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    • Hi Guys,   Following in from my 17 page thread, that dates back over ten years, I am starting a new thread, at the suggestion of the site team. My issue relates the a) service charges relating to the Leasehold flat I bought back in 2006 b) a Managing Agent who is of questionable abilities as a manager of our block of flats. The Managing Agent has claimed £6k in fees to which (I think, as does the new Landlord) he was not entitled. I am wanting to get it back, and/or the fees on my account calculating properly which would leave me with a credit balance.  I am recently in receipt of a 4th claim relating to this dispute, with two of the previous three going 'no where'. The other one they won in default on 2011, but I successfully had that set-aside.They have not given me the money back though. It all started due to poor management of the block, and it transpired upon scrutiny that the management arrangements appear to be unenforceable prior to 2014. It's very complicated. This information is required simply posted, and not as a PDF, so here goes:   1.       BlurredFX Service Charge Saga 2.       Sept 2006 a.       In 2006 BFX buys a leasehold flat. His solicitor advises him that Ground Rent is payable to Landlord-one and Service Charges are payable, but to be wary of the service charges, as he is unable to confirm how they are being administrated. b.       BFX is sent a bill for service charges from PQR Managing Agent. BFX enquires as the legitimacy of the service charges, but is unable to get a satisfactory answer. The service charge requests are not complicit with the required legislation – such as the name of the Landlord. They are served in the name of ABC Management Company Ltd c/o PQR Managing Agents. c.       ABC Management Company has two Directors, both residents of the block in which BFX resides and to which this dispute relates. d.       Landlord-one is absent, except for Ground Rent requests. 3.       2006-2009 a.       Despite written and verbal requests, BFX refuses to pay any service charges until ABC Management Company are properly authorised by Landlord-one – because without such, he has no recourse or way to complain. b.       Demands are not complicit with the legislation. c.       The property was not properly maintained. For example, the lease obligations for an internal redecoration every five years had no been met. The obligations to maintain the exterior of the had not been met, and the timber double glazing was starting to rot quite badly. 4.       2008/2009/2010 a.       TUV Managing Agent Ltd buys out PQR Managing Agent (a sole trader, I believe). They seem to operate interchangeably for a few years, using different headed paper along the way. They seem to be interchangeable. It is the same personnel. 5.       June 2009 a.       TUV Managing Agent LTD, on behalf of ABC Management Company Ltd, file a court claim against BFX. [CLAIM2009] b.       BFX asks them to fully particularise their claim, including asking for details of who authorised them to manage the building and various other pertinent questions. 6.       10th August 2009 a.       BFX sends CPR18 – request for information to TUV Managinig Agent c/o ABC Management Company 7.       2009 a.       Hearing is scheduled for Jan 2010 [CLAIM2009] 8.       February 2010 a.       There is a hearing. b.       Ref: [CLAIM2009] c.       From the Court: IT IS ORDERED THAT the claim be stayed to enable the Parties to endeavour to reach a settlement if no application is made to restore by Tuesday 6th April 2010, the claim be struck out 9.       24th March 2010 a.       TUV Managing Agent sends BFX an agreement to sign, agreeing to pay. BFX does not sign the document. 10.   2010 – 30th or 31st March 2010 a.       BFX attends a meeting with a Director of ABC Management Company and Director of TUV Managing Agent. b.       BFX outlines his position, and suggests a verbal agreement to pay from 2006-2010 once the management of the block is properly administrated – my preference being the ‘RTM route’. c.       The other people at the meeting do not appear to understand. 11.   1st April 2010 a.       TUV Managing Agent on behalf of ABC Management Company write to the Court, asking that the claim be restored, claiming BFX has remained silent. b.       Notice of allocation from the Court, dated 15th April, for a hearing in July. 12.   July 2010 a.       On the day, a lady at the Court informs BFX that TUV Managing Agent has been on the phone, and said that BFX has paid the money and to cancel the hearing. b.       BFX had not paid any money at all. c.       Nothing more is heard of [CLAIM2009] 13.   6th October 2010 a.       ABC Management Co c/o TUV Managing Agent send a letter, after the Freehold Reversion of BFX’s block comes up for sale. TUV Managing Agent outline three options – do nothing, RTM, or buy the freehold. b.       BFX opines that it is not good advice, but is ignored. 14.   December 2010 a.       BFX’s health starts to visibly deteriorate. 15.   Late April 2011 a.       BFX is blue-lighted into the regional hospital, as witnessed by Director of ABC Management Company. 16.   Early May 2011 a.       TUV Managing Agent, on behalf of ABC Management Company, commence a new claim against BFX – literally within a week or so of BFX going into Hospital! b.       This is [CLAIM2011] 17.   August 2011 a.       TUV Managing Agent and ABC Management Company are awarded Judgement in Default. b.       BFX remains critically ill in Hospital. 18.   September 2011 a.       Letter from BFX’s Mortgage Company-One to BFX b.       “We have been advised by TUV Managing Agent that your Ground Rent and Service Charges of £6k-ish has not been paid.” Iy goes on to say pay them. 19.   September 2011 a.       In reference to [CLAIM2011] a letter from TUV Managing Agent to BFX’s Mortgage Company-One states: b.       “As the managing agents of BFX’s Block, I write to advise you that your client, BFX, is in severe arrears and therefore is in breach of his lease. c.       “A County Court Judgement was served on August 2011 in the sum of £6k-ish. A Copy of the Judgement is enclosed for your reference. d.       “I therefore request that this payment is now made in full by your client within 21 days, failure to do so will result in further action being taken and a Section 146Notice [sic] being served on Mr Piggin” 20.   October 2011 a.       Letter from TUV Managing Agent to BFX’s Mortgage Company-One states: b.       “Further to your letter of 25th October 2011, please find below the details of the bank account to make payment of the outstanding service charge and ground rent for the above property” [BFX’s property] c.       Mortgage Company-one makes a payment to ABC Management Co c/o TUV Managing Agent, for the claim amount. 21.   January 2012 a.       Landlord-one sells his freehold to Landlord-two. BFX receives a letter from Landlord-one’s solicitor. It states: b.       “…we write to advise that the benefit of the receipt of the ground rent payable under such Lease has now been transferred to Landlord-two to whom all future payments of ground rent including all arrears and the amount due from 2st January 2012 shall be payable to and whose receipt shall be a full and absolute discharge under such Lease” 22.   February 2012 a.       Landlord-one sells his freehold to Landlord-two. b.       Landlord-two writes to BFX stating that he owes Ground Rent since 2006. c.       That letter from Landlord-two to BFX also states d.       “While we have no wish to disrupt and current workable management arrangements we do have concerns in that respect as the building is not being managed strictly in accordance with the Lease provisions and although we would have no great objection to ABC Management Company Ltd continuing with the management of the structural and communal areas of the building we would be happier if the present informal arrangement, which could in theory be discontinued at any time by any party, could be formalised either by a Deed of Variation being entered into in connection with each individual leaseholder or by a complete Deed of Variation being entere into by all parties. We hope you will support a Deed of Variation and would request your written views in that respect. e.       “We were in direct communication with PQR Managing Agent prior to completion of our purchase and enclose for your information copy letter written to that firm on 11th January 2012. PQR Managing Agent have confirmed they have never received any ground rent payments and they are raising our ‘insurance concerns’ with X Insurer.” f.        The letter referred to above also asks PQR Managing Agent to make certain material disclosures to X Insurer. g.       In his letter to TUV/PQR Managing Agent, dated 11th of Jan, Landlord-two also states, h.       “As management is current [sic] carried out by you on behalf of ABC Management Company Limited, who are not named in the Lease and therefore maintenance obligations are unenforceable against or by that company, you may wish to give consideration to:” It then proposes a) a deed of variation, or b) Landlord-two becomes a client of TUV Property Management, and long term management is done that way. i.         The letter from Landlord-two continues: j.         “Finally, while we appreciate that you are not authorised to collect ground rent and indeed we assume you have not therefore been collecting ground rent, can you please confirm for the avoidance of doubt that you have never collected any ground rent payments from any leaseholder in connection with this building or, if you have collected any ground rent payments, can you please let us have details of such payments.” 23.   October 2012 a.       BFX makes an application for the Judgement to be set-aside, an account of his being hospitalised almost constantly since April 2011. b.       A hearing is scheduled. 24.   January 2013 a.       There is a hearing, the Judgement against BFX is set-aside. TUV Managing Agent and ABC Management Company do not attend. BFX has until February to file his Defence and Counterclaim, which he does. 25.   March 2013 a.       AQ’s submitted, and hearing scheduled. b.       TUV Managing Agent, on behalf of ABC Management Company is ordered to pay the hearing fee. 26.   18th April 2013 a.       Court orders unless TUV Managing Agent, on behalf of ABC Management Company pays the fees, the claim shall be struck out. b.       Letter from the Court: BFX’s counterclaim remains listed for May 2013. There is a hearing, and TUV Managing Agent, on behalf of ABC Management Company fail to attend. 27.   May 2013 a.       After a hearing, where TUV Managing Agent and ABC Management Company fail to attend, the Court orders: “The claim be adjourned generally with the liberty to restore on the application of either party.” 28.   2nd half of 2013 and 2014 a.       Various letter from TUV Property Management, and meetings of residents. It is decided by Leaseholders in BFX’s block that we should exercise our ‘right-to-manage’. 29.   17th February 2014 a.       Letter from a solicitor dealing with the RTM progress, it says Landlord-two now has 28 days to file a response. 30.   4th June 2014 a.       BFX Receives a letter from TUV Property Management it states: b.       “Please find enclosed a new standing order form for BFX’s block. c.       “We have opened a new current account for BFX’s block due to the Right to Manage coming into effect in 1st July 2014 d.       “The new standing order is to commence on 1st July 2014…” e.       It continues with pleasantries about cancelling old SO etc. 31.   2nd July 2014 a.       The newly formed ABC RTM Company Limited (c/o TUV Managing Agent) sends an invoice to BFX for £3.3k, the description on the invoice being ‘Account Adjustment: Transfer from previous Management Company’ 32.   2nd July 2014 a.       The newly formed ABC RTM Company Limited (c/o TUV Managing Agent) sends an invoice to BFX for £3.6k, the description on the invoice being ‘Account Adjustment: For period 4th July 2014 – 30th September 2014’ 33.   28th July 20014 (1) a.       ABC RTM Company Limited (c/o TUV Managing Agent) sends an invoice to BFX for £3.5k, having added £12. It states ‘Account Adjustment: Title Register’. b.       IT ALSO SHOWS BFX’s FIRST PAYMENT of 1 month’s service charges to ABC RTM Company Ltd as ‘Payment Received’ 34.   28th July 20014 (2) a.       ABC RTM Company Limited (c/o TUV Managing Agent) sends an invoice to BFX for £3.8k, having added £360 court fees. It states ‘Account Adjustment: Court Fees’ 35.   28th July 20014 (3) a.       ABC RTM Company Limited (c/o TUV Managing Agent) sends an invoice to BFX for £4k, having added £120 in court fees 36.   11th August 2014 a.       The newly formed ABC RTM Company Limited (c/o TUV Managing Agent) sends an invoice to BFX adding another £85. Description: ‘HM Court fee as fee is £205 not £120 – difference’ 37.   August 2014 a.       Following another emergency admission to Hospital for BFX, ABC RTM Company Limited immediately file a claim [CLAIM2014] for alleged arrears from 2011-2014. Approximately £4k. 38.   November 2014 a.       From the Court: Claim [CLAIM2014] stayed until February 2015, by which time the Defendant is to serve his Defence and in default shall file and serve further medical evidence supporting his inability to do the same. 39.   September 2015 a.       Claim stayed until end of October 2015 40.   November 2015 a.       Claim stayed until Jan 2016 41.   8th January 2016 a.       BFX makes an application for summary judgement [of CLAIM2014] that the claim be struck out, as it is a relitigation of [CLAIM2011] 42.   Feb 2016 a.       Transferred to local Court. 43.   31st March 2016 a.       There was a hearing of my application (I think) b.       From the Court, re [CLAIM2014] c.       IT IS ORDERED THAT d.       The hearing of today’s date be adjourned e.       The Claimant to file and serve a fully Particulars (detailed) Particulars of claim [sic] to set out the basis to the claim, entitlement of the Claimant to recover sums from the Defendant, detailing sums recovered and any outstanding payment plus other details which the Claimand may advise to address by 22 april 2016 f.        The Defendant to file and serve a detailed defence addressing the Particulars of Claim in paragraph 2 above by 12 may 2016 g.       If the Defendant wishes the application of today’s date to be relisted (upon consideration of the fully particularised Particulars of Claim), the Defendant should write to the court, at the same time as filing a defence, with a copy of this order, asking for the Court to relist the application for hearing with an estimated length of 1 hour 30 minutes (30 minutes of it being reading time). In the event that the application is relisted, both parties to file and serve detailed statements addressing the subject matter of the application 7 clear days before the hearing. 44.   17th May 2016 a.       From the court: b.       “IT IS ORDERED THAT The Defendants application be relisted in accordance with the order made on the 31st March 2016 on Monday 27th June at 15:30pm with an elh of 30 minutes,not to be heard by telephone” [sic]” 45.   June 2016 a.       I think there was a hearing, possibly. I am looking for the paperwork. I attended the hearing directly from a different regional Hospital to the usual one, where I was being treated for a brain infection. We got our heads bashed together by a clearly infuriated Judge, Judge advised ABC RTM c/o TUV Managing Agents to get a solicitor, tells BFX to be clearer in what he says. Nothing further was heard. Until… 46.   7th April 2017 a.       BFX has an invoice for 1066.00 from TUV Managing Agent c/o ABC RTM Company Ltd 47.   August 2017 a.       BFX mortgage sold from ‘Mortgage Company-one’ to ‘Mortgage Company-two’ 48.   13th September 2017 a.       BFX received an invoice for £5,000 for his share for new windows to BFX’s block. It seemed complicit with s20 LTA 1985 etc. BFX pays £5k. b.       There was a lot of confusion during this process, I am pinning down the paperwork, but it was paid. The total invoice was not split as per the lease – Leaseholders were asked for funds on a per window basis, but the Lease says the total should be summed and divided by the number of units. c.       N.B. BFX’s flat is in a conservation area, and the price reflects expensive windows, as specified by local planners. There were other attempts to put in cheap, nasty windows, but BFX was able to stop this by making informal representations to the local Borough Council – who in turn contacted TUV Managing Agents, who in turn eventually put in a proper planning application for proper windows, which was approved. d.       There was a lot of confusion during this process, I am pinning down the paperwork, but it was paid. The total invoice was not as per the lease – Leaseholders were asked for funds on a per window basis, but the Lease says the total should be summed and divided by the number of units. 49.   12th October 2017 a.       BFX receives invoice for service charges (or statement of account): £4,800 approx. No payments are made by BFX 50.   25h September 2018 a.       BFX receives an invoice (or statement of account) for a total of £492. b.       It appears they have decided not to collect this amount 51.   March 2020 a.       Claim2020 from ABC RTM Company Limited c/o Company Director (not TUV Property Management) for £890 plus £70 Court fee. BFX has not been paying his fees because the management of the block is terrible.
    • Yes I know.  We would like the story posted up plainly on a post in a new thread with no attachment simply a step-by-step account of what happened and what led to the litigation. I think we can understand why this thread has gone on for 18 pages
    • I think he's hoping the attached pdf would be a satisfactory starting point for a new thread?
    • Please start a new thread so that you can post up a nice brief bullet pointed chronology of what happened which led to the litigation.
    • Hope it all goes well for her CB, let us know how she gets on.
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nat

Log Book Loan Bill of sale question

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If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

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Hi,

 

Am I right in thinking that if you get a top up to your log book loan and sign a new agreement, a new bill of sale has to be registered within 7 days?

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if a new bill, or even variation, then does seem as if it or the variation would need to be reregistered accordingly? but, was it registerable in the first place?


IMO

:-):rant:

 

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Just received all paperwork by email

 

BOS was stamped on the 5th day,

 

but the instalment amounts differ on the BOS to the actual credit agreement,

 

any thoughts on this?

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Hi nat

 

Sorry but I have had to edit your post and remove the attachments as you could see identifying details under the marker you used we would always prefer that you remain anonymous.

 

If you need to upload document do the following:

 

 

**You can post up images/letters by this method immediately. You don't need 10 posts**

 

Set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

 

BUT......

ENSURE: Remove all personal info inc. barcodes etc.but leave all monetary figures and dates.

 

************************* **********************************************************

(DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS)

************************* ************************* *********************************

 

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program go to one of the many free online pdf converter websites http://freejpgtopdf.com/

 

if you have multiple scans/pics - put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or http://www.freepdfconvert.com/ or use www.pdfmerge.com

 

convert existing PC files to PDF (office has an installable print to PDFoption)

 

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if you have many images too rather than multiple single pdfs

 

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that or use word and save as pdf

 

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though dont use full bank names or CAG in the title

i'e Default notice DD-mm-yyyy TSB

 

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

 

YOU DONT have to put a link to the attachment in the msg box.. just upload it..job done


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I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

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follow the guide please

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

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try these

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they can't be differing amounts.

 

heres some notes I've gathered:

 

logbook loan repossessions are not always legal,

.

if linked to a CCA agreement or if the BOS has not been registered with the high court.

.

If BOS registered then yes they can reposses,

but have to show registration and debt details.

Registration

A bill of sale can only be enforced if it was properly registered.

Since this is an expensive and difficult process,

it is rare that this actually happens.

However, failure to register the bill of sale renders it void,

and so renders any security on goods void.

.

Consequently, before allowing any creditor to gain possession of your goods,

ask to see a registered copy of the bill showing the supreme courts seal.

.

You can also call the national debt line, and ask them how to search the registry yourself.

.

Also a valid DN must be issued.

.

If linked to a CCA then can not reposses if on private property without a court order

( but can if on public road and under a third has only been paid ).

.

Over a third, they need a court order wherever it is.

.

check for...[bOS]

.

No Independant signature

No Indapendant Witness

Not Registered With The High Court In 7 Days

not registered AT ALL!

.

Credit Agreement Details Not On The Bill Of Sale

.

how to check:

.

email:QBEnforcement@hmcts.gsi.g ov.uk.[no spaces]

.

ring:020 7947 7772

.

write:

QB Enforcement Section,

Room E15-E17,

Royal Courts of Justice,

Strand, London, WC2A

...

.

ideally you need the BOS number

.

however

they can search by the Reg Number

.

...............

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

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The only signatures on both the bill of sale and and the credit agreement are mine and the manager of mobile money.

 

There is no independent witness.

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that BOS must be ind witnessed too.!!

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

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So does that mean they are both void?

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as far as I can see yes

 

would be nice if someone like theoldrouge could comment too

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

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yes absolutly with dx on this one.

 

The credit ag and BOS cant be different amounts,

 

the ag totals 9800.77

the bos totals 9770.89

 

in breach of the essential contents of a bill of sale.

 

In addition the witness cannot be the manager of mobile money, must be independent.

 

A valid dn under s87 with the opportunity to apply for a time order must be given.

 

In addition

as dx says

because linked to cca1974 cannot repossess from private property without a court order at anytime


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

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Any help I am able to give is from my own experience only. Should you have any doubt you should contact a qualified professional.

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Ok thanks, sorry for sounding a bit dim, but what do I do next?

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What is your current situation as regards this ac.? it would also be useful if you could post up the other two pages of your agreement


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

Any help I am able to give is from my own experience only. Should you have any doubt you should contact a qualified professional.

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What is your current situation as regards this ac.? it would also be useful if you could post up the other two pages of your agreement

 

I'm up to date at the moment.

 

Other 2 pages are attached.

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well purely on the witness sig/lender sig the bos is obviously void.,

 

which means in effect that they have lost their security.

 

Need more time to see whether the credit ag itself is enforceable or not.

 

It would be interesting to see if the security itself was improperly executed under s105, as this would trigger s106

which enables the debtor to reclaim all amounts paid by virtue of the security

 

so will have a longer look at this

 

-where are you hoping to go with this?


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

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Any help I am able to give is from my own experience only. Should you have any doubt you should contact a qualified professional.

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Thanks so much for this, I am quite willing to pay it back, just want to get the security off my car and to be able to pay it back at my own rate really. But if I can reclaim all amounts paid, that would be a bonus!

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Just had a message to say that I will default next week.

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Now had a long look at this, and

 

I regret to say the OFT lost the Attestation (witness) Issue by a majority of 2 to1 on appeal.

 

(Nine Regions t/a LogbookLoans v OFT Case no GC/1048/2011)

 

so the bos cannot be regarded as void on the witness issue.

 

It would seem your only way is if the BOS has not been registered with the High Court within the 7 days allowed.

 

All cases based on s140 unfair relationships seem to have been lost or lost on appeal as regards the credit agreement

(which seems to contain all the prescribed terms,

which would preclude the slightly different figures argument.

 

The only positives are any default notice must comply with s87,and must allow you 14 days to remedy

and the opportunity to apply for a time order.

 

The other being that from feb2011, these firms are expected to follow the Govt Code of Practice-

 

If a borrower gets into difficulty lenders must consider proposals for alternative payment arrangements

and will reposses the car only if attempts to arrange alternative payment arrangements fail

 

-Also did you receive the bos infomation sheet before signing?

 

sorry I cannot be more positive with this


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

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Just noticed that the credit agreement is dated one month before the Bill of sale. Would this, in conjunction with the differing amounts have any effect on the validity of either?

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I was unable to find a sucessful case based on s140, all were lost or lost on appeal


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

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Any help I am able to give is from my own experience only. Should you have any doubt you should contact a qualified professional.

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I thought the BOS had to be registered within 7 days of the purchase/CCA??


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Date on credit agreement is 17/06/2013,

 

date on BOS is 17/07/2013 and

 

BOS was registered 22/07/2013.

 

There are also differing repayment amounts on CCA and BOS.

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OFT COMMENTARY ON BILLS OF SALE*

-(this was their guidance prior to their lost appeal,some of which may help)

In researching the area of car finance two authorities gave us details of cars being sold under a Bill of Sale.

We have looked at the Bills of Sale Acts (BSA) and their interaction with consumer credit legislation and the Office's view is set out below.

We have also researched how to check if a Bill of Sale has been registered.

Royal Courts of Justice

The Bill of Sale must be witnessed and registered at the Royal Courts of Justice,

in the time and manner set out in the BSA,

otherwise it will be void and cannot be treated as a licence to take possession.

You can check if this has been carried out by making a written request to the Court

and paying £5 or visiting there in person and searching the register for free.

To search you need to

know the name of the borrower,

address and

the year of registration.

The entries in the register are made alphabetically in the name of the borrower.

 

The address is:

Room E17, East Block Ground Floor, Royal Courts of Justice, Strand, London WC2A 2LL**

Bills of Sale Acts

As we understand the position –

a. Buying a car under a bill of sale will be a regulated consumer credit agreement

 

b. The goods will not become ‘protected’ in the same way as for hire-purchase agreements

(for which section 90 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 provides that if the consumer has paid one-third

or more of the total price of the goods, the creditor cannot recover possession except by judicial proceedings or consent).

 

c. However, the creditor will not be able to enforce the security unless he has first served a default notice

under section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and this has expired

(after not less than 14 days) without remedy or the debtor applying to the court for relief.

 

d. If the creditor repossesses without a valid default notice,

the consumer may apply for an injunction or a time order,

or seek damages for breach of contract.

 

On this basis,

whilst the consumer will have less protection under a bill of sale than under a hirepurchase agreement,

he will not be completely unprotected, and the creditor will be at risk of licensing action if he acts unfairly.

 

In addition –

e. The bill of sale is given as security, and where this is provided in relation to a regulated consumer credit agreement

it must comply with section 105 Consumer Credit Act 1974. f.

The credit agreement must embody any security,

by virtue of regulation 2(8) of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983.

A document embodies a provision if the provision is set out in it or in another document referred to in it

(a bill of sale will usually be incorporated by reference).

 

g. The debtor must be provided with a copy of the bill of sale, pursuant to sections 62 and 63 Consumer Credit Act 1974,

since this is a document referred to in the credit agreement.

h. If the bill of sale does not comply with section 105 of the Act it will be unenforceable by virtue of section 106.

Furthermore, if the credit agreement does not comply with the Consumer Credit Act 1974 so that it is unenforceable,

this will preclude the exercise of any remedies under the bill of sale (except pursuant to a court order where relevant).

 

i. The bill of sale must also comply with the statutory provisions in the Bills of Sale Acts.

In particular, it must be in the form given in the schedule to the Bills of Sale Act (1878) Amendment Act 1882,

otherwise it will be void and cannot be treated as a licence to take possession.

 

j. The bill of sale must also be witnessed and registered (at the relevant department of the Supreme Court)

in the time and manner set out in the Bills of Sale Acts,

otherwise it will be void in respect of the chattels comprised in it.

 

1k. In practice, the majority of such bills of sale may well be unenforceable

because the provisions of the Bills of Sale Acts are unlikely to have been followed,

and even if they have, the relevant requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 must also be satisfied.

 

l. The bill of sale and related credit agreement may also be susceptible to action under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999

or under the extortionate credit bargain provisions of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

m.Whether title can pass to a third party where there is a valid bill of sale

will depend upon whether the bill transfers legal or equitable title to the grantee,

and each case would need to be looked at on its facts.

 

The Bills of Sale Acts are unduly complex and outdated, and should be reviewed

– as recommended by the Crowther Committee in 1971.

We suspect however that BERR will be unwilling to include this in the current Consumer Credit Act 1974 Review

unless there is clear evidence of consumer detriment.

You may wish to bring your concerns to the BERR’s attention by

writing to –

Consumer Affairs Directorate, Department of Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform, 1

Victoria Street, London SW1H 0ET

 

* I have updated this guidance to take account of legal and governmental changes

 

** The office where the register is kept is not easy to locate,

but, if you enter the main Court building on the Strand,

and ask at the enquiry desk immediately beyond the security desks,

they will give you a sheet of directions.


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Any help I am able to give is from my own experience only. Should you have any doubt you should contact a qualified professional.

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