Unenforceable agreements under the Consumer Credit Act

[IS IT ME?]

Hi All,

Sorry if this has been put in wrongly but I have some on who is very very worried about this agreement and I have looked at it and think its wrong but would like some one to confirm this.

sorry tried to load but could not so here goes and if its not right then soory,

Hire Purchase Agreement cc act 1974.

Details of Hire(?) these are the finance companies

Deatails of the customer These are his but the surname is worngly set out.

Goods:

Amount of credit £6083.00

Duration of agreement 30 (nothing else) 30 what?

Repayment £381.01

APR 47%

one payment of £250.00 payable followed by 29 months at £318.01

Cash price £9000.

IPT Goods £250.00

Vat free goods £33.

Total Cash price (T) £9283.00

Deposit paid £3200.00

Advance £6083.00

Interest (X) £3457.30

Documentation fee (Y) £250.00

Option to purchase fee (Z) £5.00

X+y+z = tOTAL CHARGE FOR CREDIT © £3712.30

T+C Total amount payable £12995.30

 

Some of the figures do not add up and the company is under a different name.

any help would be very gratefully accepted.

[1273]

Can a Credit Card Application containing Key Financial Information (interest rates etc, loss and theft of card and genral information about missing payments and default charges be said to be an Consumer Credit Agreement. It also says 'once you have signed this agreement, you will have a short time to cancel it. We will send you the exact details of how and when you can do this.'

There is no credit amount or credit limit. At the end it below my signature it says By signing this you authorise us when considering YOUR APPLICATION to gain additional relevant information, credit references, electoral role etc

My signature is on the application form, and a section where they initial they recieved my proof of ID, not actually signing the agreement.

 

It also has - we will tell you your credit limit when you first revieve your card.

 

My question is can an application for a credit card, be used as a enforcable CCA??

[steven4064]

1273

 

Please ask quetsions on one thread only or start your own thread

 

 

An application for can be an enforceable agreement if it has the debtor's signature and the prescribed terms - credit limit, repayment terms and interest rate (for a credit card, anyway)

[james946]

Hi, i am new to this and i am looking for some advice..i signed an agreement with Abbey when i was 16 and stopped using the account a month after i turned 18. since then it has been 19 months and i opened a letter from abbey who claim i owe them £83.47 in bank charges due to a direct debit failing. it is my understanding that being as i signed when i was under 16 this is not a legal abiding contract so the charges are not enforceable or am i incorrect???? any help will be much appreciated. Cheers

[hellsbells1805]

Hi All,

Sorry if this has been put in wrongly but I have some on who is very very worried about this agreement and I have looked at it and think its wrong but would like some one to confirm this.

sorry tried to load but could not so here goes and if its not right then soory,

Hire Purchase Agreement cc act 1974.

Details of Hire(?) these are the finance companies

Deatails of the customer These are his but the surname is worngly set out.

Goods:

Amount of credit £6083.00

Duration of agreement 30 (nothing else) 30 what?

Repayment £381.01

APR 47%

one payment of £250.00 payable followed by 29 months at £318.01

Cash price £9000.

IPT Goods £250.00

Vat free goods £33.

Total Cash price (T) £9283.00

Deposit paid £3200.00

Advance £6083.00

Interest (X) £3457.30

Documentation fee (Y) £250.00

Option to purchase fee (Z) £5.00

X+y+z = tOTAL CHARGE FOR CREDIT © £3712.30

T+C Total amount payable £12995.30

 

Some of the figures do not add up and the company is under a different name.

any help would be very gratefully accepted.

 

Check if they have charged interest on the Documentation Fee and the Option to purchase fee. If they have done so the agreement is unenforceable under Section 9(4) of the Consumer Credit Act which reads, “for the purposes of this act, an item entering into the total charge for credit shall not be treated as credit even though time is allowed for its payment” By adding interest they are treating the fees as credit. Welcome are notorious for ths.

It is also a good idea to check that the interest calculations are correct and are as stated. There is a small amount of leeway allowd but any large differences make the agreement unenforcable as the terms are mis-stated.

[bh2362]

hi i was wondering if anyone can answer a question for me....

 

if an agreement does not contain

 

"your rights"

you have the right to cancal this agreement"

 

is it cancelable????

 

Thanks

[croc]

Hi, I was also wondering - If a CCA has an agreement number or reference number which does not match an account number or a credit card number, is it still enforceable?

[MASAMP8]

I have a good one and maybe someone can advise ??

I was being contacted by a company called Credit Solutions Ltd on behalf of Barclaycard and on the 25th of June 09 I sent to them the template letter requesting my credit agreement and the £1.00 cheque.

Never received a dicky bird from them regarding my request but then again got a standard letter from them saying something like !! we can make arrangements for you to repay over extended period !! ect but no mention about the agreement.

So on the 15 September 09 I sent the next template letter saying they failed to supply my agreement ect but still no reply at all.

Now today 30th October 09 I got a very snotty letter from a different company called Moorecroft Debt Recovery Ltd on behalf of Barclaycard stating intended litigation before legal proceeding ?? and even states We believe that this letter fulfils this requirement even if is not actually read by you.

So now what do I do ?? do I have to start over again and send another £1.00 to another company asking again for a copy of my agreement ??

Any sugestions welcome

[davefirewalker]

DCA's are usually only AGENTS acting for the original creditor. Unless there has been an assignment they cannot act on their own behalf,

 

Most of them are pussies, especially moorcroft. i could build a rather nice bonfire with all the various threats of legal action I've had from them

 

ignore them and go for the original creditor. or the cycle will continue

 

Dave

[hellsbells1805]

Your original s78 request still stands. You need to write to Moorcroft and point out that you made a request to Barclaycard for a copy of the agreement as is your statutory right under the Consumer Credit Act, Barclaycard have failed to respond. While they are in breach of S78 they are not entitled to enforce the debt and passing the debt to a collecting agent and threatening litigation is a very clear breach. You could also point out that should they issue court proceedings you have grounds for defence as Barclaycard are in breach of S78(6) (I think that is the right one PM me and remind me and I will check the CCA on Monday or google it) and S127(3) does not allow the court to make a judgment unless a copy of the credit agreement exists, signed by the debtor and creditor bearing the prescribed terms as laid out in S61.

[davefirewalker]

hellsbells

 

in a perfect world you may be right, but this site is littered with people who had "an iron clad case" and lost.

 

the lenders and dca's are a bunch of %&??!! and bend the law to suit themselves, and we have very little recourse.

 

things arent always black and white, a lot depends on what judge you get and his or her predujices

 

a case in point -------> http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/191784-shakespeare62-nastybank.html

 

Masamps

 

a simple letter to moorcroft, or any of the other dca's will send them packing, or just ignore them is fine too they usually wont do anything let alone make a personal call. you need to concentrate on the main creditor.

 

Barclaycard are one of the more difficult ones, they prevaricate and send you the bare minimum of information. I am in the middle of a battle with them at the moment, however......that said I have won twice with them PPI and charges on another Credit card....(they must hate me by now)

 

The thing is BC have to send you a copy of the the agreement. what you will get though may not be what you expected. ie not a photocopy of it but a "reconstructed version" or a simple card carrier.

 

while they are in default you may with-hold payments....but they will still report this to the cra's (unlawfully)

 

have a look at ----> why you shouldnt use section 77/78 CCA 1974 if you want the signed agreement - The Consumer Forums

 

but before you do anything make sure you understand what you are doing.

 

rgds

 

Dave

[hellsbells1805]

While I agree that this a lot depends on the judge in many cases, The county courts are bound by High Court decisions and these types of cases are often won on appeal. A bit of homework into relevant case law always helps.

I do this all day every day for a living and a letter to Moorcroft and most DCAs will make them send the debt back to the original creditor and get them off of your back.

[mystery1]

hi i was wondering if anyone can answer a question for me....

 

if an agreement does not contain

 

"your rights"

you have the right to cancal this agreement"

 

is it cancelable????

 

Thanks

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/217001-cancellation-rights-plus-discussion.html

 

M1

[Guest Persha]

Hi - this may be a help to some of you - I have been disputing a debt with Littlewoods due the excessive amount of charges they have placed on my account, this has been going on for a couple of years. Got a letter from Lowell Financial as they hve taken over the debt, sent them the letter requesting that they send me a copy of my credit agreement in which they had 12 days to reply as got this response back:

 

We refer to your request for a copy of the original credit agreement for this account.

 

After liaising with Shop Direct in an effort to obtain this document we have been advised that it is no longer available due to the length of time since the account was opened.

 

As this time we have closed your file and will not make any further contact with your concerning payment against this account unless the copy of the agreement is received.

 

By the way the amount of the alleged debt was £2089.33 so keep fighting people it does work at times.

[citizenB]

That is good news Persha:)

[miss money worry]

hi can anyone tell me how to start a new post, related to this topic but dont want to tread on anyones toes!!

[mystery1]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=175

 

 

M1

[alen27]

Hi - this may be a help to some of you - I have been disputing a debt with Littlewoods due the excessive amount of charges they have placed on my account, this has been going on for a couple of years. Got a letter from Lowell Financial as they hve taken over the debt, sent them the letter requesting that they send me a copy of my credit agreement in which they had 12 days to reply as got this response back:

 

We refer to your request for a copy of the original credit agreement for this account.

 

After liaising with Shop Direct in an effort to obtain this document we have been advised that it is no longer available due to the length of time since the account was opened.

 

As this time we have closed your file and will not make any further contact with your concerning payment against this account unless the copy of the agreement is received.

 

By the way the amount of the alleged debt was £2089.33 so keep fighting people it does work at times.

 

I had exactly the same reply as above from Lowell Financial however 3 days Later I got a letter for the same debt from a different dca acting on behalf of

Lowell Financial

[Guest Persha]

If you send them the same letter asking for a "true copy" - no company can enforce the debt unless they have a copy of your agreement, so if they new dca are unable to produce it they cannot enforce it.

[Bigdebtor]

Has anyone ever known of anyone succeeding in getting a REFUND of previous payments made against an unenforceable CCA?

 

BD

[DT&FE]

I can't go into the details because it is still on going but I have been informed by a solicitor (who has agreed to take the case on) that the law permits for the repayment of monies paid towards an unenforceable debt.

 

HOWEVER it is difficult and can be a protracted process, the only benefit is that in the current economic climate the last thing banks want is their name in lights regarding taking money that wasn't 'legally' theirs.

 

I am lucky and have found a solicitor that thinks he can win and make a name for himself!!! I will let you all know what happens and will make a donation to the site as it was because of advice from caggers that gave me the confidence to do battle.

[Sparky Mallet]

I've requested several companies to supply the agreements under the CCA along with the £1 fee each and have given more time than is necessary for their responses. None have supplied an enforceable agreement therefore I have written to them challenging the lack of agreement or the unenforceable paperwork supplied.

 

I have done all of this by use of template letters from this site.

 

My latest letters refer to their breaches etc. and state that I will be forced to report them to Trading Standards and contact the OFT due to breaches of the OFT Debt Collection Guidance unless they either supply the enforceable agreement or write off the alleged debt.

 

I have either received confirmation that they are unable to enforce the debt or no communication from the others at all.

 

Am I likely to get any of the debts written off or should I go ahead with contacting Trading Standards and the OFT at this point?

 

If all debts are unenforceable but details remain on my credit file for the next 6 years, I have been advised to consider bankruptcy since my poor health has resulted in me being on minimal benefits with no other income, assets or savings.

[Peterbard]

I can't go into the details because it is still on going but I have been informed by a solicitor (who has agreed to take the case on) that the law permits for the repayment of monies paid towards an unenforceable debt.

 

HOWEVER it is difficult and can be a protracted process, the only benefit is that in the current economic climate the last thing banks want is their name in lights regarding taking money that wasn't 'legally' theirs.

 

I am lucky and have found a solicitor that thinks he can win and make a name for himself!!! I will let you all know what happens and will make a donation to the site as it was because of advice from caggers that gave me the confidence to do battle.

 

HI

 

Be careful here.

 

Just because an agreement is not enforceble under the cca does not mean that the money is not owed, or that the creditor does not have title to the debt.

 

The courts are very clear about this if however you can show that the agreement was incorrectly executed and missled you about the amount of interest or other charges that you incurred you may be able to sue for re-embursement of these.

 

Cheers

peter

[tinkerbell20]

Liverpool Daily Post.co.uk - News - Liverpool News - LDP Legal: Businessman who had credit card debts made unenforceable wades into the consumer credit debate

[kissylou81]

Hi

can anyone clear this up for me please???

i requested a true copy of credit card agreement on 6th june this year to barclaycard. i as advised that this copy has to be signed and must be an original copy. Barclaycard took over from morgan stanley whom i took the credit card out with originally. Barclaycard sent me a copy of their terms and conditions, no signature on 17th june 2009. At the top of this letter it states ' these are the terms and conditions of an agreement between us (Barclays Bank PLC, Barclaycard Centre, Northampton NN4 7SG) and you, the person who signed the agreement' s

So where's the signed agreement???

 

is this debt enforcable. I sent futher letters stating they have not complied etc and the harrassment letter. Six months later i'm still being pursued for the debt and Calder Financial are now contacting me for the debt.

I actually answered their cal this morning and asked them what info Barclaycard have passed on and they replied saying they had sent me the executed agreement under s 78 of the consumer credit act and that they don't need to send a signed copy as when a consumer takes a credit card out no signature is required???

 

Thanks

x