Cabot Financial and Hitachi Nova loan

[dx100uk]

pdf remember please

 

if you cant click on the link

and read it

 

we cant sorry

 

dx

[kev 123]

Sorry, hope this is ok

[dx100uk]

I think its time the brig got onboard this one and sent cabot a thunderbolt letter.

 

they cant ever hope to enforce a debt

that they have purchased

whereby the OP signed a blank agreement

and numbers were filled in afterwards.

 

that's why hitachi dumped it on the phishing list. by selling it.

 

dx

[kev 123]

Thanks dx I look forward to forwarding the Brig's letter

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Thanks dx I look forward to forwarding the Brig's letter

Hello Kev,

 

 

Responding to dxs request.

 

 

I'll read through the thread a little later, mean while could you please give me the basic gist as to what has been going on, then I can draft a letter for you.

 

 

Brig.

 

 

Some points please.

 

 

The original agreement was "signed" before the details of the loan were put in?

If so were you given any other written confirmation of the financial details.?

Did the document have any financial details at all on it.

Or was it only the account number that was changed without your knowledge.

[kev 123]

Hi Brig, thanks for your response,

 

the basic details are,

 

after an injury my wages were reduced

i contacted Hitachi asking for reduced payments on a personal loan

they agreed to a payment schedule of £50 a month for a period of 12 months.

 

Six months into the agreement i received a letter from Hitachi telling me that the account had been sold,

 

I received a letter from Cabot on the same day saying that they had bought the account

and any further payments paid to Hitachi would be sent to them.

 

I then joined CAG and was given the advice to send a CCA request to Cabot and i SAR'd Hitachi.

 

I eventually received a copy of the agreement with two hand written agreement numbers on it

one of which had been crossed out, with Cabot's response that this is enough to enforce the agreement.

 

The SAR was interesting it stated that there was a hostile termination on 30/1/14 still don't know what that means.

 

I have the original customers copy of the agreement which i signed and returned, it has no agreement number on it.

 

dx seems to think that this is the reason that Hitachi sold it on as they know that it is unenforceable,

I am disappointed to say the least with Hitachi that I had an agreement in place with them and half way through they sold it to Cabot.

 

I think that about sums things up, if you need anything else please ask.

[ims21]

 

I have the original customers copy of the agreement which i signed and returned, it has no agreement number on it.

 

 

What was this loan for?

 

Home improvements or some such?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi Brig, thanks for your response,

 

the basic details are,

 

after an injury my wages were reduced

i contacted Hitachi asking for reduced payments on a personal loan

they agreed to a payment schedule of £50 a month for a period of 12 months.

 

Six months into the agreement i received a letter from Hitachi telling me that the account had been sold,

 

I received a letter from Cabot on the same day saying that they had bought the account

and any further payments paid to Hitachi would be sent to them.

 

I then joined CAG and was given the advice to send a CCA request to Cabot and i SAR'd Hitachi.

 

I eventually received a copy of the agreement with two hand written agreement numbers on it

one of which had been crossed out, with Cabot's response that this is enough to enforce the agreement.

 

The SAR was interesting it stated that there was a hostile termination on 30/1/14 still don't know what that means.

 

I have the original customers copy of the agreement which i signed and returned, it has no agreement number on it.

 

dx seems to think that this is the reason that Hitachi sold it on as they know that it is unenforceable,

I am disappointed to say the least with Hitachi that I had an agreement in place with them and half way through they sold it to Cabot.

 

I think that about sums things up, if you need anything else please ask.

 

 

Hi Kev,

OK that makes more sense to me now.

 

 

So does the original that you have show the same financial data as the ones supplied by Cabot?

 

 

I'm thinking of a challenge along the lines of that you cannot rely on the alleged agreement submitted to comply with a CCA request

is an true copy of that which you signed, therefore it is Not sufficient to enforce via the court so no payment or offer of payment will be forthcoming.

 

 

And add that the original had no account no. on it.

 

 

I can work on that if you wish.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Good Morning Kev,

 

 

I am going to post a draft for you to amend as necessary and add personal data and reference numbers.

I would take copies of the documents you have and send with the letter.

I always recommend going to the top with complaints, cut out "customer (dis) service departments" whenever possible.

 

 

For The Personal Attention of:

Mr Ken Stannard

Chief Executive Officer

Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd;

1 Kings Hill Avenue

West Malling

Kent

ME19 4UA

 

 

Private & Confidential:

 

 

Date:

 

 

Ref: Use Cabots:

 

 

Formal Complaint:

 

 

Dear Mr Stannard,

 

 

I refer you to a long running dispute regarding an alleged debt purchased by Cabot from Hitachi Nova Finance, please note I do not acknowledge any debt to Cabot.

 

 

Cabot have supplied a document in reply to my request made under section 77/78 of The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended) claim that it meets the requirements of the Act and entitle Cabot to enforce the alleged debt.

 

 

I formally reject the document produced as not only non compliant with my request but also as being unenforceable via the court system.

 

 

For information and the avoidance of any misunderstanding I have attached copies of the documents supplied by Cabot.

 

 

As you will see the hand written agreement/account numbers have been altered, I would also point out that the original agreement for the alleged debt had no such account number displayed, therefore these numbers have been added at a later date without my knowledge, by who is not clear.

 

 

Therefore I cannot be certain that the documents supplied are true copies of any original agreement.

 

 

It is also my contention that as the agreement for the alleged debt had no identifying agreement/account number it was unenforceable from its inception.

 

 

I now suggest the Cabot reviews the " commercial" aspects of this alleged debt and writes it off.

 

 

This letter is a Formal Complaint requiring Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd; to fully investigate and respond to it with in 56 days.

 

 

Yours etc;

 

 

 

 

Use signed for post check delivery date:

 

 

Brig:

[dx100uk]

the unredacted agreement should be with you brig

 

dx

[kev 123]

Thanks Brig i will get that off today, and in answer to your question the loan was for building work

[ims21]

Can you expand on how the loan was taken out please?

 

In your home or elsewhere?

 

There is a point to this I assure you....please don't send any letters just at this moment in time.

[kev 123]

Hi dx, Brig do you want to see the original customer copy of the agreement?

[kev 123]

Hi ims, the loan was taken out over the phone and the agreement sent to me through the post, I had recently settled a loan with them. The letter is in the envelope ready to go when you say

[ims21]

Hi ims, the loan was taken out over the phone and the agreement sent to me through the post, I had recently settled a loan with them. The letter is in the envelope ready to go when you say

 

OK Bear with me....just reviewing and comparing some stuff.

 

Back in a bit.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

the unredacted agreement should be with you brig

 

dx

 

 

yep got it dx, from what I've seen that is not compliant with a CCA request nor would I expect a judge to accept this.

 

 

It is certainly a matter for the FCA now and FOS at a later date.

[ims21]

Kev...in post #94 you said you have the original customer copy....can you post it up as a PDF please (with all personal information removed).

 

Still hold off on sending any letters at the moment.

[kev 123]

Here is the customer copy of the agreement

[ims21]

Thank you.

 

It is falling into place now.

 

You say you never had a default notice from Hitachi?

 

I'm just looking at this "Hostile Termination" business now.

[kev 123]

No, I have never received a default notice from Hitachi

[ims21]

Sorry and one last question, did you receive a termination notice?

[kev 123]

No termination notice either, the only correspondence was to inform me that the account had been sold to Cabot.

[ims21]

OK thanks....I'll post up my notes for you but will be in the morning now.

[kev 123]

No worries and thank you

[ims21]

Ok I have had a look at all of this.

 

I don't see anything wrong with the agreement you have received via Cabot, it is identical in material form to the customer copy you have retained yourself.

 

The mechanics of taking a loan in this fashion are that after your telephone application, Hitachi send out an agreement to you. This consists of two parts, one for you (the customer copy) and another which is Hitachi's copy. You are asked to sign and return the Hitachi copy to them which it appears you have done looking at the signed copy you provided.

 

When these agreements are sent out, they do not have an agreement number/account number on them purely because no agreement or account exists until such time as you have returned the signed copy. When Hitachi receive the signed copy they then create and allocate an account number (which is the agreement number) and write that on the agreement as part of their record keeping/audit trail.

 

That agreement/account number will also then feature on any statements that are sent out to you. You have confirmed that the statements/transaction history which you received show the same number on them so there is no issue there assuming of course that the statements do reflect the actual figures on the loan agreement.

 

Also note that the authorisation number on both copies of the agreement is the same.

 

As far as the alteration to the number goes, I don't think there is anything sinister in this. I would suggest that when creating the account, the operator initially wrote the wrong number on the form and then corrected it. At the end of the day the agreement is in your name, has the same numbers as the statements and ties up in all respects to the your account. That being the case the, error in allocating a number at the outset would be de minimis and would not I think be worthy of any consideration by a judge.

 

It seems to me that Cabot have indeed complied with the CCA request and have provided a full signed copy of the agreement complete with T&Cs.

 

As to your credit file, it wouldn't be a case of this having dropped off with a default being more than six years old as the account was only taken out in 2012. It would seem that Hitachi have chosen not to file a default with the Credit Reference Agencies.

 

This brings us on to an area where you might well have a complaint of unfair treatment.

 

From the communications log supplied as a result of your SAR, there is a clear note of this "Hostile Termination" but there is no note in respect of issuing a Default Notice or Termination Notice and this agrees with what you have said in that you have never received any such documents. As you have said yourself, it is also a concern that they decided to terminate the account mid way through an agreed payment plan. Their log clearly shows that they advised you that the arrangement would be in place for 12 months and yet the decided to terminate at 7 months (I think you said it was 7 months in).

 

The point here is that you would have been relaxing knowing that the servicing of your account was in order and that you had a time frame of 12 months in which to relax and try and improve things. For them to suddenly renege on the agreed reduced repayment schedule and terminate the account is. in my view, treating you unfairly. Their decision to terminate and sell the account would probably have been a commercial decision that they took for their own reasons but it still seems unfair of them to do so given the foregoing.

 

If it were me I would be writing a formal complaint to Hitachi about your treatment and within that complaint ask some direct questions as well....

 

1. What is a "Hostile Termination" as defined by their company policy.

 

2. Why did they terminate the account mid way through an agreed repayment plan which they told you and recorded as being available for 12 months.

 

3. Why did they not send out any default notice.

 

4. Why did they not send you a termination notice.

 

If you mark this as a formal complaint they will have 8 weeks to give you a response which, if you are not satisfied with, you can pass on to fos to have a look at. Also, if you do not get a response by the 8 week deadline then you can got fos involved then as well. It may well be worth aiming at a complaint to fos as they have the power to award you some compensation if they feel you have been treated unfairly. It won't be a grand sum but it will be better than nothing.

 

So on to Cabot...have you stopped paying them? If you have I would suggest that you consider corresponding with them with a view to reaching a repayment arrangement with them. They are now the legal owners of the account, they have complied with the CCA request and are able to collect on this.