Failure to Notify - 15 Years Ago! **Case now closed**

[nickitmma]

Hi, im looking for some advice.

 

Approx 15 years ago I sold my motorbike to a guy through a newspaper advert and sent off the green slip.

 

I hadnt heard anything since then until

 

I received a Failure to Notify letter a month or so ago.

 

I wrote back saying i did return the slip (which I would have done) and that i didnt have the person I sold it to's details

but they wrote again saying I had to pay £55 to avoid court action (or £35 if I pay promptly).

 

I filled in the dispute form and wrote a letter explaining I couldnt provide the persons details as i dont keep my records that long

and that I thought that given the timescale involved

 

i thought it was unreasonable to continue action against me but

 

they have written again and advised that as its my responsibility to pursue the acknowledgement letter confirming they have updated their records

and I didnt, they intend to take me to court if I dont pay.

 

Whats peoples views and experiences

- given the 15 year timescale involved if I push it all the way and go to court i

s the case likely to be dropped or am i likely to have to pay a bigger amount and court costs?

 

Any thoughts appreciated!

 

I dont want to go to court but im willing to if theres a good chance action would be dropped.

 

Thanks in advance

Nick

[dx100uk]

who is writing these letters?

 

DVLA or a DCA trying to fleece you?

 

dx

[nickitmma]

Hi dx, thanks for the reply - its the DVLA themselves (letter shows from the DVLA - Enforcement Centre signed off at the bottom by the "Enforcement Officer").

 

Id like to think i could argue my side in court but am a bit concerned i could end up with a much bigger outlay!

[dx100uk]

there are numerous threads here of the DVLA

 

one- sending out whatever letters

claiming money is owed

 

two- even issuing court claims and LOSING in court

 

they are very well known for losing documents and trying to blame people like yourself.

 

dx

[ploddertom]

I think they may get their fingers burnt if they attempted to lay a complaint to the Court after all this time.

[nickitmma]

Thanks guys, i had read a few threads on here around this issue but will spend a bit time reading some more, the ones i read were mixed in results. Im hoping the time factor involved will put any judge on my side, well actually im hoping the DVLA show some common sense and dont actually take it that far but my current thoughts are to take it all the way. Not sure if thats brave or stupid yet

[unzippy]

What an absolute **** take. I think I'd asking them why it took 15 years, I'd be raising it with my MP and the media!

[Bazooka Boo]

I'd be willing them to take me to court, where you will defend this robustly, and counter sue for damages.

I would like to think that this is time barred by any stretch of the imagination, I don't know what kind of rule they're trying to enforce here, but I would be wetting myself laughing, tell them to put up or shut up!

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1978/30/section/7

[nickitmma]

Unzippy

- im guessing that the motorbike sat in a garage/shed for years and was sold recently hence a new keeper

finally attempting to register it as there own?

 

As this is the first contact i have had in 15 years about the bike,

I think i can safely assume that no speeding tickets or parking fines have ever occurred as they would have written to me to tell me

- therefore, no actual offences have taken place other than the fact they did not receive the slip i posted off.

 

I have owned several cars in my 22 years driving and have followed the same procedure every time I sold one without any problems until now.

 

I will do a bit digging around time barred as would surely come under that,

even the tax man doesnt require you to keep records beyond 6 years!

 

Will also consider the media if they insist on carrying on the action against me..

 

I have read the Interpretation Act but need to familiarise myself with it more as it looks like im heading to court

 

Good advice guys, thanks and if anyone else has any additional info that may help please share with me

[unzippy]

Have a read of this thread.

 

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=1255278&mid=0&i=20&nmt=Tax+fine+query+&mid=0

 

Dunno if it is too late to dispute, or you can still ask for a V991 form?

 

I'm suprised that they are not after you for 15 years worth of road tax too

[nickitmma]

Thanks unzippy, my searching last night led to quite a few threads on pistonheads and on one there was a template letter which looked very useful so i have copied that and saved it as i'll probably need to use it later - do you know if I could share the link here (im guessing so as you have above ) as i dont want to fall foul of any forum rules? The template was created and put on a public forum so i think it would be ok - lots of people commented afterwards that once they sent that off their cases were dropped

 

God, 15 years of road tax, i didnt think of that lol, let them bloody try!!

[Bazooka Boo]

Seriously, I would respond by telling them all the date I am available for court, then once they issued a claim, rock up, defend yourself, win then counter sue.

Make sure you exhaust their complaints procedure, if they have one, and for all the good it will do, at least it shows willing on your part.

Jeez, I thought double jeopardy was bad, but to try and bring legal action against someone for something fifteen years later, is so utterly childish and pathetic is really scraping the barrel.

[Tony P]

Not knowing (remembering!) those days and the routine procedures then, I wonder if the OP received a 'Road Tax'/SORN reminder when whatever existed prior to his sale was expiring.

[nickitmma]

Hi Tony, since selling the bike 15 years ago I have received no correspondence at all about anything until the failure to notify arrived... The FTN went to my parents house where i stayed when i owned the bike so if anything had came in my name to do with the bike it would have went there and obviously would have been passed on to me...

 

Should I be calling them to register a complaint about the whole thing or should I just wait till i receive whatever comes next in the process. So far i have had 3 letters, i wrote back to the first one saying i couldnt provide details after this time, i wrote back to the second one and filled in the bit about disputing the case and they wrote back what looks like a standard letter (no specific reference to anything i mentioned just "you didnt notify us so we will take it further etc etc) saying they will continue to take action. What should i expect or do next guys, your advice is greatly appreciated as I want to push this as far as i can, i am 100% sure I wont be paying any fine that's for sure!

 

Nick

[reallymadwoman]

Personally I'd be responding to every letter mentioning 15 years in big, underlined, letters at every opportunity in the hope that someone with some common sense will see it eventually.

 

Failing that, as already advised, I'd turn up in court with copies of all those letters (good reason to keep them very polite!) and make DVLA look really stupid. And tell my MP, especially if he's 'on the other side' so will enjoy making the government look just as stupid.

[ericsbrother]

I think, as far as court is concerned, the judge will ask him/herself is it reasonable for the DVLA to expect you to still have copies of correspondence dating back that time. As you say you sent it off and the DVLA cannot say that you didint the judge would be asking why it has become an issue now and I doubt the DVLA will have a reasoned argument as to why. It will be them for the DVLA to prove that you didnt send it off and they are infallible evn though the onus is upon yourself to provide the evidence.

Might be worth checking to se if what they are saying was actually an offence then.

[ericsbrother]

Looked it up anr it is an offence but section 7 of the interpretation act (dvla) says that it is presumed delived 2 days after it was sent unless the DVLA can show otherwise. So, onus on them to prove it not sent when you said it was.

Dont forget this is an organisation that added HGV 1,2 and 3 to my wife's driving licence when she renewed it on moving house and now swear she is a lorry driver.

[nickitmma]

Thanks for checking that Ericsbrother, I have a copy of the interpretation act and think that will help along with the timescale. Im wondering at what point they will see common sense here or will i just get auto responses right up until i go to court, this is such a waste of their time and money chasing this (and mine!!), surely its common sense to see on this occasion they should let it go - fighting so desperately for £35 seems crazy when i bet its costing them more to keep chasing it...

[Bazooka Boo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limitation_Act_1980

 

I fail to see how they are ever going to make this stick, by any stretch of the imagination they aren't going to win.

[nickitmma]

Thanks for the link Bazooka Boo, unfortunately im in Scotland and that says its only applicable in England and Wales. I wonder if there is a Scottish version - how do you guys know where to find all this stuff, i have no idea where to even begin except to copy and paste things i find on threads like this - I'd love to know what laws and acts etc would be of use to me?

 

Thanks for the reply anyway

Nick

[Bazooka Boo]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1973/52/contents

 

http://www.thinkingscots.com/limitation-of-claims-in-england-vs-prescription-of-claims-in-scotland/

 

Plenty of reading here!

[topcat1802]

You could also point out that even with tax records you are not required to keep records beyond 6 years!

[Bazooka Boo]

Don't pay won't pay!

Have I mentioned referring them to Arkell v Pressdram?

[nickitmma]

Wow, just checked out both those links Bazooka Boo, its like its written in another language I'll have to try again tomorrow as I cant figure out if it helps or not, why didnt i go to legal school lol...

 

Haha love Private eye's response, if the DVLA person asks what my defence will be should I try that

[Gick]

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Edited February 17, 2014 by Gick
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