I can't say by how much. I have a thyroid condition and an autoimmune disease which can be managed but I am still in the early days of treatment. I have been and still get very ill some days, being almost crippled.

 

I told the guys at the bank I felt discriminated against and felt their questioning meant they didn't believe me. I said I felt extremely upset with the questioning and the extended time it took to sort this out. I was left on hold 4 times at around 15-20 minutes each time.

 

There is nothing discriminatory about being asked about your purchases.

They ask those questions to investigate cases of financial hardship - think about how many people try to lie to get out of paying. A pretty extreme example: but if you can afford to pay for a new television are you really in financial hardship at the moment?

 

Also it isn't a case of reclaiming banking charges - come to the realisation that this will not be the outcome. They do not have to do this and the sooner your accept that the less unhappy you'll be in the end.

You should inform the bank about your current financial hardship and they have to look at your CURRENT situation positively. They may ask you to provide details of your income and expenditure but there is no harm in proactively providing this in the first place.

 

Just as a matter of interest - are you receiving any disability benefits ? If so, then that money is to be used to cope with your disability and not to repay debt.

 

I wonder if it might be worth you asking National Debtline to produce an I& E for you - that way HSBC would pretty much have to accept your figures !

 

Well luckily the bank charges are not even being allocated to debts in this situation.

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I meant: Well luckily the benefits are not even being allocated to debts in this situation.

 

Really? What makes you say that?

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Under section 187 of the Social Security Administration Act 1992 benefits cannot be assigned to a debt.

Benefits money get paid into a bank account - whether there is an overdraft or not - this does not constitute assignment to a debt.

 

You may recall the following government response from around 2008:

"The purpose of the Social Security Administration Act 1992 Section 187 and section 45 of the Tax Credits Act 2002 is to prevent people’s benefit money being at risk by it being assigned over to a third party in settlement of a debt. It is not intended to prohibit the application of bank charges. Bank charges are in the nature of an expense, and are incurred by the holder of the account; tax credits and benefits are payable in order to help customers meet their expenses, and as such it is legitimate for banks to deduct charges from the balance of an account held in that bank, whether the money paid into the account comes from tax credits, benefits or other sources, such as earnings."

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  • 2 weeks later...
Thank you for that. I have to say they did an income and expenditure form yesterday. I will do another though. They initially told me they wanted to look at other ways of helping me and used this as a justification of how long I was left hanging on the phone.

 

Indeed, other ways of helping that don't involve them refunding any money that they have stolen from you. They would likely rather run a proverbial marathon if it meant them hanging on to a tenner. Filling out an Income And Expenditure form will no doubt soon see you right though. :roll: Good luck.

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  • 2 months later...

I am wanting to get this back on track again. I have been quite ill the last couple of months and got a telephone call today asking me to ring the bank urgently and that it was "very urgent" that I call them. Urgent matter, etc!

 

I truly thought my card had been cloned again!

 

Anyhow I get a young girl who wants to reset this plan in place. We go through the usual bits and bobs and I explained that the previous men had left me in tears over all this. Also explained I wasn't well and I was just ticking over. She was very nice telling me she fully understood and wanted to help. She said she was going to look at a few things and try to help me further.

 

15 minutes or so later I get a call back and the sum total is she wants to open me a basic bank account, close my current account and get me to start paying off my overdraft. I explained I don't have that spare money to do that and well it all ended with me getting upset and angry and said to her "If I kept my balance £1 under the limit every month we wouldn't be having this conversation. Why don't you people leave me alone. It's documented I am ill and by your own admission I am only at most ever over my limit by about £15".

 

I got no reply. I said hello about 10 times and she didn't reply or come back to the phone.

 

I broke down to my boyfriend who wants to put some cash in my account as a buffer not to spend, but as there was no resolution I am concerned they might just take the money and reduce my overdraft. I sat and cried for a good hour. This is so damn wrong. My OH believes in paying ones own way but even he cant understand that if nothing has changed since the initial plan, what are they giving me so much grief for.

 

So I gather I need to send a letter of Hardship - I will do this to send on Monday. Plus a complaint to HO.

 

I know the year I think it was til the end April 2013 I had paid £400 odd in charges when I had sent them a letter of Hardship some years ago and told them I was caring and did not foresee when this would end.

 

I cannot fathom how they think they are being fair?

 

Is there any new developments to Hardship with banks that I should know about?

 

Thank you and I am sorry I have not been well enough to attend to this.

 

@CagBmn - I think you misunderstand the meaning of discrimination with regards the 2 men questioning me. It was the WAY they did it - all but outright accusing me of lying. No-one should be subject to that, ESPECIALLY when they are ill, receiving SICKNESS benefits and I am not ramping up excessive debt on a monthly basis, all of which they can see by my account!

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